My mother would always include my middle name when I was in deep Doo Doo. That's how I could tell what was about to hit. I remember when I was younger I'd take off running away from her. I knew if I got out of the house and to the driveway, she wouldn't chase me past the mailbox. OKAY...... I was thirteen when I could out run her to the mailbox! Tells you something! Yes, the man is right about George McC and the Seven Pines. That faulty thinking and intelligence almost got him whipped. Old Stonewall was not himself during that time. He was just a bit indecsive, more than was usual. If you have the most powerful army on the continent and it is loyal to you, wouldn't you think to use it or not use it, especially when you had the governemnt by the short hairs in controlling that army? I think in McClellan's mind being the savior to the republic went to his head somewhat. Its my army and I'll use it as I see fit. I believe his actions, especially coming into his quarters and going up to bed, ignoring Lincoln is the complete act of rebellion in its self. Lincoln should fired him right there and had him put under close hack! I'll be out for a couple days guys, we have main bathroom all torn out. I have plenty of work to do the next couple of days. Enjoy yourselves.
McClellan certainly was arrogant, as his correspondence with his wife confirms, but it is true that Lincoln and Stanton (Secretary of War) interferred with his war plans. Stanton was a radical abolitionist - which meant that he was ignorant, indifferent to human life, and stubborn - and he personally hated McClellan on account that McClellan was not possessed of a hatred for the South. In other words, he was too professional. What that meant was that his command was constantly undermined and the administration actually kept more troops in defense of Washington than it allowed McClellan in the field. Grant, on the other hand, was given command of all Union armies and he still lost both battles against Lee. At this point the material and manpower disparity between the two powers meant that these were Lost Victories, but victories nonetheless. Now I don't think anyone would argue that McClellan was better than Grant as a tactician, even though he was loved by his men (somehow), but seeing that Lee beat at least three armies with the full manpower compliment that McClellan might have had, including two against the vaunted General grant, I think it is reasonable to say that there was no one who could have gained a victory on the Peninsula once Lee took over. That should go more into the 'best generals' topic, but putting McClellan's failures in context, we still see that Lee was the best general of the war and of American history.
Think about this for awhile. We have been talking about several Union Generals. Now correct me if I'm wrong. Meade lost almost every fight he was in. McClellan, His greatest claim to fame was Inventing a saddle. Burnside, He grew hair on his face, (IE) sideburns. Butler, Known for his inhumane treatment of the vanquished. Sickles, Claimed temporary insanity as justification for murder. Bragg, Ineptitude. A.P.Hill about the same. Hood, opiates, alcohol & Ineptitude. What dose this say about the Officer Corps before & during the Civil War. Do you think there was a good old Boy's society or am I just fantasizing ? then again, I could be wrong. OOP's I threw in some REB. Generals too sorry bout that.
Still got the bathroom torn up, but last night started the putting it back together. decided this morning to take a break for abit. MCClellan had plenty of troops to take care of Lee if he had used them. He submitted them piece meal where a massed formation would have been more to his advantge. I agree to a certain point that Lee was one of the greatest generals in history, but he was fighting a losing war. He could not over time replace the men he lost. Grant saw this and knew if he continually hammered Lee, got on the seat of his pants and didin't let go, like a bulldog, eventually he would catch him and destroy him. That is the better stratiegist. Awhile back I wrote about having an operations section to your staff and conducting a campaign where EVERY fight is beneficial to your overall success. American generals and militaries for the most part didn't have this. The Union until Grant had these great plans but, one defeat in the campaign and its over! Grant said, Yep he whipped us, but it doesn't mean we're attacking him tomorrow morning, not six months, or three months from now. That's what happened before. The Union generals didn't keep up the pressure. So LEE and the Army of northern virginia stayed alive. Gotta go. Back soon!
From what little I know about "Mars" Robert. In my opinion, His one and greatest failing was that once his mind was made up It took an act of God to change it. Once he had a plan of attack, no matter what the odds or obstacle, He wasn't going to change his mind.
I agree, but he did listen to his subordinates. He usually didn't decide to change once his mind was made up, but he did listen to dissenting views. He was a great general, there is no denying that and he did things that the other generals didn't and wouldn't. I have long felt that this gave the "Shock" value he needed to survive. It just threw the opposing commanders into a state of shock and left them staggering around not knowing how to react. By the time they did it was TOO late!! Then giving the man and his army time to recover before hitting them again, fatal mistakes!
I would have to say that Benard Bee was one of the worst for being the first general officer kiiled in the war ...but the worst I think would have to be Richard Ewell ...what a LOOSER !
Originally posted by OneFatCat: I would have to say that Benard Bee was one of the worst for being the first general officer kiiled in the war ...but the worst I think would have to be Richard Ewell ...what a LOOSER !
OFC
I have read article or two about this man and I have to agree with you about Ewell. If there is any truth in the book 'Killer Angels" my favorite part would be when General Trimble tells LEE that he will not serve under Ewell again. then in truth, Jubal Early was no shining beacon of command either.
It has been a while since anyone has posted on this thread so I will give you a few thoughts. Worst General. MEADE, At petersburg was it not his interference that caused the fiasco at the crater. I remember reading that he took no interest in it until it came time to blow it, then changed the troops that were to be used as well as the way they were to be sent in After the humiliation of a sorry defeat he claimed he had no part in the planning or organisation. Burnside was the recipient of the blame and was sacked by grant on Meade's word. Later Grant said had he known all of the information he would have relieved a different man. To me it seems that Meade had the ability to step in a large pile of H.S. and have the smell get stuck on some one else. Correct me if I'm wrong
The attacking troops at the crater were switched at the last moment and were not properly briefed. They WERE NOT supposed to enter the crater but go around it. Probably not Meade's fault. I believe that Grant would rate Meade higher than his commander early in the war, John C Fremont who was a great explorer but a lousy general. Grant once related this about an encounter with Fremont:
"He sat in a room in full uniform with his maps before him. When you went in he would point out one line or another in a mysterious manner, never asking you to take a seat. You left without the least idea of what he meant or what he wanted you to do."
This message has been edited. Last edited by: scooter_mech,
Originally posted by scooter_mech: The attacking troops at the crater were switched at the last moment and were not properly briefed. They WERE NOT supposed to enter the crater but go around it. Probably not Meade's fault. I believe that Grant would rate Meade higher than his commander early in the war, John C Fremont who was a great explorer but a lousy general. Grant once related this about an encounter with Fremont:
"He sat in a room in full uniform with his maps before him. When you went in he would point out one line or another in a mysterious manner, never asking you to take a seat. You left without the least idea of what he meant or what he wanted you to do."
I think the jury is still out on Fremont being a great explorer. He hired a guide named BILL WILLIAMS to help him find a road to the west through southern Colorado in the winter. Bill Williams was a lunatic who wasn't sure what color the sky was. The end result was, several people froze or starved to death and fremont ,to my knowledge never lead another expedition. It was only through the intervention of his father in law, Thomas Hart Benton. (I believe) that he wasn't sent packing. This same father in law got him a command in Missouri which he botched up and was sent east where he continued his bumbling way's. The troops that were changed at the last moment were two units of colored troops. A subordinate of Meade's told him they wouldn't fight and he needed to use another unit. Just prior to blowing the charge two White units were exchanged. They went into the crater and the Black troops followed. At least thats how I remember it. I can be corrected.
