RE: http://www.military.com/forums/0,15240,178970,00.html

Should have had a couple of Marines on board - those 50s wouldn`t have been crusted over with seawater.

A sad event in US history. I think the skipper and men were deserves our respect and honor.





Check out the Pueblo's web site, Very interesting!

“http://www.navyct.com/img_sites/pueblo_awards.jpg”

______________________________________________________________________
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quote:

Originally posted by 2062016:
RE: http://www.military.com/forums/0,15240,178970,00.html

Should have had a couple of Marines on board - those 50s wouldn`t have been crusted over with seawater.

What a ridiculous statement. When I was cruising on the Anchorage, the Marines weren't any better than the sailors about keeping seawater off their 50s.

Grow up. Your branch of service is not the only one capable of heroism or competence. Your fanboyism reminds me of the things junior high students say, when they obviously haven't a clue what they're talking about.

Stick to the story.

it time to sing:

But, at heart:
I Wouldn't Give A Bean
To Be A Fancy Pants Marine
I'd Rather Be A
Dog Face Soldier Like I Am

I Wouldn't Trade My Old OD's
For All The Navy's Dungarees
For I'm The Walking Pride
Of Uncle Sam

On Army Posters That I Read
It Says "Be All That You Can"
So They're Tearing Me Down
To Build Me Over Again

I'm Just A Dog Face Soldier
With A Rifle On My Shoulder
And I Eat Raw Meat
For Breakfast E'V'RY Day

So Feed Me Ammunition
Keep Me In Third Division
Your Dog Face Soldier's A-Okay

quote:

Originally posted by freakzilla60:

quote:

Originally posted by 2062016:
RE: http://www.military.com/forums/0,15240,178970,00.html

Should have had a couple of Marines on board - those 50s wouldn`t have been crusted over with seawater.

What a ridiculous statement. When I was cruising on the Anchorage, the Marines weren't any better than the sailors about keeping seawater off their 50s.

Grow up. Your branch of service is not the only one capable of heroism or competence. Your fanboyism reminds me of the things junior high students say, when they obviously haven't a clue what they're talking about.

Stick to the story.

Three things,
1.
I did not say Marines are more capable keeping weapons clean.I am saying that the weapons would have been operable and ready for use if they were Marine weapons.

2 "haven`t a clue what your talking about"
Yes I do: The quickest way to get into deep sh**
in the USMC is to have a dirty weapon.

3. "Stick to the story"
Line 30 in the article:
"50 caliber machine gun was crusted over with salt water"

I have the higest respect for the men of the Pueblo. I was not attacking the other services.

The problem with what happened to The Pueblo was in the times. We couldn't mount a rescue without risking all out war with the North, and at that time we were already engaged heavily in Vietnam. You had to have lived then to know the weight of the problem.

In 1975 a ship was taken by the Cambodians named "The USS Mayaguez", but our troops weren't bogged down in Vietnam any longer and Gerald Ford responded by sending in the Marines. They rescued most of those guys and got the ship back. I voted for the man because of the actions he took, but it cost a lot of lives and that whole operation was in fact a mess, with several Marines actually LOST and believed Executed by the Cambodians.

I don't think it was even a Navy ship either. It was a very a strange time in U.S. History.

You're correct, it was a civilian merchant vessel. Now that those guys (The Cambodians,Kymer Roughe etc.) are "unemployed" they turned that part of the world into a pirate's paradise. Might even give the Somali's a run for the money.
I wish Godspeed to any and all that served with the Pueblo when they were captured. Although I didn't make it over to that part of the world until May of '69, it's always the dumb___ REMF who controlled their operations who should have received the demotion, reprimand or whatever. The guy probably got promoted and found a desk to divit in NSA or the Pentagon.
Is it too much to expect that when we send someone on a similar operation today that we might provide them with the capability of being able to destroy classified material with more than just a stove? Don't forget there was a Navy P3 Orion (or something similar to that) that met with the same fate that the crew of the Pueblo did, and I believe it was during Clinton's or Bush's watch.They too had a hard time getting rid of classified material.
Thankfully their "pawn time" was not as long as the time of the Pueblo's crew.
BTW, for the young know it all who recommended Marines would have kept the .50's cleaner, it doesn't make a tinkers damn even if they were. Rambo was in Sweden when this happened and just so you can learn some real world stuff, go find the spec's on the North Korean gunboats that were sent out to intercept the Pueblo.
Their main task was to "Intercept" for propaganda and intell purposes, but don't think for a minute that the Pueblo couldn't have become an instant artificial reef if they couldn't board it easily.
To the crew of the Pueblo from a Vietnam Vet, "Welcome home Brothers!"

quote:
Originally posted by freakzilla60:

quote:
Originally posted by 2062016:
RE: http://www.military.com/forums/0,15240,178970,00.html

Should have had a couple of Marines on board - those 50s wouldn`t have been crusted over with seawater.

What a ridiculous statement. When I was cruising on the Anchorage, the Marines weren't any better than the sailors about keeping seawater off their 50s.

Grow up. Your branch of service is not the only one capable of heroism or competence. Your fanboyism reminds me of the things junior high students say, when they obviously haven't a clue what they're talking about.

Stick to the story.


Three things,
1.
I did not say Marines are more capable keeping weapons clean.I am saying that the weapons would have been operable and ready for use if they were Marine weapons.

2 "haven`t a clue what your talking about"
Yes I do: The quickest way to get into deep sh**
in the USMC is to have a dirty weapon.

3. "Stick to the story"
Line 30 in the article:
"50 caliber machine gun was crusted over with salt water"

I have the higest respect for the men of the Pueblo. I was not attacking the other services.


2062016

You're highly mistaken , read the article posted by OldArmyWOPA. The article has quotes from 2 Marine Seargents who were on board the Pueblo when it was captured by the NVA. See what they should have had is a US Army Infantry Platoon on board; they would have affixed bayonets and killed the NVA for trying to step foot on board the vessel.

I served as a Court Report for the Pueblo Court of Inquiry and heard the crews' testimony. The CO said he had only two realistic choices. Scuttle the ship and put the crews in the frigid water, where they would either drown or be captured; or surrender the vessel. There was however a third, that is do what John Paul Jones did - outgunned, out manned, when the Serrapis asked if he would strike his colors, he replied that he had not yet begun to fight. However, that decision did not rest with the crew, it was solely left to the CO. The Pueblo wasnt scuttled but the career of Captain Alexander, was.

I think the commander of the pueblo was playing at beening a spy and thought that the n.koreans wouldn't do any thing.And for such a lightly armed and a ship so slow its almost as if some one really wanted them to be captured???.Are some one was Responable for sending the ship in that close to danger!!! and didn't care or didn't think this through!!!. Yes the capt of the ship should have scuddled the ship!!! And he did not receive any recommendations from his executive officer are any one else???.And apparently the care and maintance of the only weapons on board was sloppy. so the weapons officer and the chief of the division (I think thats what they call it in the navy) should have been held responable!!!. Thats just like right now in Iraq the soldiers that take it upon them selves to kill captured gorillas soldiers are beening tried for it.and found guilty!."But" then again its always easy to point fingers well after the fact. No one knows the night mares and guilt that the capt of the ship has felt thur out the years sense this has happened. And how he feels when he meets or thinks about any one man of his crew!!!.So I say God Bless Him and His Crew For their duty to their country. and may they rest in Peace in the after life!!!.

Those sailors were abandoned. Cmdr. Lloyd Bucker was shafted when he should have been rewarded for saving his men. These guys should have had air cover and the North Koreans blown out of the water. All the best to the Pueblo's crew. Semper Fi, Former Marine

I was stationed at DLIWC at Presidio of Monterey back in 1969. We would frequently go over to the Naval Post-Graduate School for Sunday breakfast, as the food was much better than at DLI.

The former commander of the Pueblo, Lloyd Pete Bucher, was attending a class at the Naval Post Graduate School at that time. One Sunday morning, Bucher came in for breakfast while I was there. He got his breakfast, walked over to a table, sat down - and all the other Navy officers at that table got up and moved to other tables. Bucher sat there alone, in the middle of the room, eating his breakfast. I was told later by a NCO instuctor at the Naval Post-Graduate School that Bucher's classmates and his instructors only spoke to him in the line of duty, and shunned him otherwise, because of his allowing his ship to be captured.

Each Military Installtion, Ship, Plane, Unit, and Person is/are dedicated to the Defense Of The United States Of America Against All Enemies, Foreign And Domestic.

Each Of The Above Named Persons And Intities relies On The People And The Nation Of The United States Of America To Be Just As Diligent In Supporting Them.

America Has Been A Grave Dissapointment, If not Also Being A Danger To Service Men and Women During Each And Every Conflict, Policing Action, and War Since WW II.

Our Heros Should Be Honored, Not Obscured Because A Cowardly Nation Would Not See To It That A Soveriegn War Ship And It's Crew Were Returned Safely To Our Shores.

DW Pranger AT-3 USNR 1965-1971

quote:

Originally posted by Fightdirector:
I was stationed at DLIWC at Presidio of Monterey back in 1969. We would frequently go over to the Naval Post-Graduate School for Sunday breakfast, as the food was much better than at DLI.

The former commander of the Pueblo, Lloyd Pete Bucher, was attending a class at the Naval Post Graduate School at that time. One Sunday morning, Bucher came in for breakfast while I was there. He got his breakfast, walked over to a table, sat down - and all the other Navy officers at that table got up and moved to other tables. Bucher sat there alone, in the middle of the room, eating his breakfast. I was told later by a NCO instuctor at the Naval Post-Graduate School that Bucher's classmates and his instructors only spoke to him in the line of duty, and shunned him otherwise, because of his allowing his ship to be captured.

That's a sad story. What was he meant to do? He was in command of spy ship. He was out gunned for crying out loud. He saved the lives of his crew. I think he did the right thing in this situation. Sure he could have been a martyr but it would have got him nowhere.

Was Willie Bussell on the USS Nashville LPD-13 in the early 80's? I was just asking because I was and his name sounds familiar

I had the honor & pleasure to meet Captain Bucher in 1990 at a dedication service of the VLS & Harpoon Building at FTC San Diego to remember Gunners Mate Alexander Thompson killed while manning his guns defending the USS Liberty (also a AGTR)from an attack by Israeli Forces. It is beleived the cover up of this attack six months prior led to the USS Pueblo attack. Captain Bucher had been ordered to cover his guns and had never been told about the USS Liberty attack. He told me had he been aware of it, things may have been very different. Suggest everyone read "Assault on the Liberty" by James Ennes before you judge the crew of the Pueblo. I still have my signed copy & Building dedication program signed by Captain Bucher, Captain McGonagle, and several crewmen as well as PO Thompson's family.

Sorry - Marines, Army or Navy . . whatever branch was "there" - the mission was flawed from the start - an under-armed UNPROTECTED slow moving ship was placed in a position it could not outrun or outgun. Had the Captain pulled a "John Paul Jones" we would have lost many fine young brothers and sisters for nothing . . . look at the facts, it was a stupid idea to place it so close to REAL danger without cover and without the means to defend itself or dispose of it's classified material - do you REALLY think the ship had any means to "scuttle" itself efficiently if it could not even SHRED DOCUMENTS? I think we all really know that it was a **** poor mission designed with inadequate resource and thought given to the possible results . . . a classic SNAFU with built-in fall guy.

quote:

Originally posted by ANT6184:
quote:
Originally posted by freakzilla60:

quote:
Originally posted by 2062016:
RE: http://www.military.com/forums/0,15240,178970,00.html

Should have had a couple of Marines on board - those 50s wouldn`t have been crusted over with seawater.

What a ridiculous statement. When I was cruising on the Anchorage, the Marines weren't any better than the sailors about keeping seawater off their 50s.

Grow up. Your branch of service is not the only one capable of heroism or competence. Your fanboyism reminds me of the things junior high students say, when they obviously haven't a clue what they're talking about.

Stick to the story.


Three things,
1.
I did not say Marines are more capable keeping weapons clean.I am saying that the weapons would have been operable and ready for use if they were Marine weapons.

2 "haven`t a clue what your talking about"
Yes I do: The quickest way to get into deep sh**
in the USMC is to have a dirty weapon.

3. "Stick to the story"
Line 30 in the article:
"50 caliber machine gun was crusted over with salt water"

I have the higest respect for the men of the Pueblo. I was not attacking the other services.


2062016

You're highly mistaken , read the article posted by OldArmyWOPA. The article has quotes from 2 Marine Seargents who were on board the Pueblo when it was captured by the NVA. See what they should have had is a US Army Infantry Platoon on board; they would have affixed bayonets and killed the NVA for trying to step foot on board the vessel.

Uh, Ant6184
That Army Platoon could have killed a 1000 NVA and not have stopped the Pueblo from being caputred. It was captured by North Koreans not the NVA(North Vietnamese Army).

One of my favorite army generals was Jonathan “Skinny” Mayhew Wainwright IV. Here’s is part of his story:

quote:

In September 1940, he was promoted to temporary Major General and returned to the Philippines to take command of the Philippine Division. As the senior field commander of US and Filipino forces under Douglas MacArthur, he had tactical responsibility for resisting the Japanese invasion that began in late December 1941. Pushed back from beachheads in Lingayen Gulf, his Philippine forces withdrew onto the Bataan Peninsula early in January 1942, where they occupied well prepared defensive positions and commanded the entrance to Manila Bay. In throwing back a major Japanese assault in January the defenders earned name of "battling *******s of Bataan." When MacArthur was ordered off Bataan in March 1942, Wainwright, promoted to temporary Lieutenant General, succeeded to command of US Army Forces in the Far East, a command immediately afterward redesignated US Forces in the Philippines. The Japanese attacks resumed in earnest in April.

A Small core of the now starving, ill and unsupplied garrison pulled farther back onto island fortress of Corregidor, leaving 70,000 defenders on Bataan to surrender on April 9. The Japanese gained a foothold on Corregidor on May 5 against a furious defense, and the next day he was forced to surrender the 3500 men on the island. Under orders that he was forced to broadcast, local commanders elsewhere in the Philippines surrendered one by one, and on June 9 the US command in the Philippines ceased to exist.

He was then held in prison camps in northern Luzon, Formosa, and Manchuria until he was liberated by Russian troops in August 1945. After witnessing the Japanese surrender aboard the USS Missouri on September 2, he returned to the Philippines to receive the surrender of the local Japanese commander. A hero's welcome in the US was accompanied by promotion to General and the awarding of the Medal of Honor. "Memoir, General Wainwright's Story," was published in 1945.

Now compare his actions, the results his actions and how he was treated afterwards to that of Navy Commander Lloyd "Pete" Bucher and tell me that Cmdr Bucher didn’t get a very raw deal.

Both men made decisions that none of us would ever want to have to make, and in my eyes they were both heroes.

quote:

Originally posted by ANT6184:
quote:
Originally posted by freakzilla60:

quote:
Originally posted by 2062016:
RE: http://www.military.com/forums/0,15240,178970,00.html

Should have had a couple of Marines on board - those 50s wouldn`t have been crusted over with seawater.

What a ridiculous statement. When I was cruising on the Anchorage, the Marines weren't any better than the sailors about keeping seawater off their 50s.

Grow up. Your branch of service is not the only one capable of heroism or competence. Your fanboyism reminds me of the things junior high students say, when they obviously haven't a clue what they're talking about.

Stick to the story.


Three things,
1.
I did not say Marines are more capable keeping weapons clean.I am saying that the weapons would have been operable and ready for use if they were Marine weapons.

2 "haven`t a clue what your talking about"
Yes I do: The quickest way to get into deep sh**
in the USMC is to have a dirty weapon.

3. "Stick to the story"
Line 30 in the article:
"50 caliber machine gun was crusted over with salt water"

I have the higest respect for the men of the Pueblo. I was not attacking the other services.


2062016

You're highly mistaken , read the article posted by OldArmyWOPA. The article has quotes from 2 Marine Seargents who were on board the Pueblo when it was captured by the NVA. See what they should have had is a US Army Infantry Platoon on board; they would have affixed bayonets and killed the NVA for trying to step foot on board the vessel.

freakzilla60

Check the crewlist!