I’m thinking about joining the Coast Guard and have a couple questions about the service’s culture. I have an AA degree and I’m a Coxswain in the CG Auxiliary, so one way or another I’ll enter the service as an E-3. It’s hard to impart this in a chat forum, but I honestly don’t expect anything to be given to me, anything made easier, etc. because of the bump in pay-grade; I expect to put in just as much hard work as everyone else. I think it would be stupid, however, not to take the E-3 bump if it’s a legitimate offer to me. I’ll also note that guaranteed A-School is not an option and I plan to strike.

I’ve heard from various people that there’s often resentment from both SA’s/SN’s and BM3’s towards SNBM’s/ BM3’s who got guaranteed A-School and also towards E-3’s who entered right at that pay grade. On the one hand, I can see how non-rates and petty officers who “did it the hard way” resent new recruits who automatically earn more money for no real reason or who expect to be treated like petty officers. At the same time, I seriously doubt that anyone who qualified for E-3 turned it down, and those who resent these E-3’s would have taken the opportunity if they qualified for it. Ultimately, I’m curious if going in as an E-3 is going to make my life miserable- because of the berating from others-once I get to my unit.

Lastly (and I can’t impart enough how I do not expect to be treated any differently, I know the CG Auxiliary qualification means nothing in the active duty, and I understand I will be working and learning as hard as everyone else), would it be wise to mention that I am a Coxswain in the CG Auxiliary to those who mentor me in the qualification process, or should I not disclose this? I know I will go through the full qualification process from comms watchstander up, but would this information help move things along or would it result in further resentment, etc.?

quote:

I’m curious if going in as an E-3 is going to make my life miserable- because of the berating from others-once I get to my unit.

Do your job and pull your fair share of the workload and I guarantee nobody will care what paygrade you came in as. In the grand scheme of things the difference between an E-2 and E-3 is a few hundred dollars pay and better placement on the A school list.

As far as telling people you were an Aux coxswain that's your choice. To be blunt most likely nobody is going to care what you did before you joined, the only thing they'll care about is what you can do now that you're in.

If you join up just study hard, be a good shipmate, and go the extra mile when you have a chance. Respect has to be earned and you won't get it if you don't show it (that goes for all paygrades) .

E-2 and E-3 are the same, and it's about a $100 difference in pay. No body is going to care, we look at all NON-POs the same, E-1,2 or 3, there all the same. It's not like you going to be in charge of deck force just because you came in as an E-3 and not an E-2. You'll have to earn your respect as it's not automatically given, and that's for ANY pay grade.

Even though I'm a BM1, upon my arrival to my next ship/ SB station, I will also have to earn the respect of the crew. This is done by keeping your mouth closed and eyes open. You'll be just fine as an E-3. And do tell your BM1/BMC that your were in the AUX, they do alot for the CG and are respected by the active duty folks. IF you go to a SB station in south FL, you'll find out how much we appreciate the AUX. And if your on a cutter, the BM1 may be willing to give you a first chance opportunity to get in the CB_long/OTH and be a crewmen because of your background.

You just open a whole different can of worms with guaranteed A school. No one, NO ONE should ever go right to A school from boot camp. I hope the RF-MC changes that option for recruits.

Your right, those that go to A school from boot camp don't get respected, especially when they show up to a cutter. Those guys have a very rough tour, it may not be right, but that's the way it is.

I'm not much for beating around the bush, so there you have it from me.

quote:

Originally posted by sharrison2010:

You just open a whole different can of worms with guaranteed A school. No one, NO ONE should ever go right to A school from boot camp. I hope the RF-MC changes that option for recruits.

Your right, those that go to A school from boot camp don't get respected, especially when they show up to a cutter. Those guys have a very rough tour, it may not be right, but that's the way it is.

I'm not much for beating around the bush, so there you have it from me.

This is what blows my mind everytime I read this crap. Why do the other branches of service all send their people right off to schools after bootcamp but the Coast Guard somehow sees it as a horrible thing to do????

Like somehow spending a couple of years with a mop, paintbrush or chasing running rusts makes you a better Petty Officer. I just don't get it.

FYI, I didn't go to school until my 3rd yr so I'm not trying to defend going to school after bootcamp because that's what I did.

As I have posted in other threads like this, my son graduated Parris Island and like any other Marine, went to Marine Combat Training (if Infantry, they go to SOI) and then they all go off to their MOS schools....no sitting around doing cleanups and painting for 2 yrs to earn other's respect. What a bunch of B.S.! I'm not attacking you Sharrison, you're the messenger here just telling the OP the truth.

I simply find it so immature that others react that way.

Can anyone name a State, Local or Federal L/E or Fire Rescue agency that does the same?

(sorry for the rant, touchy subject when I think about the other branches of service )

Don

Don-
I'm of the opinion that having that "non-rated" exposure / indoctrination into the Guard early on actually allows these entry level folks to make a better educated choice about what rate they want to persue. I know of quite a few folks in DOD who werent well educated consumers and signed on for jobs they eventualy didnt like. Just an opinion though.

Cheers!

quote:

Originally posted by 21yrsUSCGUSCS:

quote:

Originally posted by sharrison2010:

You just open a whole different can of worms with guaranteed A school. No one, NO ONE should ever go right to A school from boot camp. I hope the RF-MC changes that option for recruits.

Your right, those that go to A school from boot camp don't get respected, especially when they show up to a cutter. Those guys have a very rough tour, it may not be right, but that's the way it is.

I'm not much for beating around the bush, so there you have it from me.

This is what blows my mind everytime I read this crap. Why do the other branches of service all send their people right off to schools after bootcamp but the Coast Guard somehow sees it as a horrible thing to do????

Like somehow spending a couple of years with a mop, paintbrush or chasing running rusts makes you a better Petty Officer. I just don't get it.

FYI, I didn't go to school until my 3rd yr so I'm not trying to defend going to school after bootcamp because that's what I did.

As I have posted in other threads like this, my son graduated Parris Island and like any other Marine, went to Marine Combat Training (if Infantry, they go to SOI) and then they all go off to their MOS schools....no sitting around doing cleanups and painting for 2 yrs to earn other's respect. What a bunch of B.S.! I'm not attacking you Sharrison, you're the messenger here just telling the OP the truth.

I simply find it so immature that others react that way.

Can anyone name a State, Local or Federal L/E or Fire Rescue agency that does the same?

(sorry for the rant, touchy subject when I think about the other branches of service )

Don

I have much respect for your opinion Sir, but in the case of a boot to A BM3 I have to respectfully disagree.

A BM3 in the CG is an instant supervisor on top of being expected to be some combination of Coxn, BO, OOD, BTM, crewman, mother, father, comms watchstander, babysitter, *******, teacher, leader, shoulder to cry on and the boot in the ass. There is a huge amount of responsibility thrust on the shoulders of our new BM3's. Many are stuck in a BM2's billet and expected to fill the same job. Where does one first learn not only the responsibility but some of the basic ways that the CG operates? Not in basic training, and not in A School.

Time in the fleet should be mandatory before going to BM A school. If anything I would hope fleet life would scare away any wannabe's that think they want to go BM. Give me the ones that see firsthand the workload, stress and long hours we place on our BM3s and still, despite all this, can't imagine being anything other than a Boatswain's Mate.

VR
BM2

nothing wrong with going to school. sure it may take the person a little longer to adapt to the guard, but all the ones i have encountered turned out to be great leaders. the CG only requires the minimum. a person can never know everything about everything. i have no problem asking a SN a question if i dont know the answer. learn what you can, do your job to the best of your ability, work as a team. whether your a shake and bake or a 4yr nonrate that makes PO. we all achieve the same common goal

quote:

Originally posted by DeckE:


Time in the fleet should be mandatory before going to BM A school. If anything I would hope fleet life would scare away any wannabe's that think they want to go BM. Give me the ones that see firsthand the workload, stress and long hours we place on our BM3s and still, despite all this, can't imagine being anything other than a Boatswain's Mate.

VR
BM2

I can't argue with any of what you wrote. I see your point as far as that goes.

My response earlier was based on the idea that I feel there are those people who get upset over someone going to "A" school immediately simply because they didn't and had to go through the time as a nonrate.

If we're talking 6 months as a nonrate, then I agree. My issue is more with those rates that may have a person waiting for school or striking up to two years. Some may reply that the striker should work harder to make it go by more quickly but I know from my past, at least at that time (early 80's), the BM's didn't have a whole lot of time to devote to working with me while striking. They certainly weren't jerks or anything in my opinion, it was just that there wasn't much free time for training back then, at least at the units I was at.

My understanding is that the Coast Guard has made great efforts to increase training at the unit levels. Again, that must depend greatly on the workload and it no doubtably varies on the Petty Officers who are required to train the strikers.

Don

We have reduced the number of guaranteed "A" school seats mostly because we don't need to use this program; we have plenty of people that want to be a BM.

I can tell you that the biggest reason a young BM puts in a CIR - inability to certify as coxswain; strikers and "A" school graduates.

Regardless as to how our BM3s are made, we all have a responsibility to groom their leadership and managerial skills from the first day they step on board our unit. If you pre-judge their ability based on how they attained BM3 then I’m sure they will fail. But I know you all won’t let that happen as you are your brother’s keeper.

BM RFMC sends….

quote:

Originally posted by 21047708:
We have reduced the number of guaranteed "A" school seats mostly because we don't need to use this program; we have plenty of people that want to be a BM.

I can tell you that the biggest reason a young BM puts in a CIR - inability to certify as coxswain; strikers and "A" school graduates.

Regardless as to how our BM3s are made, we all have a responsibility to groom their leadership and managerial skills from the first day they step on board our unit. If you pre-judge their ability based on how they attained BM3 then I’m sure they will fail. But I know you all won’t let that happen as you are your brother’s keeper.

BM RFMC sends….

Having struck myself and then taught A School, I honestly can't say one is better the other (of course I prefer striking). It depends on the individual and how they learn. My last 6 months at BFC I've noticed the lack of active duty Boot-to-A's, which had the instructor staff breathing a little easier (the nerves you have at the sticks watching a guy that's never been on boat in his life trying to haul in the anchor and not fall in).

In my observations of the students, most of the time it was the 1-2 year non-rates that were taking the leadership roles in their class (without needing the title of "class leader") and their boat crews. They had better ideas about how to manage their peers due to their exposure of being led at a CG unit.

"Like somehow spending a couple of years with a mop, paintbrush or chasing running rusts makes you a better Petty Officer. I just don't get it. "

I can promise you this, I was a much better Petty Officer after being a NON-PO for 8 months and here is why.
I was a NON-PO (E-2/3) on CGC Decisive, I then went to BM-A school and went right back to a 210, Venturous, having been a NON-PO on Decisive made it easier for me to get qualified, get the respect of the crew and LEAD my department(not to mention the fact that I knew all the good hiding spots!) I knew how to paint so I could teach someone to paint, I knew how to do a stern refuel and I knew how to stand watch. It was also easy for me to relate to the E-2/3s since only a few months prior, I was in there position waiting for A school and so on.

It's also hard to have a Boot-to-A because that option is not always open to everyone.
EXP; a boot-to-A BM3 shows up to the cutter and he has been in for just over 3 months, he is now in charge of 3 Non-POs that have been on the BM A school list for 7 months. How much respect do you think those guys are going to give him?

I currently have 4 BM3s that were boot-to-a; they get just as much attention as everyone else. I sometimes forget that they haven't been a Non-PO before, but my BM3s are the shizzel. I guess I just got lucky!

MC- I was just trying to give my 2cts to the one who started this board "thoughts/resentment around guaranteed E-3"
I can only give my first hand experience, maybe it's different in other parts of the CG, but not the part I was in.

I apologize if I dug a grave for someone, but hopefully you will consider my examples and make the chose for YOU. We are not the NAVY or the USMC, that's the reason I joined the CG because it wasn't like any other branch. We are SECOND TO NONE!!! Believe it buddy. I just signed on for another 6 years(I have almost 8 in right now). We are the best service and we have the best people, some are boot-to-a and others are service-to-a or strikers. Together we make up the most awesome organization anyone could ever hope to be a part of. After you get past your first 4 years, none of this crap will even matter to you.

If your going right to A school from boot camp, then you be the best damn boot-to-a that has ever served in the Coast Guard

9447045,
As someone who came in as an E-3(6yr enlistment), I wasn't treated any different from the SA that reported at the same time. Thats pretty much, from what I've seen over the last 6 1/2 yrs and 3 units later, how it goes down. Now with that said. The SN or FN thats been there a while and is qualified will get more responsibilty, and not so many of the crap jobs one encounters from time to time. Thats just how we ALL progress in this fine service. Being there and doing that is just part of how you, me, most everyone builds on our experience and leadership skills. So who cares if you enter in as an SA or SN, besides if you enter in as an E-2 in six months you can be an E-3 anyway.

Hope I could shed a little light on this.

Sam

As a BM1, Surfman, and XPO I have worked with, for, and led both Striker BM's and A school BM's and I can tell you one is no better, smarter or more capable than the other. One of the sharpest BM3's I ever had the pleasure to serve with went from Boot camp to A school. It seems to me a "because that's the way it was for me" mentality seems to be the driving force behind most peoples heartache with the Boot to A program. Things have changed a lot in my 14 years, and I am sure will continue to do so, and as long as we keep training and mentoring ALL of our shipmates the best way we know how, the mission will be a success!