Here’s you some food for thought…

Had the South won the war Lincoln would have been taken to court for War Crimes, some of the charges would have been breaking the Constitution, mass murder, the cause of countless numbers of civilian casualties, rapes, pillaging mayhem and God only knows what else. Lawyers have a way of stacking a lot of extra charges on criminals. Lincoln most likely wouldn’t have been assassinated. Thus he would have been in court for quite some time he being a lawyer and knowing how to draaaag out cases and court proceedings especially with his own life on the line.

Freeing the slaves in the South was already in process progressing before the war started. Thus, there would never have been the KKK to stain the Stars and Bars, (Lincoln was the person who founded the KKK when the Southern boys heard of him telling all he was killing folks in the South just to free the slaves). Naturally this got a bunch of folks in the South a bit Poed. The KKK didn’t draw first blood. They were trying to scare the beegeebies out of the blacks dressed in white cloaks and concealing their identity by putting white hoods on their head, (looking like ghosts in the night). In those days a lot of people believed in ghosts, demons and the like, both Blacks and whites. It wasn’t that hard to scare the sht out of anybody during this era. The KKK managed to scare off a lot of black folk but some didn’t scare that easily. These black folk fought back using weapons and the blacks were the first to kill members of the KKK. This wasn’t tolerated by the KKK and then…wellllll, the KKK started to do some real damage and killing of blacks became the norm, usually by hanging black folks.

BUTTTTTT like I said, there would have been NO KKK HAD THE SOUTH WON.

Getting back to if the South had won…There would no longer be a Union. The North would need a government to advise them what to do and aid the peoples in getting them back on their feet. The Yankees would have realized what Lincoln had done and joined the Southern States forming a new United States Government with a Constitution made by the people and for the people. You see, the North lost, with no government they would have had to join the South or suffer the consequences.

We, the people here in North America need each other sooooo united we again would be and once again we’d still be a strong Government and an unbroken Constitution. Lincoln paved the way for his followers to keep breaking the Constitution and rewriting it to suit the government. That’s why we have the Patriot Act, Buckle Up or pay those hefty fines, No Smoking here no smoking there, you have to have insurance and so on and so forth.

I hope Kfed gets to read this.

Travis

This message has been edited. Last edited by: travisab1,

quote:

These black folk fought back using weapons and the blacks were the first to kill members of the KKK.

Ummmm ... this was the only thing I though worth mentioning as to me is just a perfect example of why we need to defend our rights under the second amendment. If former slaves had been allowed to actually have guns then the KKK might have been sent back to it's place as some kind of back bar room debate club. Not sure this belongs in the history topics as this is more of a point/counter point topic on defending the KKK to me. And Lincoln gets dragged into this????

Rom;

Don't forget...there were faaaarrr more slaves that lived and died under the Union Jack than ever under the Stars and Bars. Again, I'm not defending the KKK.

Also don't forget this...the South was in the process of freeing the slaves before the war started. You have to create a job market for ex-slaves so they can have a fair to good life with their freedom to come. This takes time to create paying jobs for so many slaves to be put to work at. You see what happened to the black folk when suddenly freed at the time Gen Grant was forced to give up his four slaves in 1865. HAVOC!!!

It was over a hundred years later before the Blacks started to feel a little freedom in the 1960's and even then a lot died trying to get the freedom ole' Honest Abe promised them a hundred years earlier. Lincoln did nothing for them then and created mile stones of wreckage and damage to the country and to the peoples he was supposed to love while he was on watch.

Try this book it's, the Politically Incorrect guide to THE SOUTH. by Clint Johnson, It's makes some very good points on all of this.

Hello Cavbunny;
I liked that website so much I'm putting a link to it here...
http://www.conservativebookservice.com/products/BookPag...od_cd=c7003#continue

I can't afford the book now but I do like the preface and all the chapters titles say it all...almost.

I know that most if not near most Yankees know what lincoln did was wrong and all the pain he caused on both sides of that stupid war. I dread the fact that Booth killed him. I really think his own government would have taken him to court for war crimes. That's why I believe that Booth was paid by the Union to kill lincoln so the North could make a hero out of lincoln cause some rebel killed him. Thus...the North saves face by not having to put lincoln through the courts for war crimes. The North didn't like lincolns tactics any more than the South.

Remember this...Those two that got killed in the barn and the barn burned and they too burned in that fire. No-one ever proved that Booth was really one of the two that was burned in that fire. I believe he went to Europe and came back to the states when he was sick and in his 60's and a doctor aided Booth in his sickness 'til he died. Booth was placed in a sealed glass coffin and put on display in side shows and circuses 'til the Government stood in and made the Doctor burry Booth.

This I believe to be true.

Travis

P.S.
The part about Booth dying on Garrett's porch...
I don't believe that.

The part about one man giving up at the barn...
I don't believe that either.
Sorry but there are things that just don't add up!!!
Remember this too, Booth new the password to get across the bridge past those soldiers.
There's a lot of made up thingies about the life and histry/Bio of both lincoln and Booth.
You just have to weigh them and take them for what you think they are.

Here's you something to look at while you're thinking I've finally went off my rocker...
http://www.historybuff.com/library/refbooth.html

Are thing getting strange yet???

P.P.S.
OK, OK...Maybe it was South America instead. I've heard both but the fact still remains...He was put on display in side shows and circus'

Maybe sorry, not to sure just yet.

Travis

This message has been edited. Last edited by: travisab1,

Travis,
The book is very good, and worth getting even if it's from the liberty.The North was talking about secession way before the South ever did.
And then there's the black quistion the North owened more slaves then the South ever did.and trement was far more worse up North.
Well in closing.
Long live the South.O I can't say that sorry.

Cavbunny;

You can say that easily and much more. The freedom of speech is still there...Stained like the Crossed Stars and bars butttt, none the less, the government hasn't taken all away...YET

Travis

P.S.

I'm going to read that book one way or another and thanks for the heads up.

Travis

quote:

Originally posted by E_Rommel44:

quote:

These black folk fought back using weapons and the blacks were the first to kill members of the KKK.

Ummmm ... this was the only thing I though worth mentioning as to me is just a perfect example of why we need to defend our rights under the second amendment. If former slaves had been allowed to actually have guns then the KKK might have been sent back to it's place as some kind of back bar room debate club. Not sure this belongs in the history topics as this is more of a point/counter point topic on defending the KKK to me. And Lincoln gets dragged into this????

Rom;

I'm doing this answer just for you...
If the slaves had guns to protect themselves from their masters...
The South would have one the war in 1861...
You see, they'd have killed most of their masters...Folks from the North. The North was really, really hard on their slaves. The South in most part loved their slaves, (considered them as loving peoples) , (trusted them with their children and close family members) and really considered them a part of the family of sorts.

What else can I say???

Travis

P.S.
Naturally there were those nasty cotton growers...Now they were asinine and did treat slaves like beast of burden, These folks would have been killed with the other asinine slave holder of the North. Believe me, Southern folk didn't care for cotton growers ways either. Sort of like we don't really care if the Oil Companies go bankrupt and die where they stand today. We can get along without oil even if we have to ride bicycles 'til someone comes up with a way to once again...power up our motor driven vehicles with an alternative fuel. I'm sure that there are other Southern Asinine slave owners that needed to be shot as well as cotton growers for what they did to their slaves.

Travis

This message has been edited. Last edited by: travisab1,

The North threatened secession three times before the Southern states did. Here's a good read for those of you interested...

"Guess What Folks--Secesson Wasn't Treason
by Al Benson Jr."

Here's the link to this excerpt...

http://www.albensonjr.com/guesswhat.shtml

"It is interesting that those people never mention the fact that the New England states threatened secession three times--that's right three times--before 1860. In 1814 delegates from those New England states actually met in Hartford, Connecticut to consider seceding from the Union. Look up the Hartford Convention of 1814 on the Internet if you want a little background. Hardly anyone ever mentions the threatened secession of the New England states. Most "history" books I've seen never mention it. Secession is never discussed until 1860 when it suddenly became "treasonous" for the Southern states to do it. What about the treasonous intent of the New England states earlier? Well, you see, it's only treasonous if the South does it."

I hope you read this and learn something new about the South...and the North too.

More food for thought...

"The "Hartford Convention"
Dec. 15, 1814-Jan. 4, 1815"

"Finally, in Oct., 1814, the Massachusetts legislature issued a call to the other New England states for a conference. Representatives were sent by the state legislatures of Connecticut, Massachusetts, and Rhode Island; other delegates from New Hampshire and Vermont were popularly chosen by the Federalists. The meetings were held in secret. George Cabot, the head of the Massachusetts delegation and a moderate Federalist, presided. Other important delegates were Harrison Gray Otis (1765-1848), also a moderate, and Theodore Dwight, who served as secretary of the convention. The moderates prevailed in the convention. The proposal to secede from the Union was discussed and rejected, the grievances of New England were reviewed, and such matters as the use of the militia were thrashed out."

The link to this...

http://www.barefootsworld.net/hartford.html

Travis

This message has been edited. Last edited by: travisab1,

Why would Lincoln have been put on trial? If the south won, they wouldn't have occupied the north, only formed their own government.

If the south was planning on freeing the slaves, then the KKK would still have been formed. The KKK was not some social group of disgruntled traitors conferedate soldiers, but formed to keep the former slaves in their place. Freed slaves would need to be terrorized regardless of who freed them.

You don't have a constitutional right to smoke. If you think this falls under "pursuit of happiness" just remember that your rights are limited when they infringe on the rights of others. If you can smoke without me having to inhale it, then you are free to do so.

Simon;

I see you haven't caught up on your reading yet. You still have that North Good...South Bad attitude. No need for anyone group like the KKK.
The North was going to put Jefferson Davis on trial for the death of Lincoln until someone, maybe a lawyer told them to forget that sht. We're in enough trouble with the deaths of over 630,000 Americans on our hands. That's why no-one from the Southern Army was tried for war crimes. The North was at fault totally.

Do some more reading. Follow some of these links I've provided for folks like you. Remember, most Northern folk went to a government controlled school. Down South, we were taught the truth.

As far as smoking right...There should be smoke free bars for folks like you and bars and restaurants for smokers only. I can see they've crept up on you soooo lightly since your hang-ups, vices and ETC...haven't been hit yet. stand by fello It will,your day's a coming when you too get hit below the belt.

So what you are saying is that southerners would have accepted the freed slaves as equals had they been freed by a southern government?

I'll agree with you on the smoking bans in private businesses. I'm speaking of smoking in public places.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by PSimon572:
So what you are saying is that southerners would have accepted the freed slaves as equals had they been freed by a southern government?

1.}The answer to this is mostly yes.

2.}the KKK that you are O so worred about was set up as a War vet's club and was also set up to help the South red it's self of the carpet baggers coming down from the North.
I stil don't know why the Blacks had to come into this at all.
and before you jump on the band wogen. No I am not a biget. one more point is that in most places in the South the KKK has died and is no more.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: <Cavbunny>,

Simon;

I've been up North many a time. I've shipped out of Bayonne, Boston and the like. You have bars and the like that don't allow Blacks, Chicanos, Cubans and all ethnic groups per say. I found that the North is FAAAARRRR more hateful, (and somehow they get by with it even in todays world)to any ethnic group than the South EVER was. NOW...tell me...do you think the Blacks are equal to whites???

Sorry fellow...you lose.

Travis

Thanks Cavbunny;

I agree. This fella has got some book learning to do. You see, the North thought of their slaves as Chattel. The North treated them as beast of burden. In most part...other than those nasty cotton growers and the like the Southerners respected their slaves and in most part treated them as if they were family.

As for myself...I'd never want to own another human being no matter what. However I do know that in most part the slave owners of the South respected their slaves and in most part didn't put them through the HELL the North did to their slaves.

The South would have respected the freed slave as a fellow human being. Although the South may have had a problem with the equality thingy, (after knowing them as former slaves). The North could never in a million years ever consider the Blacks as their equal.

Now that I've pissed off some folks...that's my 2 cents worth

Travis

quote:

do you think the Blacks are equal to whites???

Sorry fellow...you lose.

Travis

Yes, I consider them equal.

I lose what? Your hypothetical question?

I have a lot of book learning to do? I should read more southern history? We all know that only the north historians lie and slant the truth. Everything y'all learn in the south is fact. I spent enough time in the south both in the Coast Guard and 'cuz I have family in Kentucky and Alabama and have heard the "truth".

I guess since it's your question, you can beleive if you want that true roots of inequity in the south is the south losing the Civil War. Inequity in NE is a whole separate issue.

I'm not worried about the KKK. Why would I care about a bunch of rednecks (northern or southern)? I'm their poster boy. Light haired, blue eyed, good arian stock. Except for that little thing that I don't hate like them.

Good answer PSimon572,
Yes we are equal,both white and black we just need to learn to get along better.

Back to the thread title/topic. It is an interesting question---but, whenever someone asks/poses/thinks about it, the Lincolnites divert the topic.

The C.S.A. wanted to have a country that was more based on the Articles of Confederation, such as the 13 Colonies had after the surrender at Yorktown by Cornwallis, up to the time when the "Federalist" penned Constitution was adopted---which took years because several people that fought for independence in the Revolution (War of Independence) thought it was very heavy-handed and put too much power in the hands of the central (Federal) government.

Had The South Won the War...(or shall we say: A peace treaty was signed and they secceded.) Virginia would regain the 6 wayward counties; Maryland, Kentucky, and Missouri would have friendly trade deals/low tariffs/easy travel with the C.S.A.; The Academy at West Point would fall into disrepair and non-use because the men that want to be Army Officers would attend V.M.I. and The Citadel-both of which are in C.S.A. land.

The C.S.A. Shooting teams would win matches each year at international competitions. The C.S.A. Colleges and Seminaries would turn out far superior graduates because the individual States of the C.S.A. would not have the "affirmative-action" quotas that the Federals thrust upon them, nor would the deans and faculty have to change textbooks every year. They would stick with a solid curriculum...not "frothy/feel-good/fluff".

Thousands of people (citizens) from the Federal zone States would migrate every year to a place where the government is smaller, and the taxes are lower. A country that actually believes in the Creator (like so many of the places/plaques in Washington D.C. espouse but just play lip-service), and promotes Faith rather than aiding pagans/atheists/agnostics in bringing down the culture/ethics/morality of the nation.

Personally, I believe that every child born with a sane mind is my equal, (hmmmmmm forgot, I may not be sane at that). Welllll, I used to be. It’s what that child does with his/her sane mind while growing into maturity that is the denominator of his/her ability to maintain that equality thingy. For example…take a good hard look at the Mid East, take a tour through a local prison and listen to the daily news. Need I say more?

I think Swremwin has posted a fair reply. I just learned something new from Swremwin’s reply…a lot. As Swremwin stated some folks tend to dodge the threads title…Had The South Won The War. Now hopefully we have the KKK and the slave issue behind us, what else MAYBE would have happened if the South had won.

Thanks Swremwin for bringing us back to the topic.

Travis

This message has been edited. Last edited by: travisab1,

Hello Travis. Thanks. Frankly I haven't been over here much lately...Especially since the thread that had so many posts,info and links on it was wiped off the boards...