|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||
Military.com Forums Military History Civil War Who was the best general of the Civil War|
Go
|
New
|
Find
|
Notify
|
Tools
|
Reply
|
|
|
Leave request approved GerryRM3 |
Bangfxr: A few point's for you The territorial capitol was moved to Lecompton very shorty after the territory was established. The first election was held in Dec.1854 to elect a territorial Delegate The next election was Mar.30 1855 to elect a territorial legislature. These elections were held in Lawrence. I have always contended that the blame for the Border war falls equally on the free state forces as it dose the pro slavers. If not for the New England Immigrant society who gave money to some of the worst dregs of society in new England to be rid of them and move them to Kansas, The whole history of this region would have had a different out come, Not to mention the entire slavery issue. One thing I want to point out. After the Capitol was moved, the troops from FT.Riley played a very insignificant role in the proceedings as they were nearly 100 MI. away. The troops that were involved were from FT. Leavenworth. John Brown was a Religious zealot who Did not have clue of what was going on in the world. He was only interested in fame, glory and martyrdom. He was a psychopathic murderer who used the Bible as his crutch to kill those he didn't like or disagreed with him. He was the leader of the anti salvers in the Battle of blackjack and had a hand in the Maris de Cygnes Massacre. He had a "cabin'(Blockhouse) 10 MI. From the Massacre. He was one of the leaders of Jayhawkers that raided in to Missouri. I could go on & on but will leave you with this, "John Brown was a footloose Heretic from connecticut with more than a little insanity in his heredity": from the Book;Jennisons Jayhawkers; by Stephn z Starr
|
|||
|
|
New Member |
Gen'l then Capt Nathanial Lyon(who was the 1st union gen'l killed in the war at Wison's Creek, MO.) was posted at Ft Riley and was an ardent abolisionest and was sent out on patrols to stop the bloodshed he would send word out to other abolisinists who were to be picked up by patrols and questioned about thier activities and the indiviual(s) would be gone for a few days and the army moved onto the next location.
|
|||
|
New Member |
Well this is interesting ...I would agree but there are a number of "IFs" ....you know IF John Buford had not soldiered up and decided to hold the high ground the battle may have had a different out come ... IF J Chamberlin had not used the bayonet charge when he did the battle may have had a different out come ...IF my aunt had gonadds she would be my uncle...exct exct exct ...sure, with the benifit of hind sight a lot of things would have been different however I have to think one would have had to have been there to appreciate why some of these things happend like they did .... I do not think the above names mentioned threw the battle due to lack of interest ...there would have to be a logical explination as to why and why not some of these actions took place ... most likely we will never know ... bad judgement has to be partially to blame but it had to have been based on something ... Most of these men were experienced officers so they most likely made a decesion they thought best at the time in the heat of battle ..just so happens it didnt work out for whatever reasons .. OFC |
|||
|
|
Leave request approved GerryRM3 |
I stand corrected again. As I said he troops from FT. Riley Played an insignificant role. While CPT.Lyon was in the Lawrence ,Lecompton & Leavenworth area they operated out of FT. Leavenworth. Lyon did not do as ordered. Instead of arresting the trouble makers he enabled them to remain on the loose. He was the first Yankee Gen. to lose his life ,AT Oak Hills. Caused, I'm sure you know, by the incompetence and cowardly action's of Franz Siegel, The hero of the St.Louis massacre. Which brings out the point I have made on other threads. Many of the Generals we talk of today should have been sculling out Cavalry stables instead of leading the Charge.
|
|||
|
|
Member |
bangfxr.......Stuart WAS NOT out galivanting around. He WAS exactly where he was supposed to be on 30 of June/1 July. He also left over 3000 cavalry troops with the main army. PLEASE, please, get a copy of SABER and SCAPEGOAT, the Suart Gettysburg Controversy" by Mark Nesbitt, and read it carefully.
Why he had a problem getting to Harrisburg area was because a certain corps commander shifted his camp area and didn't tell General Lee! When Stuart marched the way he was supposed to he found TWO corps of the Union Army of the Potomac in his way! What the hell was he supposed to do? Turn around and scrub the mission, or find a way around them and continue on, like he did! There was no Stuart problem over this until 1882 when Walter Taylor at dinner party up North, started it. Stuart was not late ,and followed his orders! I have seen the orders and the follow up letters sent by Lee to him, he did NOT disobey them. Most people probably think his ride around in Maryland and PA in the fall of 1862 was just a road trip. It wasn't he was tasked by Lee to scout out these areas for possible lines of March for the 1863 campaign season. Good lord if I had a dollar every time I've written this or explained it to an audience I'd be rich!!!! Also have you checked out the photo bucket address above. It has some interesting pictures of someone portraying Stuart. |
|||
|
|
New Member |
JP you know from our previous discussions that I am a BIG Jeb fan ...and I have found you sir to be an astue Stuart scholar ...but I have to ask ...if indeed Stuart was innocent as you have stated of not being neglectful in his duty and only following orders ...why did Gen Lee reprimand him when he arrive at Gettysburg? I do not ask this question in a critical way but I would value your opinion ...if in fact he was just following his orders I have a hard time understanding why Gen. Lee had to have a come to Jesus meeting with him ....your thoughts? OFC |
|||
|
|
Leave request approved GerryRM3 |
As to the voting. Joseph Shelby and others rounded up around 400 pro slaver people from Missouri and surrounding areas and voted in the elections for territorial Delegate & territorial legislature. His feeling was. If the free state people from Kansas . Missouri. Massachusetts. and New England could vote , He also could.In one district with only 61 voters a total of 608 votes were cast. I don't think many people understand what happened in the Border war. Things such as the Burned District.The Counties Jackson Cass Bates Vernon, Depopulated and houses Burned down. The Townes of columbus, Dayton, Morristown, Harrisonville & Osceola Burned down. The only town that is of record is Lawrence,Ks.I will go into this Deeper if you would like to on a personal thread at a later time. One small matter, If I may. The territorial Governor of Kansas was A.H. Reeder, Not John Reeder. These are things that were not taught in school in The Kansas I grew up in. |
|||
|
|
Member |
I apologize about my last piece. General Lee didnot have a "Jesus" meeting with Stuart. He did rebuke him and Stuart did take it hard. Too much has been made of this meeting. Ronald Maxwell and I had a long discussion over this at the Farnsworth House in Gettysburg a few years back. Its one part of the movie I did not agree with and I let him know it. Several other people have done the same. Even though the meeting on much lesser scale did take place it was not to the scale as in the book and movie.
Lee had way too much respect for Stuart to really be like shown. They had a very close father and son type relationship. Stuart was like another son to Stuart. I have also come to know and if you think about it,Stuart knew Lee enough to know that he didn't bear grudges and tolerated people's mistakes. Stuart respected Lee, but like many at the time REALLY knew what kind of health and stress Lee was under. Lee was quite honestly the man who was really giving the Confederacy its continued life. That had to have bore on him tremendously. Also Stuart made sure he knew what Lee wanted in the orders and amendments Lee sent to him. I would be wilted and upset too if I had accomplished the mission I had been orederd to do at great hardship and then have my commander chew my a$$. Again I apologize for my last piece, I get bent a bit by all the misinformation that has been put out over the years. Too much has been made of Stuart's light heartedness towards command and his duties. He's also been labeled a "Momma's boy" and that's a fallacy also. He was tough, complex man and commander who basically was ahead of his time in his thinking and fighting. Sorry. |
|||
|
|
Member |
Excuse me, that should be Stuart was like another son to Lee. Hadn't had my coffee yet! wow!
|
|||
|
|
New Member |
JP "rebuked" him for what? Please explain ..if it was not for being late to the battle field and if he did follow orders why was there need for this "father and son" type of scolding ? OFC |
|||
|
|
Member |
Hey guy, I'm sorry I haven't answered your last post sooner, but I had a another bout with the crud, Flu. This time "Hard!" This is the first time I've been out of bed since last Thursday. I'm still not a 100% per cent but getting there.
To answer your question I honestly feel Lee vented his spleen on Stuart. Let off all the steam that had been building up. Stuart being the man he was, his feelings towards Lee, was hurt that he got the a33 chewing that he did. From all the records and accounts I've been privy to, Lee ended the conversation with something similiar to, "Now that you are here, let us see what you can do for this army." Lee was not feeling up to snuff. The records show he visited richmnod in early May of that year and accepted a pitcher of fresh cold butter milk, Yuck, which was a favorite of his. It was unpastuerized and he came down with chest pains and cold like symtoms. The doctors, even them knew about inflamation to the lining of the heart and that was one of the surgeon diagnosed it as. The buttermilk must have contained staff germs that damaged his heart and started his long bout with heart disease. I have asked my own heart doctors about this and they agree with the surgeon from Lee's staff. Inflamation of the paracadiuem from staff infection. Lee had a mild heart attack during the next few weeks. There is also testimony from records and other officer statements that Lee caught dysnetery on the road through Pennsylvania. So I would think the man has not had his orders followed like he wanted,ie, Heth attacking, Ewell not taking the heights on Cemetery ridge, Longstreet already being stubborn and now Stuart not there to meet them. It would make me just abit upset and want somebody to chew a$$ on. Make sense? Especially a man who I had counted on so much apparently letting me down too. I may be wrong, but I've talked this over with several others and they agree, we could be wrong, but based on my experience as a leader and supervisor in the service, it makes the best sense to me of the incident? CIAO! |
|||
|
|
Leave request approved GerryRM3 |
I beg to differ with you. John B. Hood did it at Columbia, Spring Hill & Franklin, TN. Then also at Nashville, TN. After these battles the Army of Tennessee, For all intents and purposes was useless and fairly used up as a fighting force. At Franklin, Five Rebel Generals were killed. Thousands of casualties depleted the ranks. I don't remember all the details but his demise started at Atlanta and continued on to Nashville. I remember a place called Tunnel Hill. not much else but the battle losses could have been worse if not for some more qualified Generals doing what Hood failed to do. I could be wrong, and I stand to be corrected. This message has been edited. Last edited by: OLDAO, |
|||
|
|
Member |
A-B-S-O-L-U-T-E-L-Y! The one general in the CW that completely destroyed an army as an effective force, John B. Hood.
|
|||
|
|
Leave request approved GerryRM3 |
|
|||
|
|
Member |
When I responded on this it was meant, not an enemy army, but your own. Yes, it is correct about Grant, but he didn't destroy his own army like Hood did his command. We're on the same street just a few blocks apart.
|
|||
|
|
Leave request approved GerryRM3 |
To JPOPE, BANGFXR & JAKE SHARKEY. This will be my last post on this thread. I have enjoyed myself Immensely on this thread. I like it when four men can make their point's and not get into the name calling and other crap that goes on. To make my last point. John Bell Hood was from Kentucky. He Graduated 47 in a class of 54.He was nearly expelled in his senior year for cheating and other violations of the Cadets Code of Conduct. Until the loss of the use of his arm at Gettysburg. He was considered a soldier general and adequate field commander. His wounds and personal life soon got the best of him and after the loss of his leg, He became addicted to laudanum and alcohol. The man should have been retired and sent home to be revered for his service. But in the tradition of the W.P.P.A. & the Hudson River YACHT Club he was kept on. I will not repeat the same thread that is posted on Franklin. BANGFXR, I have enjoyed the banter & point,C/P, with you You have done you history proud. Mr. POPE. Once again we meet on the thread of History. As always it was enjoyable. As to my last two posts, I don't know what happened but when I attempted to EDIT the first one, It became a second one. I never take umbrage with one who says I'm correct. To you, Gentlemen. TO OUR NEXT POST. I have a class A liberty card & the GIG is loading.
|
|||
|
|
Member |
OLDAO, it has been enjoyable and I must say informative. I've been studying the American Civil War for over forty years and have found out there is a vast amount of knowledge I have yet to learn about it. In the past ten years new items have appeared to change some of my opinions. There has also been items, books and pictures that have turned up that have confirmed others opinions that I have.
I have met some incredibily stupid experts on the war and some very knowledgeable and talented amateurs along the way. One of arrogant butts insists, to this day, that NO repearing arms were used during the war. Despite documents and pictures to the contrary. Same man that says Confederates only wore one shade of gray, everything else is fake. I know sounds incedible, but its true. Another swears up and down that a Spencer rifle or other repeating arms of that era, ie, the Henry, could not have suffered a touching off of the ammo if dropped on the buttplate. Yet there are documents on file with the US Army that deal with that subject. So it goes on. Frederick the Great once talked about the mind being like a fine edged blade. He said, and I'm paraphrasing, "The mind is like a fine honed edged blade, sharp and useful, but it must be exercised and useful, or it becomes dull, rusted and useless." I've always tried to live by that and kept my mind active, useful and OPEN. Its a shame we'll not have your comments, but things change and life moves on. Fair winds and following seas, shipmate. D.L. Hinkle AD1 USN (Retired) |
|||
|
|
New Member |
OLDAO Sir it has been a pleasure to have exchanged viewpoints with you. I am by no means an expert. I have been doing living history from 1986 to now and I am still a novice. I hope to exchange viewpoints at a later time with you sir. i wish to give you an old irish saying
" May the sun shine always on yer face May the wind blow gently apon yer back. May the trail gently rise up to meet you May God keep you in the hollow of his hands" God grant that yea be ta havein a pint er to ta raise in toasts ta friends far n near. you Sir will be sorely missed. George D. Fenn SFC INARNG Pvt. Co A 35th Indiana / 1st Irish Bona-Na-Croin (coller nor crown |
|||
|
|
Leave request approved GerryRM3 |
Gentlemen
I did not mean I was going away, I meant just on this subject. I have been out of town at a convention and just returned. I will be looking for other subject's and threads by all of you. If I think I have an intelligent comment to add I will do so. I want to thank you for the comment's. I just hope I can carry this head around until the swelling goes down. C. Regnier Formerly of Col. Benjamin Elliott's Scouts Gen. Joseph Shelby's 5th. Missouri The Iron Brigade Undefeated |
|||
|
|
Member |
Great! Glad to hear that! While I'm here, I'll be wishin' ya happy a Saint Patty's Day! I always did like the joke "Do you know why the good lord invented whiskey? To keep the Irish from conquering the world."
Have a good day, me lad! |
|||
|
| Powered by Eve Community | Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
Military.com Forums Military History Civil War Who was the best general of the Civil War
