RE: http://www.military.com/forums/0,15240,182119,00.html

THERE IS NO DOUBT IN MY MIND THAT THIS STORY IS TRUE!I WOULD URGE PEOPLE TO READ(SPECIAL TASKS)BY NKVD LT.GENERAL PAVEL SUDOPLATOV,WHO AT LENGTH WRITES ABOUT SOVIET ATOMIC SPYING!AS FOR THE SPY ID,I THINK IT WAS(ROBERT OPPENHEIMER)!HIS WIFE(KITTY)WAS A OPEN MEMBER OF THE CPUSA AND I THINK HE WAS A SECRET MEMBER TILL THE DAY HE DIED!I REST MY CASE!

one man could cause so much death and pain......he should have been shot!

Betcha the spy was another of those Liberal, moronic leftist thinkers who hated freedom and felt they should be the ones to rule and dictate the direction of the world because of their "superior intellect" and "progressive" concepts.

Noted and hated spies David Greenglass, Klaus Fuchs, and Julius and Ethel Rosenberg all considered themselves to be Liberal and Progressive thinkers with intellect superior to the rest of us to "cling to Judeo-Christian values and morals." BTW, these spes were Democrats or alligned with them.

History teaches us to be beware of those claiming to be Progressive, Liberal, and smarter than the rest of us and thus dismissive and above the need for moral values including what is right and wrong. That is why they so easily betrayed us and our country.

quote:

Originally posted by machgunner:
Betcha the spy was another of those Liberal, moronic leftist thinkers who hated freedom and felt they should be the ones to rule and dictate the direction of the world because of their "superior intellect" and "progressive" concepts.

Noted and hated spies David Greenglass, Klaus Fuchs, and Julius and Ethel Rosenberg all considered themselves to be Liberal and Progressive thinkers with intellect superior to the rest of us to "cling to Judeo-Christian values and morals." BTW, these spes were Democrats or alligned with them.

History teaches us to be beware of those claiming to be Progressive, Liberal, and smarter than the rest of us and thus dismissive and above the need for moral values including what is right and wrong. That is why they so easily betrayed us and our country.

As opposed to those who spyed for the Nazi's?

Openheimer was in no position to reveal the "secret" of the Hydorgen bomb, since he was no longer part of the projects to make bombs.

As we now know, the secret of making the bomb, is in two phases...

1. The realisation that it could be done. This was the primary "secret." In other words, it you can make enough plutonium or highly enriched uranium, so unstable, that placing a certain amount of the stuff in the same place at the same time, a nuclear reaction will take place.

2. The second part of the equation is the ability and desire to spend the enourmous amounts of money to develop the industrial base in order to make the material.

Dave

Oppenheimer never attempted to conceal the fact that he was a communist. Back in the New Deal era, being a communist was a mark of distinction. At the time, there was widespread advocacy among the "New Dealers" for the idea that the United states should emulate the Soviet Union's economic policies as a means to break the Depression. Oppenheimer probably had a sense of what was going on; but he did not have to do anything himself to faciliate the transfer of nuclear secrets nor materials.

Oppenheimer hired a disproportionate number (relative to the supply of qualified and able scientists and engineers) of Jews who were also communists. There were literally hundreds of them. These people were working for Zionism and Communism as well as for the defeat of Nazism; and they wanted Americans to turn to socialism at least. Many believed that it would be dangerous for this super weapon to be kept exclusively in the hands of a "anti-semitic/capitalist/imperialist" country (their views), like the United States.

The secrets of the bomb -as well as significant quantities of material- were being transferred to the Zionists as quickly as they were to the Soviets. Teller, himself a communist sympathetizing Jew (We just call them "left-wing liberal democrats" today.), might have been the link himself. In 1957, he met with Israeli scientists, who demonstrated to him that they had all the information needed to make the H-bomb; but they needed help with the construction of the reactor. But he did not report this -at least officially- to the U.S. Government. This help was provided by the French; but where and how did the French get the expertise to do this?

For those wishing to know more of this in detail, I suggest that you read the book by Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan on espionage activities in the United States. It was published just before his death. I myself have not read the book; but watched a C-Span TV interview of Senator Moynihan about the book and what he wrote therein.

This is old news.

The declassified Venona Project revealed that there were 4 spies working at Los Alamos. All of them were senior scientists and engineers except for the one machinist, Sgt Green.

The spies were privy to all the secrets and there was a direct connection to Soviet Scientists. The Soviet scientists submitted lists of questions they wanted answered.

The main problem the Soviets had was lack of engineering talent to build the equipment they needed.

Oppenheimer was a SECRET member of the Communist Party, but the US Army already knew about that and didn't care.

Oppenhimer was not a spy, but he was aware of other people who were spying and he would not tell the Army who they were. He did warn the Army that spying was taking place and gave them ideas on how to stop it, yet without revealing who was involved. He waited some time before coming forward with this information.

As to Israel, they got their weapons grade uranium from South Africa, which had developed a refining process that was far superior (cheaper and faster) that the process the US knows about.

South Africa long ago dismantled their nuclear program (after they drove Cuba out of Angola).

Venona disclosed that Julius Rosenberg was a spy, but had little involvement with atomic secrets. He did give vast amounts of information to the Soviets about jets and high performance aircraft research. The Soviets put this research into practice before we did and this resulted in the stalemate over Korea, where we did not have air superiority because of Rosenburg.

Ethel knew everything that was going on, but because of physical incapacity played the passive role of a supportive wife and did not actively engage in espionage, except to offer a few helful ideas to the KGB (according to their communications).

quote:

Originally posted by Grachus:

The secret of making the bomb is in two phases:
1. The realisation that it could be done.
2. The ability and desire to invest.

Dave is right. That's why every nation that has seriously attempted to build nuclear weapons, orbit satellites, build jet aircraft, create a chip manufacturing industruy, or install internet infrastructure ... has succeeded.

China understands this perfectly well, and in recent years, China's ability and desire to invest has greatly exceeded America's. They are whipping America economically, not by espionage, but by a focused national vision, commitment, and investment.

I append a post from another thread, that applies here too:

quote:

Originally posted by usmc_family:

... Of the fourteen members of China's ruling politburo, guess how many of them are lawyers? Zero. Politicians? Zero. Preachers? Zero. Bankers? Zero. Trained engineers? All fourteen.

In all of American history, we have never had a non-ideological competitor like China.

It's still early days, but right now, China's holding a trillion American dollars, a massive trade surplus, a thriving manufacturing sector, and is competing as an equal in technology and science.

And by the way, guess how many heads-of state President Hu Jintao of China has personally visited during the past eight years? Or had the head-of-state personally visit him in China? Answer: all of them. Every single head-of-state in the world has been systematically visited by China's President Hu.



And from all of them, President Hu has come away with an advantageous trade agreement.

These are mighty sobering numbers. America had better get its act together. If the only choice is between the failed ideology of the left, versus the failed ideology of the right, then we are sc*w*ed. The Obama administration has to create a vigorous third alternative, or else, watch our country continue to slide gently into the abyss.

It's fun to play the following game: (1) Pick any leader of any nation of the world. (2) Use Google Image to search for a picture of that leader with Hu Jintao. (3) Not only will you find that picture, it will be posed exactly like the above picture of Hu Jintao with George Bush.

These pictures (hundreds of them), and the disciplined strategy for China's rise that they record, establish Hu Jintao as one of China's greatest leaders ... and I have to say, that IMHO, Pres. Hu's foresight, commitment, and discipline are wholly admirable.

Note that there is nothing "secret" about any of the above. Indeed, the Chinese saying "Deceive the sky to cross the ocean" (meaning, the subtlest strategies are those exposed to plain view) describes China's strategy of "deceiving the sky" perfectly.

What prevents America from adopting a similar "deceive the sky" strategy?

Nothing .. except possibly a chronic shortage of foresight, commitment, and discipline on the part of America's leaders ... and a chronic over-supply of denialism, foolish ideology-driven policies, excuse-making, outright corruption, and willful ignorance.

The spying during the Mahattan Project was not confined to the scientist on the project, as some admitted with thier dying breathes that they had passed info to the soviets in order to allow the world powers to have the info to keep one power from using the weapons.
At the end of the soviet empire, KBG files were opened and revealed that there were 2 of FDR's cabinet also passing info on to the soviets during the project and after. Also that this info was passed throughout WWII. The code names given to these 2 Prersidential Cabinet members also gave a physical description of the men and the descritions were so exact that there was no doubt that these member of FDR's cabinet were in fact spies for the "Progressives", the name given at the time for members of the American communist Party.When I hear someone say that such info is the product of "conspiracy theories", I am reminded that all throughtout history "conspiracies" inside governments, even monarchies, has been the order of the day among the leaders of all countries. There is no such thing as total secrecy of programs in any nation including our own, especailly our own.

quote:

Originally posted by DEANEGILMOUR:
The spying during the Mahattan Project was not confined to the scientist on the project, as some admitted with thier dying breathes that they had passed info to the soviets in order to allow the world powers to have the info to keep one power from using the weapons.
At the end of the soviet empire, KBG files were opened and revealed that there were 2 of FDR's cabinet also passing info on to the soviets during the project and after. Also that this info was passed throughout WWII. The code names given to these 2 Prersidential Cabinet members also gave a physical description of the men and the descritions were so exact that there was no doubt that these member of FDR's cabinet were in fact spies for the "Progressives", the name given at the time for members of the American communist Party.When I hear someone say that such info is the product of "conspiracy theories", I am reminded that all throughtout history "conspiracies" inside governments, even monarchies, has been the order of the day among the leaders of all countries. There is no such thing as total secrecy of programs in any nation including our own, especailly our own.

None of FDR's cabinet were ever "implicated" as being spies. We have the Verona intercepts to go by, and this objective source has never reported such acts.

Those who claim that KGB files were opened up to their "private" viewing are the same who told us that that there were more POW's held by the Vietnamese then are actually MIA's. And they are the same source (Daniel Pipes, et al) who reported the the POW's who were released all cooperated with the Viernmase and betrayed America.

Please post your source for such serious allegations.

Dave

I'll post evidence of China's serious, modern endeavor to gain technical advantage.

And this claim is no bluff ... here is a bibliography of 1,987 recent articles from China on large-scale system simulation:

http://faculty.washington.edu/sidles/QSE_is_in_NP/QSE_CJSS.pdf

While this forum is rehashing left-versus-right political battles that are completely irrelevant to America's strategic and economic challenges, China is moving full-speed-ahead with an in-the-open strategy for achieving global technological and economic primacy.

It's time for the cold warriors on this forum, and in both political parties, to wake up ... the rules of the "Great Game" have changed ... the old battles have become irrelevant.

It's now necessary to "learn and adapt" to America's present-day economic, military, and strategic realities and challenges.

Because "the world is Iraq" -- America's prosperity and security is now all about our nation's combined capability for war-fighting, nation-building, and peace-making.

We're still #1 at the war-fighting ... but America's nation-building and peace-making capability, both at-home and abroad, has degraded to unacceptably low levels.

quote:

Originally posted by usmc_family:
I'll post evidence of China's serious, modern endeavor to gain technical advantage.

And this claim is no bluff ... here is a bibliography of 1,987 recent articles from China on large-scale system simulation:

http://faculty.washington.edu/sidles/QSE_is_in_NP/QSE_CJSS.pdf

While this forum is rehashing left-versus-right political battles that are completely irrelevant to America's strategic and economic challenges, China is moving full-speed-ahead with an in-the-open strategy for achieving global technological and economic primacy.

It's time for the cold warriors on this forum, and in both political parties, to wake up ... the rules of the "Great Game" have changed ... the old battles have become irrelevant.

It's now necessary to "learn and adapt" to America's present-day economic, military, and strategic realities and challenges.

Because "the world is Iraq" -- America's prosperity and security is now all about our nation's combined capability for war-fighting, nation-building, and peace-making.

We're still #1 at the war-fighting ... but America's nation-building and peace-making capability, both at-home and abroad, has degraded to unacceptably low levels.

You allude to unity and while on thread after thread, you call yourself a "compassionate conservative" and allow for no other opinion than your own...
You say that the "cold warriors" should play the "new game", yet you have never served a day in uniform...
You do have an interesting perspective, don't you?...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

quote:

Originally posted by SUNLINER81:

quote:

Originally posted by usmc_family:
I'll post evidence of China's serious, modern endeavor to gain technical advantage.

And this claim is no bluff ... here is a bibliography of 1,987 recent articles from China on large-scale system simulation:

http://faculty.washington.edu/sidles/QSE_is_in_NP/QSE_CJSS.pdf

While this forum is rehashing left-versus-right political battles that are completely irrelevant to America's strategic and economic challenges, China is moving full-speed-ahead with an in-the-open strategy for achieving global technological and economic primacy.

It's time for the cold warriors on this forum, and in both political parties, to wake up ... the rules of the "Great Game" have changed ... the old battles have become irrelevant.

It's now necessary to "learn and adapt" to America's present-day economic, military, and strategic realities and challenges.

Because "the world is Iraq" -- America's prosperity and security is now all about our nation's combined capability for war-fighting, nation-building, and peace-making.

We're still #1 at the war-fighting ... but America's nation-building and peace-making capability, both at-home and abroad, has degraded to unacceptably low levels.

You allude to unity and while on thread after thread, you call yourself a "compassionate conservative" and allow for no other opinion than your own...
You say that the "cold warriors" should play the "new game", yet you have never served a day in uniform...
You do have an interesting perspective, don't you?...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

Last time I checked quite a few Americans who never served in uniform made great military decision makers.

And while USMC is a strong advocate of his opinions, many of which I agree with, often enough disagree, I will say point blank that he's less arrogant than you, and less arrogant than me.

Or didn't you notice that you are a very opinionated person? (Which is not a criticism, since it would also be a criticism of me... )

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by Grachus:

quote:

Originally posted by SUNLINER81:

quote:

Originally posted by usmc_family:
I'll post evidence of China's serious, modern endeavor to gain technical advantage.

And this claim is no bluff ... here is a bibliography of 1,987 recent articles from China on large-scale system simulation:

http://faculty.washington.edu/sidles/QSE_is_in_NP/QSE_CJSS.pdf

While this forum is rehashing left-versus-right political battles that are completely irrelevant to America's strategic and economic challenges, China is moving full-speed-ahead with an in-the-open strategy for achieving global technological and economic primacy.

It's time for the cold warriors on this forum, and in both political parties, to wake up ... the rules of the "Great Game" have changed ... the old battles have become irrelevant.

It's now necessary to "learn and adapt" to America's present-day economic, military, and strategic realities and challenges.

Because "the world is Iraq" -- America's prosperity and security is now all about our nation's combined capability for war-fighting, nation-building, and peace-making.

We're still #1 at the war-fighting ... but America's nation-building and peace-making capability, both at-home and abroad, has degraded to unacceptably low levels.

You allude to unity and while on thread after thread, you call yourself a "compassionate conservative" and allow for no other opinion than your own...
You say that the "cold warriors" should play the "new game", yet you have never served a day in uniform...
You do have an interesting perspective, don't you?...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

Last time I checked quite a few Americans who never served in uniform made great military decision makers.

And while USMC is a strong advocate of his opinions, many of which I agree with, often enough disagree, I will say point blank that he's less arrogant than you, and less arrogant than me.

Or didn't you notice that you are a very opinionated person? (Which is not a criticism, since it would also be a criticism of me... )

Dave

Yes, I fully admit, I have opinions...
You also know, that I can be "persuaded" to change my view point on a subject...
As I have been, concerning a "national health care system" and on the point of "decriminalizing certain illegal drugs", to put an end to the "war" on our borders and to destroy the "drug cartels"...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

quote:

Originally posted by Grachus:

quote:

Originally posted by SUNLINER81:

quote:

Originally posted by usmc_family:
I'll post evidence of China's serious, modern endeavor to gain technical advantage.

And this claim is no bluff ... here is a bibliography of 1,987 recent articles from China on large-scale system simulation:

http://faculty.washington.edu/sidles/QSE_is_in_NP/QSE_CJSS.pdf

While this forum is rehashing left-versus-right political battles that are completely irrelevant to America's strategic and economic challenges, China is moving full-speed-ahead with an in-the-open strategy for achieving global technological and economic primacy.

It's time for the cold warriors on this forum, and in both political parties, to wake up ... the rules of the "Great Game" have changed ... the old battles have become irrelevant.

It's now necessary to "learn and adapt" to America's present-day economic, military, and strategic realities and challenges.

Because "the world is Iraq" -- America's prosperity and security is now all about our nation's combined capability for war-fighting, nation-building, and peace-making.

We're still #1 at the war-fighting ... but America's nation-building and peace-making capability, both at-home and abroad, has degraded to unacceptably low levels.

You allude to unity and while on thread after thread, you call yourself a "compassionate conservative" and allow for no other opinion than your own...
You say that the "cold warriors" should play the "new game", yet you have never served a day in uniform...
You do have an interesting perspective, don't you?...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

Last time I checked quite a few Americans who never served in uniform made great military decision makers.

And while USMC is a strong advocate of his opinions, many of which I agree with, often enough disagree, I will say point blank that he's less arrogant than you, and less arrogant than me.

Or didn't you notice that you are a very opinionated person? (Which is not a criticism, since it would also be a criticism of me... )

Dave

Other than FDR, who served as Secretary of the Navy, who else?...
Also, remember the state of our armed forces, leading up to and including Pearl Harbor...
Over aged ammunition that came apart in the loading machines at Pearl, aircraft that were outdated at Pearl...
Electronic systems that should have been funded and installed years before, just coming into use, case in point...
The Opana Point radar site that tracked the attacking forces into Pearl and no one would pay attention, to the "new" equipment and the operators...
Yup, FDR wanted the United States to be the "arsenal of democracy", so long as it was sold to others and not to our military...
HISTORY SHOULD NOT HAVE TO REPEAT ITSELF!...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

quote:

Originally posted by Migbuster:

"" is what denialist conservatives have been doing for a generation.

I see that Microsoft just this week off-shored to Ireland another $18 billion-dollar software operation. That Intellectual Property was created by engineers trained in the American educational system ... Microsoft said "Thank you very much", loaded up the profits, and off-shored the cash and jobs to Irish tax haven.

quote:

Microsoft to hide Irish Tax Haven data of subsidiaries
that have saved it billions of dollars in US taxes
"http://www.finfacts.ie/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_10005150.shtml"

US software giant Microsoft has taken steps to shield from the public, the value of Tax Haven transactions of two Irish-registered subsidiaries that have enabled it to save billions of dollars in US taxes.

Day by day, the American balance of trade slides deeper into the dumper ... and the reaction of denialist conservatives is ...

" "

Yeah, someone is derelict-in-duty, all right. Derelict in brains and foresight, too.

"Blame America's troubles on communist spies" is the most moronic far-right ad-campaign yet. Because our adversaries have realized that one tax lawyer, skilled in off-shoring jobs and profits, can harm America far more than 100 communist spies.

It's time for thoughtful conservatives to wake up to this same reality.

oh hell you would be surprised how many spies are in this country even today..... there are many many Israelis thats for sure... but they are here to help us....

quote:

Originally posted by outlaws93:
oh hell you would be surprised how many spies are in this country even today..... there are many many Israelis thats for sure... but they are here to help us....

And this information was obtained in your many conversations with them? Good God outlaw, how many people in high places do you know?

quote:

Originally posted by SUNLINER81:

quote:

Originally posted by Grachus:

quote:

Originally posted by SUNLINER81:

quote:

Originally posted by usmc_family:
I'll post evidence of China's serious, modern endeavor to gain technical advantage.

And this claim is no bluff ... here is a bibliography of 1,987 recent articles from China on large-scale system simulation:

http://faculty.washington.edu/sidles/QSE_is_in_NP/QSE_CJSS.pdf

While this forum is rehashing left-versus-right political battles that are completely irrelevant to America's strategic and economic challenges, China is moving full-speed-ahead with an in-the-open strategy for achieving global technological and economic primacy.

It's time for the cold warriors on this forum, and in both political parties, to wake up ... the rules of the "Great Game" have changed ... the old battles have become irrelevant.

It's now necessary to "learn and adapt" to America's present-day economic, military, and strategic realities and challenges.

Because "the world is Iraq" -- America's prosperity and security is now all about our nation's combined capability for war-fighting, nation-building, and peace-making.

We're still #1 at the war-fighting ... but America's nation-building and peace-making capability, both at-home and abroad, has degraded to unacceptably low levels.

You allude to unity and while on thread after thread, you call yourself a "compassionate conservative" and allow for no other opinion than your own...
You say that the "cold warriors" should play the "new game", yet you have never served a day in uniform...
You do have an interesting perspective, don't you?...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

Last time I checked quite a few Americans who never served in uniform made great military decision makers.

And while USMC is a strong advocate of his opinions, many of which I agree with, often enough disagree, I will say point blank that he's less arrogant than you, and less arrogant than me.

Or didn't you notice that you are a very opinionated person? (Which is not a criticism, since it would also be a criticism of me... )

Dave

Other than FDR, who served as Secretary of the Navy, who else?...
Also, remember the state of our armed forces, leading up to and including Pearl Harbor...
Over aged ammunition that came apart in the loading machines at Pearl, aircraft that were outdated at Pearl...
Electronic systems that should have been funded and installed years before, just coming into use, case in point...
The Opana Point radar site that tracked the attacking forces into Pearl and no one would pay attention, to the "new" equipment and the operators...
Yup, FDR wanted the United States to be the "arsenal of democracy", so long as it was sold to others and not to our military...
HISTORY SHOULD NOT HAVE TO REPEAT ITSELF!...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

Lincohn, you forget him somehow? And while I'm not a great fan of Wilson, he did a great job of managing the war effort.

And the Mexican War, while a lousy war if ever there was one, was run by Polk, who never served as well.

FDR of course tried his best to prepare us for War. He was as you must know, fought tooth and nail by the opposition. Even raising the size of the Army passed by only one vote.

Are you seriously going to criticise FDR when today, after almost seven years of war, we have to buy bullets in Europe?

You're kidding?

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by Ol_Doc:

quote:

Originally posted by outlaws93:
oh hell you would be surprised how many spies are in this country even today..... there are many many Israelis thats for sure... but they are here to help us....

And this information was obtained in your many conversations with them? Good God outlaw, how many people in high places do you know?

you would be surprised....hell i even met like 4 different presidents.... most as a kid tho...