Stir the pot?

Question:
Now that DWO is mandatory for E-6, should the E-6 who don’t have it passed be allowed to take the 08 SWE for E-7? I don't,

Choices:
YES
NO

Question:
should E-6 who don’t have it passed get orders to a PB over those who do?

Choices:
YES
NO

 

This message has been edited. Last edited by: LEGACYBMDOT,

Legacy,
You have two questions and only one poll. One of my answers is a yes and the other is a no, so I just answered the first question

THANKS

If an E-6 doesn't have it passed yet, they have until 01 Feb 2008 to pass it to compete for the E-7 SWE. That is a ton of time. It shouldn't even be a question.

is it in writing?
My CO said it would not be mandatory.

A BM3 who does not know the Navrules is severely handicapped. I think the requirement should have never gone away.

As for the DWO for E6 ...absolutely they should have to pass it for advancement. That prac is so much better than most of the requirements in terms of knowing your job. Anyone that can't pass the DWO to make 1st should not be making first.....

Requiring DWO for advancement???

IF, IF, IF, Commanding Officers were following Coast Guard Regulations, the larger cutters would not be having enlisted men standing Deck Watches,(OOD).

Dig into about Chap 7 or maybe 8 ( Assignment of Duties ??) and you'll find a proviso that when sufficient Officers are available, enlisted will not be assigned to Deck Watch Officer duties. It should not be used a convenience for an easy watch schedule.

Smaller cutters, a needed requirement, but where more than 3 Warrant and commissioned officers are available, and qualified for duty, enlisted should not be used.

DWO should be more of a unit specific requirement.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MastersMate,

Then should they be able to take the SWE for E-7
its mandatory for E-6

You can throw as many requirements as you'd like for advancement, BUT do they just look good on the resume or are they needed ??

Is there a REQUIREMENT for being DWO to be considered for an appointment as BOSN or to be promoted onward ??

Is it a requirement for an Ensign who may not have a sea tour be DWO for promotion to Ltjg, THATS their mission in life, to be a DWO.

By the CG Regs, an enlistedman is not required/ or to be used as a DWO if sufficient officers are available. why then should it be a requirement to advance.

If it is to be a requirement, change CG Regs to make assignment as DWO an enlisted job.

MM;
First off, you are talking apples and oranges. The "DWO" they are talking about is the EXAM, not the watch. Secondly, let me correct one phrase you used - "warrant and commisioned" - in the CG - every CWO is a COMMISIONED officer as we do not use WO1.

Having spent the major portion of my career in the Shiphandling and Navigation Rating, I can tell you that YES, enlisted people should be standing OOD! It is not for the convienence of an easy watch schedule and never was. Now with only one rating of professional mariners/shiphandlers it is even more important. The senior BMs aboard cutters are the experts, and they will be required to be for the rest of their career in all things related tot he role of the OOD. They will most likely end up in a command role aboard a Cutter in the future - much more likely than the JOs.

quote:

Originally posted by LEGACYBMDOT:
is it in writing?
My CO said it would not be mandatory.

You got me... Look at it this way, you will need it eventually anyway, probably sooner than later, so might as well knock it out just to CYA.

Underway OOD is a requirement for advancement. You must have a DWO letter (not just test) to get an afloat OIC qual. You have to have OIC afloat certification in addition to ashore to advance to BMCS (unless you're a Surfman, then theres some other requirements). I got mine on a PB, but I don't think those on large Cutters should be denied the oppurtunity to get their letter. You also have to have a DWO letter to get an afloat XPO billet. Though I'm not disagreeing with what you say is written in the CG Regs, maybe some revisions do need to be made.

[QUOTE]MM;
First off, you are talking apples and oranges. The "DWO" they are talking about is the EXAM, not the watch. Secondly, let me correct one phrase you used - "warrant and commisioned" - in the CG - every CWO is a COMMISIONED officer as we do not use WO1.

QUOTE]
"Though I'm not disagreeing with what you say is written in the CG Regs, maybe some revisions do need to be made."
---------------------------------------------

Familiar with the differences between Warrant and commissioned, suspect that the folks that write CG regs may want to catch up on that little tidbit, see verbiage in the below photo.

No arguement that they can be qualified and certified on many cutters, but again, the writers of the regs, might want to clarify that just a bit in 7-5-8B.

The head and azz scratching concerns the lashing of the DWO EXAM (rules of the road) as a condition to advancement. The folks with the "W" or "O" before pay grade need to pass the exam to go to sea duty to fulfill their obligations as deck officers. But completion of the exam isn't tied to their promotions. It seems to me a " sea going specific qual" being required enmasse.

Is the content of the DWO exam in anyway similar to the " navrules" exam that one hears about for BM3/Coxswain ??

The denizens of the wardroom ,if I read it correctly, only have to execute a DWO EXAM when heading to sea, a rarity for them, I gather.


I think I remember the difference between the term DECK WATCH OFFICER, and the term OFFICER OF THE DECK

May someday tackle the correct terminology for those "W" folks wearing the sleeve lace of an ensign with broken service.

As an off the bulkhead observation to this topic. The DWO exam requirement has, if you looked for those sinister sorts of things, the same feeling as the requirement for all those OinC qualifications/certification boards that the deck rating is subjected to.

WHY is it the senior enlistedmen in the BM (ETs still?) rating that are required to go before a board for certification to OinC. Why not CWOs, LTs, CDRs, Capts. Have they received divine enlightenment and infinite wisdom ???

Before it is lost to history, it might prove to be very enlightening as to just why the OinC certification process was established 30 years ago. There are a number of anecdotal reasons, but knowing the facts would prove interesting.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MastersMate,

Boatswain's Mates are EXPERTS in the fundamentals of seamanship and in the comprehension of the COLREGS.

We are expected to mentor and train others, including junior officers, on these rules.

Think about it...these rules are core knowledge of our rating. Many E-2's and E-3's are striking BM and we have a responsibility to teach others to be proficient with the rules.

I think successful completion of the exam should be a requirement to make E-4. Whether you are a coxswain or cutterman, you must know these rules "cold" to be a BM.

No, an already advanced E-6 who has not passed the exam should not be permitted to compete in the SWE. Furthermore, assignment on a patrol boat is all about using the rules. Without the test passed, it creates a burden on the command and the overall stamina of the unit (watch rotation).

I understand how difficult the test is, however. I had the privilege of standing watch with the best shiphandler I have ever met in my career and he had a hard time with the exam, but he passed it. He knew the information but just wasn't good at tests.

We need to hold our rating to high standards.

So then make the test mandatory so we dont have a bunch of slackers. I look up to my BMC/XPO who has all the tools to be a leader in our rate DWO,OIC CERT multi,COX.....
How can my next BMC only have a coxn qual.
they both get paid the same but only one can develop the younger BM fleet.
Not that being a Coxn is easy but we all did it as SN and BM3's, then all one has to do from that point on is write a good SWE. ALL we are doing is making it easy.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: LEGACYBMDOT,

So can any one tell me if it will be mandatory.
antoher ? is can an E-4 without navruls make E-5 since its not mandatory.

Jimmy:

People are not advanced to BM3 unless they have passed their NAVRULS. We hold people back from advancement in "A" school if they don't. Units with member's striking cannot advance SNBM's to BM3 until they meet all the requirements, as I'm sure you're aware, including passing the NAVRULS. Then they can sit for certifying as COXN.

As far as your question about E6 to E7 and the "optional" DWO test, go back and look at the EPQ's dated March 2008. You can find them on CG Central. Once a member makes E6, before they are eligible to sit for an E7 servicewide, they HAVE to have both a cox'n certification AND the DWO test passed.

For advancement to:

E4: Completion of NAVRULES (The completion of DWOINTRO will also satisfy this requirement)

E5: Assigned ONE of the following competencies:
QMOW, COXN, or Underway DWO (for example, u/w OOD on an 87 or 110 WPB)

E6: Certification as COXN on any platform, AND
completion of DWOINTRO or DWOINTR (renewal) exam.

So, by the time a member is ready for advancement to E7, they should have both a cox'n certification and u/w dwo test taken and passed.

There is nothing optional about taking the DWO for advancement. You have to have it done by the time you make E6 for further advancement and certification opportunities. It sounds confusing since a requirement to advance to E5, you are only required to have ONE one of the following: COXN, QMOW, OR DWO certification -- but it's set up this way to allow members to advance without being penalized for being at shore units or cutters exclusively. Plus, it sets the wheels in motion for members to take better charge of their careers, ensure they get the full, well rounded exposure they need underway and ashore, to earn both afloat and ashore certifications and further compete for OIC certification.

Another way to look at this is:

On your '87, you're BM2 stands DWO watch..he's already passed the DWO exam, and maybe he is also your small boat Cox'n, and holds that certification as well. Guess what...not only is he
lined up to advance to E6, he is eligible to sit for OIC review boards, earn afloat and ashore
certifications, and meets the eligibility criteria for E8 (assuming he earns OIC certifications).

So..it helps to knock the stuff out early.

quote:

WHY is it the senior enlistedmen in the BM (ETs still?) rating that are required to go before a board for certification to OinC. Why not CWOs, LTs, CDRs, Capts. Have they received divine enlightenment and infinite wisdom ???

They go through a 4 year board called the academy. or OCS or any other equivelent. Us enlisted actually have it pretty easy in comparison.