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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events In the News The Real Story Behind the F-15 Stand-Down|
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New Member |
RE: http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,160190,00.html
If it is ever proven that the real reason for the stand down was to gain support for more F-22's or any reason other than what was stated. Some heads need to roll. To put our national security at risk, for profit, can not be tolerated. Hopefully, there is no basis for the accusation. |
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Member |
I think its wise to examine aircraft in such a way when a failure of this type is discovered. Aging aircraft require more maintenance but the F-15 is a solid craft with good performance. May the F-22 prove to be as note worthy. Only time will tell, 30 years or so down the road. I have worked on machines for 20 years and did some work for McDonald Douglas as a civilian. They make a good product and at this stage of the game its foolish to sling dirt. I turned down an offer to work with CAT in 1996 because I liked them that much and was hopeing they would prevail. Don't tell that to the UAW though. I had an interveiw and tour with CAT and had striking UAW and Union types looking for trouble. Some people think not wanting to work for CAT because of the UAW is cowardly on my part. I guess in my mind I will not work for anyone that has no appeciation for me because I am a man of honor. Working with people like that would be a lowering of my standards as an engineer. Let them look for trouble with the managers, they will reap what they sew some day. I salute the Aerospace workers from McDonald Douglas and wish they would have prevailed. I am not a Union man but liked the additudes of the Aerospace Union. My brief experiances while effecting equipment mods was met by intelligent devoted individuals that were cooperative and good at what they did. Someone asked me what causes such a difference in Unions and I theorize that its because the defense department has higher personel standards. This is not to say UAW is full of criminals but because the government has a stricter hiring policy the group has a less rebelious group. My observations of Union activities within this community leads me to believe they have enemy identification problems. Anyone living in a Union town during a strike is subjected to discrediting, if you are not known or not part of a Union. Like a blackman at a KKK gathering, Unions will disrupt the lives of people like common criminals. I witnessed this at a young age and couldn't help but feel confused being a Navy Vet. We are suppost to live in a free Country but my experiances with some Union types contradicts this. Made me feel like I was still in the Navy in a hostile Country. I guess some people chose money over honor. The funny thing is people talk about honor and pride but by breaking Gods laws, honor is a terrorists cry.
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Super Member |
All those involved seem to agree, there is no vast Air Force conspiracy to chisel more money for F-22's. Respectfully, SUNLINER81 |
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Experienced Member |
Me thinks you're right. There is no doubt that 200 will never come back. They are just too worn out. They got patches everywhere. every thing that can be "twisted by a wrench" has been done thousands of times (more Guard). They are a legitimate risk.there are others, ballpark 100 or so, that some are going to say are ok to return but will have all kinds of stuff added to phase and others that, for thier political reasons are going to say they too, are unsafe. Either way, because of the uptempo sortie rates, they too wont come close to reaching thier original out dates. It shouldnt be political at all, The simple fact is new inventory into service should be a priority to insure that the US stays top dog. Given the threat level in actual combat aircraft in service globally in the next 10-15 years, a purchase of 80-90 Advanced F15s for domestic air defense roles and "E" roles. The F15 would make a great large MRCA and with the delays in the F35 program it would be a great stopgap measure and cost effective at 70 mil a pop. Seriously, thats less than half of an F22 and minus design stealth, is otherwise just as capable of doing what we really need this aircraft to do. Chances are good that the AF will get another 192 F22s before the subcontractor production phase of the contracts are up. Thats enough for our realistic needs and it does more than simply "keeping up with the Joneses" |
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Yeah I'm sure that pilot really wanted his plane to disintegrate in mid flight doing 600 mph with him in it. That's how dedicated he is to the F-22 cause. Even though he may not be able to ever go back to active duty again. He sure is dedicated.
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New Member |
Have you seen the video re-creation of the Aircraft breaking?? You need to watch that before you listen to any "Conspiracy Theory" rhetoric...The Aircraft came apart in straight and level flight about 425kts, 1.1g...That is downright Scary!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeDRzgHyjyQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxmGDSgdlbI&feature=related |
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Member |
Word Up Team,
See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealth_aircraft My personal favorite is the the f-22 Raptor. |
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New Member |
The following was extracted out of the article: "Inspecting America's 700 F-15s is a massive undertaking that involves thousands of maintenance crews around the world. In what is called an Immediate Action Time Compliance Technical Order, a list of detailed instructions was handed down to those maintainers whose daily duty is to keep the complex planes flying. "This is done at the base level," says Maj. Tom Crosson, spokesman for Air Combat Command". What I don't understand is, why would they make it seem like it is such a grand undertaking to inspect an F-15? Not once do they address what should have been done to inspect the planes, they just talk about how old they are and how time consuming the task is. I'm sure they were being inspected....maybe they should look at procedures that weren't followed. My guess is ( conspiricy theory or not)....that if Johnny wants a new bike.....he starts caring less about the one he has so that it degrades as fast as possible. I was at Tyndall AFB when they got their first batch of F-15's in (I believe it was 1982)and can't imagine they are having structural problems to that degree. I guess they better start looking at the U2's and C130's. Oh, but they don't have new and improved replacements.....so they take care of them. I'm all for the Raptors, but the F-15's are a wicked plane. A Raptor's cost could fix a lot of 15's. Ron |
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Member |
Although expensive, what about the supersonic jets or leers. We could precision missles or bombs in milliseconds. Radar wouldn't even register they were in airspace beofre they dropped payload. By then it 's misson accomplished and miller time.
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I traced the f-22's to hawaii as of a few months ago. I don;t know if the newer stealth jets were up to par. However I thought the beams in the f-15's were the issue. not more secret funding for the f-22.
Related Story: Defective Beam Cited in F-15 Crash |
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New Member |
Does anyone know what the estimated life span was for the structural intergrity?
It would have been nice to know what McDonnel Douglas had to say about it and whether or not this timing was known. The Raptor is better, and when it comes to attacking and out maneuvering,it can't be beat. I like the video of the VTOL especially. It's Miller time if you hit your target and especially if you don't.  |
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Member |
The taedpong missle predeveloped in N Korea can reach Mach 12. Throw those on a Leer. It should work. Or aim our slower missles backwards for launch. that way when you are supersonic and launching a missle there are not grim results.
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New Member |
We should probably just put a nuke on a Leer and drive it straight in.
Its real disappointing that we fight wars with such regulation. Ron |
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Member |
Depends on grade of materials, maintenance and integrity of coatings, don't know? The vectored thrust F-22 is far more agile in a gun fight. Missles are another story and high speed verses human structural limitations. |
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New Member |
I worked for a research and development company where we were using large flash drive units to record high speed movements on missiles as they were leaving the wings. The data would be recorded and then sent down to the ground in semi-realtime for quick analysis. I think the AirForce was developing a fixture for mounting missles that could be rotated side to side and up and down for different g-force maneuvers. I guess if you are in a 6G turn you would want your missle to come off at a different angle for maximum effectiveness. I believe this apparatus would allow you to launch during maneuvers so you wouldn't have to wait for the plane to level off.
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Wow ,
The big hitters are here t'night. I am talking about a full 180 point of mount. Anotherworkds the rockets fire backwards and then are programmed to lower down to target away from the plane. <leer,hypersonics data> A newer raddical out of the box style of thinking. It may seem backwards to you, but in supersonic flight, drop em and forget em, instead of having them do something we don't want. Then it's  time. Love em and leave em. Also might not be too bad for aircraft or rocket repellant if a fast enough craft is chasing the planes down... Kinda lkie the BHE concepts I post in yahoo 360.Yahoo! 360° - American Art & Inventions Online Magazine American Art & Inventions Online Magazine--> Click here Reply ... Tags: terrorism, inventions, war, anti_missle_technology, defense, bhe, airport_security ... blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-O1ahRPI8er4gvVWAGF6W_kZB - 237k - Cached |
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j-dram bombs or sparrows are sufficient. Has anyone even tried to mount a missle rack on a leer? The president is shopping for newer hellicopters for passage. This might be an alternative to the 350 million they are spending on that. Buy a leer, and mount some missles to shoot forwards, and some backwards to cover all angles. Not missles used as countermeasures, just hypersonic releases of missles inthe aft without shooting em and running into em at near same speeds/.
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Super Member |
Being a maintainer in the military and in the civilian world, well until recently, I retired, there are areas of the aircraft that are inspected at very high hours and some areas of the aircraft that never get inspected, until a series of reports come in that indicate that there is a problem developing, like coming apart in flight. Also each airframe has a predicted "high time" on it and we are exceeding those high time hours because of the war, so consequently, we are now seeing problems develop that couldn't possibly have been foreseen. The F-15 is an awesome aircraft, but it is reaching the end of it's airframe and technical superiority life. It, unfortunately, is now due for replacement. Hey, there are those that love the B-17. But the thing is, that the B-17 has long since reached it's operational life and technical superiority. I had the great fortune to talk to a WW-II B-17 pilot and I asked him if he would like to fly in a B-17 again, if he ever got the chance. His immediate reply was not just no, but h3ll no! I was shocked and I asked him why. He told me that when he flew them in WW-II, they were all brand new, most being no more than six months old. He then said that the aircraft was now way over it's life span and no matter how well maintained, anyone flying one was taking a big chance. My point to all of this? That no matter how good the F-15 is, it's now "old" and they are developing failures, failures that no one ever foresaw... Respectfully, SUNLINER81 |
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I also rebuild equipment and many problems as you say are not easy to overcome. I rebuild from the ground up but not everything is worth the risk or money. A lot of newer aircraft use different materials that could extend service life. Most aging aircraft suffer from structural fractures due to oxidation around fixation points. Although correctable it is time consuming. |
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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events In the News The Real Story Behind the F-15 Stand-Down
