I finaly got the chance to see "Rides with the Devil" which was about the Missouri gorilla warfare going on between James Lanes & Doc Jennison's Redlegs (Jayhawkers union criminals) versus the southron men ie William Quantrel,Bloody Bill Anderson (Bushwackers confederate criminals) It showed the bloody hatred type fighting as well as what drove some of the bushwackers to real bloodleting of any union man when they get news of the old tobbacco warehouse / jail for the families of the bushwackers in Kansas City had colapsed killing and maiming many of the people.
As well as the sacking of Lawrance, Kansas.
I thought it was fairly well done to include the in fighting and animosity among the bushwackers themselves.

quote:

Originally posted by bangfxr:
I finaly got the chance to see "Rides with the Devil" which was about the Missouri gorilla warfare going on between James Lanes & Doc Jennison's Redlegs (Jayhawkers union criminals) versus the southron men ie William Quantrel,Bloody Bill Anderson (Bushwackers confederate criminals) It showed the bloody hatred type fighting as well as what drove some of the bushwackers to real bloodleting of any union man when they get news of the old tobbacco warehouse / jail for the families of the bushwackers in Kansas City had colapsed killing and maiming many of the people.
As well as the sacking of Lawrance, Kansas.
I thought it was fairly well done to include the in fighting and animosity among the bushwackers themselves.

Bangfxr. I watched some of the movie being filmed. Most of it was shot around the kansas City & jackson county areas. lawerance, Ks. was shot in the old abandoned town of Pattonsburg,Mo. I went to the premiere here in kansas city. I have to agree with you on the accuracy of the film. It came about becaus the producers and Director listened to what the reenactors had to say. You have started a very good post. I hope it go'es on for a long time

That was a great movie and I wish there were more like it. It's a lot like The Outlaw Josey Wales but much better, as there is a human side to the story in Ride with the Devil.

Sadly, it was censored by pressure groups and most people have never heard of it, and it is clearly economically unrealistic to make movies that portray REAL history, as they can be shut down by petty tyrants with enough cash to bring a lawsuit.

You've got that right Thrust. I know of two movies that were held up in production because of groups bringing lawsuits or injunctions against what they were portraying.
I finally got to see the whole movie "Riding with the Devil." Very well done, especially with the tactics and movements of the raiders against the Federal cavalry.
Yes, your statement about making movies that are accurate to history is very correct.
I found uot portraying JEB Stuart that i had to present some of the legend, but keep the portrayal in prespective, especially in the character of the man. Many people still consider him to be slightly air headed and flamboyant without any real military talent. That's just not true. But many times that's what they wanted. I found that out to be true when speaking with my good friend Steve Alexander who portrays Custer.

quote:

Originally posted by ordmate:

quote:

Originally posted by bangfxr:
I finaly got the chance to see "Rides with the Devil" which was about the Missouri gorilla warfare going on between James Lanes & Doc Jennison's Redlegs (Jayhawkers union criminals) versus the southron men ie William Quantrel,Bloody Bill Anderson (Bushwackers confederate criminals) It showed the bloody hatred type fighting as well as what drove some of the bushwackers to real bloodleting of any union man when they get news of the old tobbacco warehouse / jail for the families of the bushwackers in Kansas City had colapsed killing and maiming many of the people.
As well as the sacking of Lawrance, Kansas.
I thought it was fairly well done to include the in fighting and animosity among the bushwackers themselves.

The warehouse /store that was used as a woman's prison was in the 1300 block of Grand ave. The Building was owned by (depending whitch version you read) George caleb Bingham or his uncle. The women were all Friends, relatives, sisters or wifes of Quantrill,Anderson or almost any rebel you can name. The youngest was a 10 year old sister of Bill Anderson. She had a 12 LBS ball & chain shackled to her leg's. The women were "taken in to custody" simply because they were related to Guerillas. The popular story is that the yankees removed floor braces and undermined the support columns. Five of eleven were killed in the collapes of the building. The 10 year old, Martha Anderson's leg's were crushed. An older sister of Anderson, Josaphine was buried in the rubble and died when the Yankees would not permit anyone to dig her out.Cherity McCorkle Kerr. was a sister of John Mc Corkle & wife of Nathen Kerr. Two of Quantrill's best. This act of cruelty was the reason that Lawernce, KS. was raided & burned.

Here are a few book's on this subject.
Quantrill of Missouri, (Paul R. Peterson)
The Devil knows how to ride, ( Edward E. Leslie
Noted Guerrillas, (John N, Edwards)
Battles & Biographies of MissouriAans, (W.L. Webb)
A book I would reccomend is, Three years with Quantrill,(A true story told by his scout, John McCorkle), by (O.S. Barton)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ordmate,

Well those look like good books I'll have to find to take across the pond when I head to Afghanistan some time in near future.

quote:

Originally posted by bangfxr:
Well those look like good books I'll have to find to take across the pond when I head to Afghanistan some time in near future.

I can give you thr publisher & printer's names. Th book Noted Guerrillias, to the best of my knowledge is out of print. Mine is a reprint of the original.it was printed in 1996. I have several other book's on the subject that I can tell you about. Some of them are in local book stores here in the K.C.,MO & independance area. Let me know when you want to get them .I will make a few phone call's for you.

ordmate you sir a gentleman I will most definatly let you know when I would like to obtain them. Right know I have to get other things addressed. Sir I thank you very much.
Your Obedient Servant

You are very welcome. When you are ready, I will check with the store's on the availability, then give you the phone numbers. My son is getting ready for deployment to the cat box. He is in a stryker unit at Ft.Lewis.

Chuck, my oldest son came up from Memphis for his grandmother's funeral. He brought me a 6 foot, very petite, pretty, dark haired surprise! My new daughter-in-law!!
He lost his wife to illness over a year ago and now has finally found someone new.
Secretly, I'm hoping for word of a new grandchild by Easter........Maybe?

quote:

Originally posted by bangfxr:
I finaly got the chance to see "Rides with the Devil" which was about the Missouri gorilla warfare going on between James Lanes & Doc Jennison's Redlegs (Jayhawkers union criminals) versus the southron men ie William Quantrel,Bloody Bill Anderson (Bushwackers confederate criminals) It showed the bloody hatred type fighting as well as what drove some of the bushwackers to real bloodleting of any union man when they get news of the old tobbacco warehouse / jail for the families of the bushwackers in Kansas City had colapsed killing and maiming many of the people.
As well as the sacking of Lawrance, Kansas.
I thought it was fairly well done to include the in fighting and animosity among the bushwackers themselves.

And Lawrence, the Freestaters' headquarters, was also sacked a few years before the war by the "Border Ruffians." This was during the time John Brown and his sons were operating in "Bloody Kansas."

(BTW: I am co-writer of a screenplay, "John Brown's War")

quote:

Originally posted by JPope:
Chuck, my oldest son came up from Memphis for his grandmother's funeral. He brought me a 6 foot, very petite, pretty, dark haired surprise! My new daughter-in-law!!
He lost his wife to illness over a year ago and now has finally found someone new.
Secretly, I'm hoping for word of a new grandchild by Easter........Maybe?

Thats great darryl. Verry happy for you. This is a verry interesting thread. One I can get my teeth into.

Jeannot23. I have perused the 12 book's that are in my small library on the border war's in Kansa & Missouri , I cannot find anything about the sacking of lawrence,ks prior to the war. Altho I am hoping you are correct. It's a shame the act cannot be redone with better results now. If you could give me some Dates i would be most appricaitive.

quote:

Originally posted by bangfxr:
ordmate you sir a gentleman I will most definatly let you know when I would like to obtain them. Right know I have to get other things addressed. Sir I thank you very much.
Your Obedient Servant

Bangfxr, I hope I havnt acted like a know it all. I have a tendency to go overboard when I find a subject I am familiar with. .
Here are two places you can try when you want to.
James counry merchantile ,Liberty,Mo.
Ph.# 816-781-9473. They also have a line on just about every tailor that makes uniforms for any war or period you need as well as an excelent selection of books on the Civil war & the Border war.

two trails publishing/Blue & Grey book store.
Independance,MO.
Ph# 816-252-9909, this place is open on week ends only. I'm sure you have stores in your area that you can try.

ordmate Do you know Dell Warron and his missus ?
(propritor of James Cnty Mercintile) I've known that rascle for years. I visted with him and missus for about 2 hours at Gettysburg this year. I always make it a point to buy paper ladies or something from him at events, been doing it sence my days with the 9th Texas Infy and 8th Kansas Infy late 80's early 90's

quote:

Originally posted by ordmate:

quote:

Originally posted by JPope:
Chuck, my oldest son came up from Memphis for his grandmother's funeral. He brought me a 6 foot, very petite, pretty, dark haired surprise! My new daughter-in-law!!
He lost his wife to illness over a year ago and now has finally found someone new.
Secretly, I'm hoping for word of a new grandchild by Easter........Maybe?

Thats great darryl. Verry happy for you. This is a verry interesting thread. One I can get my teeth into.

Jeannot23. I have perused the 12 book's that are in my small library on the border war's in Kansa & Missouri , I cannot find anything about the sacking of lawrence,ks prior to the war. Altho I am hoping you are correct. It's a shame the act cannot be redone with better results now. If you could give me some Dates i would be most appricaitive.

Lawrence was established in 1854 by antislavery settlers (many from the New England Emigrant Aid Company), and it immediately became a magnet for proslavery violence during the era. The village had been previously besieged in December 1855, but no outright attack on the village was made at that time. The event that led to the Sack of Lawrence was the shooting of Douglas County Sheriff Samuel Jones on April 23, 1856, while he was attempting to make an arrest in Lawrence. On May 11, federal Marshal J.B. Donaldson proclaimed that the rebellious citizenry of Lawrence had interfered with the execution of warrants against the "Free-State" legislature, which had been set up in opposition to the official proslavery territorial government. Building on this proclamation and a finding by a grand jury that Lawrence's Free State Hotel was actually built as a fort, Sheriff Jones collected a posse of 750 southerners to enter Lawrence, disarm the citizens, wreck the press, and destroy the Free State Hotel.

[edit] Sacking

On May 21, 1856, forces led by Sheriff Jones gathered closer to the town. A large force was stationed on Mount Oread and cannon planted so as to cover and command the place. The house of Lawrence resident Charles Robinson was taken as headquarters for the Marshal and the officers of his army. On every road leading to the town and on the opposite side of the river, detachments of troops were posted to prevent escape from such justice as the marshal and sheriff were now prepared to mete out. The forces mustered two flags. The blood-red flag, on which was inscribed "Southern rights," floated side by side that day with the "stars and stripes."

The two printing offices were hacked, the presses destroyed, and the types thrown in the river. The planned work was finished by destroying the Free State Hotel. The first shot was fired from a cannon on the opposite side of Massachusetts Street by David Rice Atchison, but it failed to hit the building. About fifty shots were afterwards fired with little effect upon the solid walls. Next the posse attempted to blow it up. Several kegs of gunpowder were exploded within, with no appreciable damage to the walls. Its destruction was finally caused by an incendiary, and in the early evening it was a roofless, smoldering ruin. This work was followed by petty robberies all through the half-deserted town. As the men left, they burned Robinson's private dwelling on Mount Oread.

There was one fatality, a slavery proponent killed by falling masonry.[1]

quote:

Originally posted by bangfxr:
ordmate Do you know Dell Warron and his missus ?
(propritor of James Cnty Mercintile) I've known that rascle for years. I visted with him and missus for about 2 hours at Gettysburg this year. I always make it a point to buy paper ladies or something from him at events, been doing it sence my days with the 9th Texas Infy and 8th Kansas Infy late 80's early 90's

Yessir I know them. Not real well but well enough. I was at the store yesterday. Talked to Jeanie. I was a part of the troop they more or less sponsered. I have been buying things for reenactments from them for around 10 years. DEL is at some sham battle this week end.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ordmate,

Ride With The Devil is available on that movie site with the red envelopes ( not sure if it's ok to use store or site names ). I have seen it in the past and just added it to my request list. Excellent flick.
Fred

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ordmate:
Jeannot23.
You have done well. I did not remember that incident. Hardly a sacking. One building burned. Two printing presses destroyed and one man killed. The sacking was done by a U.S. Marshall's posse. My only regret is that they didn't burn the whole town. The state of missouri had six town's burned to the ground and everything stolen.
Harrisonville
columbes
morristown
dayton
Oceola
Pleasent Hill

I believe it was the sacking of Lawrence that led John Brown and his sons to kill five pro-slavery settlers along the Pottawatomie.

quote:

Originally posted by Jeannot23:
I believe it was the sacking of Lawrence that led John Brown and his sons to kill five pro-slavery settlers along the Pottawatomie.

Nothing can justify John Brown's evil and cruelty. That's not even an excuse: The abolitionists provoked violence by sending murder-literature and agitprop to slaves and got what they deserved when they were wasted. A true cause and effect situation is the curbing of slave education because of abolitionist evil and stupidity.