Your last threee paragraphs do nothing to convince me Stanton's guilt or involvement. One thing is the vast amount of emotional stress and strain that those people went through. Those movements or instances you mentioned could have come from just what I mentioned. Evidently other people have thought so too. He was a man of many moods and expressions. Overly dramatic at times and that's why its not taken seriously. The man was a drama king.
Nope, I just don't see it. Mainly because as others have said, there were to many times that Stanton and the supposed conspirators could have killed Lincoln that it didn't happen. C'mon, if they really wanted to have done it, they could have long before. The circumstances and how the comedy of errors wound up doing the deed, makes the rest of this ..........I just don't buy it.
No, we probably will never know for sure, because of the vast amount of personal and other feelings that have tainted the whole history of this. Naw, he was a bombastic SOB and loved to destroy people from behind the scenes never working directly, but a chief conspirator to assassinate Lincoln......

quote:

Originally posted by JPope:
Your last threee paragraphs do nothing to convince me Stanton's guilt or involvement. (portions deleted to conserve space.) ...Nope, I just don't see it. Mainly because as others have said, there were to(o) many times that Stanton and the supposed conspirators could have killed Lincoln that it didn't happen.
...I just don't buy it. No, we probably will never know for sure...

WRONG!
In a day and time to come, we will know all things. However, I grant you that day and time is not now. I'll also grant that the conspirators may have covered their tracks well; but they will not be able to hide anything from Him who sees and knows all things. While I may never be able to show you irrefutable, ironclad proof, deep-down I believe that Stanton was in it up to his eyeballs.

However, it is not my purpose to pursue a huge conspiracy theory that already has many tracks all over it. If I have not pursuaded you of this matter, then you have an absolute right to believe as you do. But in a day to come, justice will be served and accounting will be required. When that day arrives then I believe that Stanton and his co-conspiritors will be required to answer to the charge of murder.

Also, I have heard medical testimony to the effect that Lincoln was actually terminally ill and possibly would not have finished his second term. While there may some truth to that, the point is actually rendered moot by his murder. Still, I think it would have been nice to see how he planned to bring the South back into the Union and how successful he might have been. But given the vindictive mood of The Congress, he may have found himself fighting the Civil War part 2 on Capitol Hill.

You are right the lord will call them into accounting for what they did in life. Then we'll all know for sure.
By citing the medical info I did, I feel as do quite a few others that this whole episode, whoever was involved, was NOT really necessary and their goals would have accomplished by God when Lincoln died of natural causes. Which would not have been muchlonger. A year maybe two.
Good discussion! Vigerous and passionate!

I think that there is too much mythology in who the real Lincoln was. It is unfortunate that so many today are interested in whitewashing Sherman's march (and dozens of other warcrimes on an equal scale through the entire war), denigrating Stonewall Jackson's defeat of three armies (unmatched until Rommel and Slim in WW2), and a general rewriting of all the South's history both during the war, before, and after. Certainly I do not hate northern people but I don't think many of you understand how much hatred that comes our way on account of these lies.
It is important to understand who you are dealing with: Southerners are historically very different from the rest of the country. Without going into detail, I will say that this doesn't make us inferior and we should not be ashamed. A region which votes consistently one way, believes in a predominant religion, has a peculiar work ethic (a good one - considering the amount of jobs that support the country but pay little.....including military service) of the population is distinctive. Putting this into a government would only be logical, especially as our differences become greater.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ordmate:
I want to try to ressurect this thread. I have read that Lincoln had a plan to offer each freed black man or woman a free ride to the African country of Liberia or the right to stay here. I dont know how many of you know this but the emancipation proclimation was only in affect till the end of hostitlties between the north & south. He, Lincoln had refused to sign the first one in 62 because it was a ( for ever and ever things) As for atrotcities. Missouri has the corner on the market. More than 1500 missourians were murderd by Union troops, Not soldiers,these were civilians. The towns of
Harrisonville
Morristown
Peasent Hill
Dayton
Columbes
Butler
Nevada
Lamar
Carthege
Sherwood
Oceola
Were all burned and looted by Union Troops.
Lawerence,Ks. was the town that all the Loot and slaves were taken. The " free slaves" were given to farmers and businessmen and for all intents and purposes re enslaved. The Horse thievery was so Blatent that when they were sold in Lawerence most of them had papers that stated , OUT OF, MARE, Missouri,by, STUD,Jennison. I dont want to dig to deeply into Lincolns supposed Illnesses but I have read that he MAY have had MARFANS SYNDROME, T.B. Rumatoid artheritis. I dont think it's any secret that he had Dyspepsia and a weak heart. If my memory is correct, on the History channel some scientist say that IF not for the doctors of the time probing the wound in Lincoln's head with thier fingers and steal probes he may have lived. We only science and history to rely on and thank.

If the South had won the War Between the States, Lincolin, Grant, Sherman, Sherdan, and the rest would not have been tried for war crimes, the reason would have been simple. The South was not fighting for control of Northern land, the south would have fought for their indenpedant states to govern themselves like the indipendant European countries did.

The English and French would have reestablish footholds in North America and in the south due to the high war debt.

As for the western areas of the current United States I think the land mass would have been divided up between the Union and Confederate States. There were other states above the Mason Dixon line that wanted to suceed from the Union, ie New Jersey and Deleware. There were also reagions within the Confederacy that were pro Union and would have succeeded from them such as Western North Carolina and Eastern Tennessee which would have become the state of Franklin.

As for slavery; the Confederate Constitution had already declaired the end of slavery before the 13th Amendment was retified.

We would have had two maybe even there seperate ruling bodies here in North America.