quote:

And how is it that Lincoln was elected to begin with? He only received 40% of the popular vote. Southern Democrats split the vote of their party by failing to pick one candidate instead of three; Breckenridge, Douglas, and Bell. It's the "fault" of the South that Lincoln was elected!

I agree with you there buttttt, If you knew rebels, (and I use this word loosely)had broken into your home and you warned them numbers of times to get the hell out...what would you do if they said up yours??? You'd most likely get some friends and burn the asinine outta your home.

This is exactly what happened in Ft Sumter. Those asinine were in a foreign country, flying a foreign flag and held a valuable port of entry to foreign trade ETC… not to mention thumbing their nose at a legally seceded states right activist state.

No-one was killed in that take back fort incident. Lincoln provoked the war by his actions to bring food and supplies to his men of war in a sovereign country not of his own.

Lincoln, at this time should have been seriously impeached and brought before the courts for his criminal actions. Too bad, the North stood behind this war criminal. Today, America would have been a far better place and the constitution would still be intact. This secession would have been short lived and the states would once again be whole. The South only wanted to be free of BIG Government and excessively HIGH taxes the North never had to pay.

Travis

Travis,I cant believe I came across someone on here that knows the true story behind the war between the states.You are the man.On 20 Dec.1860,the Ordinance of Secession was unanimously adopted by South Carolina.After that they ask the north to vacate Fort Sumter.The north refused,the south instructed the north not to resupply,to do so would be an act of war.On 8 Jan.1861 the north sent the Star of the West(a sidewheeler)to resupply and bring secret reinforcements to the fort.At this time is when the cadets of The Citadel fired upon the ship.Federal forces evacuated the fort on 12 Apr.1861 after the bombardments by the Confederates under Gen.Beauregard.So my way of reasoning says the Yanks started the war by their refusal to leave southern soil.Also good ole honest Abe owned and held slaves up until right before the presidental election.He released them fearing that the ownership of them would hurt his chances of winning the election.Have to go now,I type too dog gone slow.

Quote From Sarg Dave
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The north refused,the south instructed the north not to resupply,to do so would be an act of war.On 8 Jan.1861 the north sent the Star of the West(a sidewheeler)to resupply and bring secret reinforcements to the fort.At this time is when the cadets of The Citadel fired upon the ship.Federal forces evacuated the fort on 12 Apr.1861 after the bombardments by the Confederates under Gen.Beauregard.So my way of reasoning says the Yanks started the war by their refusal to leave southern soil.
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Well Said Sarg,

One day soon history will take its rightful place and lincoln lovers will have to abide...He was a true war monger that the North made a hero out of. They had no alternatives but to make him a hero orrrrr assume the facts...he was a mass murderer. I only wish Booth hadn't killed him. The North couldn't then call him a hero buttttt they'd have to explain how just one man could cause soooo much destruction to his country and its peoples there of. The secession was supposed to be short lived to rid our great nation of imperialists. lincoln was that in all respects and the North had to have him killed or suffer the consequences of being a power monger society owned by the government. I truly believe that the Northern Government paid Booth to kill him. He had the secret password to cross that bridge, it’s been said he went to South America, (not in the old barn thingy). Some say he went to Europe. Some say he came back to the states in his 60’s sick and a doctor took care of him and after his death the Doctor mummified his body, placed him in a sealed glass coffin and put him on display in carnivals and side shows until the government made the doctor bury him to take him out of Americans view…Who knows?

All I can say is Lincoln life has got to repent and I wish the North had done it through the courts instead of paying some actor from the South to kill him and give the North reason to make this asinine an American hero. He will repe!!!If it takes a thousand years…he’ll repent. Shooting him was too easy.

Our country needs to know the truth. Saving face is no cop out…The North and the South needs to know…

Enough said...

Travis

I totaly agree with the north having Lincoln killed.They didnt want him talking.Travis, have you ever read the book,Embattled Banner by Don Hinkle?If not you owe it to yourself to do so.The truth comes out in it.Dave

quote:

have you ever read the book,Embattled Banner by Don Hinkle?

Sarg;

No, I haven't read the book. Sounds like a winner buttttt, I haven't the money to buy such a book. I do a lot of research through the internet and in libraries. Books...I don't need no stinkin' books...LOL

I would like to know what is between those covers of that book though.

Thanks for the info...next time in the library...I'll find out what's between those covers of said book. I'll surely post my find in this book here...

Travis

quote:

Originally posted by wilddavemsg:
I totaly agree with the north having Lincoln killed.They didnt want him talking.Travis, have you ever read the book,Embattled Banner by Don Hinkle?If not you owe it to yourself to do so.The truth comes out in it.Dave

OK... just what was it that the North did not want President Lincoln talking about?

quote:

Originally posted by wilddavemsg:
I totaly agree with the north having Lincoln killed.They didnt want him talking.Travis, have you ever read the book,Embattled Banner by Don Hinkle?If not you owe it to yourself to do so.The truth comes out in it.Dave

You must be referring to, Embattled Banner: A Reasonable Defense of the Confederate Battle Flag. I was unable to locate any reviews of this book by recognised historians. Only bloggers whose opinions vary greatly. Some think it great. Others point out grave errors by the author.
Do you have a link to a credible review?

quote:

OK... just what was it that the North did not want President Lincoln talking about?

Scooter;

I'll find the answer to that question next week for sure and will post it here. This has got to be a mind bender.

Travis

quote:

Originally posted by wilddavemsg:
I totaly agree with the north having Lincoln killed.They didnt want him talking.Travis, have you ever read the book,Embattled Banner by Don Hinkle?If not you owe it to yourself to do so.The truth comes out in it.Dave

Hey Dave. Just what is it that the North did not want Lincoln talking about. The world wonders...

quote:

Originally posted by wilddavemsg:
I totaly agree with the north having Lincoln killed.They didnt want him talking.Travis, have you ever read the book,Embattled Banner by Don Hinkle?If not you owe it to yourself to do so.The truth comes out in it.Dave

Hello Dave;

Welllll, I just got back from the library. They didn't have it and no library in the state does. However she said Target may still have it for $22.00 and E-Bay or one of those online book stores may have it...

It's up to you now, can you give us a clue or an excerpt? Now you've got me wondering.

Looks like you've got Scooter interested as well. Come on...give it up. What was it they didn't want Abesy Babesy to talk about.

Travis

P.S. She said the book was about 10 years old and probably off most shelves because it's out of print.

quote:

On 20 Dec.1860,the Ordinance of Secession was unanimously adopted by South Carolina.After that they ask the north to vacate Fort Sumter.The north refused,the south instructed the north not to resupply,to do so would be an act of war.On 8 Jan.1861 the north sent the Star of the West(a sidewheeler)to resupply and bring secret reinforcements to the fort.At this time is when the cadets of The Citadel fired upon the ship.Federal forces evacuated the fort on 12 Apr.1861 after the bombardments by the Confederates under Gen.Beauregard.So my way of reasoning says the Yanks started the war by their refusal to leave southern soil.

So what does any of this have to do with Lincoln. The Star of the West was sent by then President.....wait for it....guess who....none other than.....James Buchanan. Lincoln didn't take office until March 1861, well after the cadets fired on the re-supply ship. So it was actually Buchanan's fault? Or do you hate Lincoln so much that you'll ignore this fact?

Travis,Ill have to scan the pages again.Its been a few years since Ive read it.I also have the entire Time Life set on the civil war.All 18 volumes.Thank god they just sent a volume every couple of months or I wouldnt have been able to buy them.I also have The Photograpic History of the Civil war(5 big volumes)which I found at a big flea market that goes to Louisville one or two times a year.Thats what you should do check out the flea markets (big ones)that come where you live.I got the Embattled Banner at one of the battle sites I went to a few years back.Cant remember which one, thinking Georgas Stone Mountain,or in Richmond Va(our nations capital).I have a few more books on the War between the states.One I really like is:The Civil War Day By Day.Its around here somewhere,I just have to find it.Then I can give you more info on it.Im been going though a divorce and the Bit-h took everything she could get that meant anything to me.But I changed the locks,thats why I still have the ones Ive got.Will get back at ya later. Dave

Excuse you psimon572 Yankee liberal at no time did my post say anything about Lincoln.It said the NORTH.Is that simple enough simon.And hate Lincoln,now why would I do that.After all he was born here in Kentucky.Have you ever thought about two presidents being in office at the same time and both from Kentucky.Good ole two faced honest Abe and our beloved Jefferson Davis.Thank you for your response on this thread.Next time you want to make a total azz out of yourself.FEEL FREE bro.

OK Dave;

When you get a chance pass it on.

I quit getting married after the divorce in ’87. Stopped having a steady GF after ’99. Sheesh, you’d be surprised what a set of keys can do when given to live in’s.LOL…hmmmm maybe I should say LOL stands for Lost Out Lots. I too have Voo-Coo’s of Lincoln era photos.

As for Simon…Wake ta hell up fella. I told you Lincoln got over 630,000 Americans killed didn’t I, in a stupid war he could have easily prevented buttttt chose to have his fellow Americans bite the dust, slaughtered, put six feet under if not buried in a MASS FREAKIN’ GRAVE???

There’s NO REASON on EARTH that is grave enough to kill your fellow American.

Can you think of one good reason? If so, make it apply in todays world and who in hell would get away with it for this reason. SICK, SICK, SICK…

I myself don’t hate Lincoln. I just want him to take his rightful place in history and NOT AS A FREAKIN’ HERO.

I’d say that within the next couple of years those BIG Abey Babe statues are going to have some addendums and some BIG Steel Plates put over this hero bit so folks will no longer be confused about the truth and the fiction set forth by a biased government cover-up.

Travis

quote:

Yankee liberal

Holy cow...everyone else on here calls me an ultra conservative. My question about Lincoln comes about because of the topic. The hate thing was aimed more at Travis than you. But you did spend a bunch of time in an earlier post licking his boots, so what the heck.

My parents and in-laws are all from Kentucky. Mom is from around Mayfield and Dad had family from there too. My in-laws are from eastern Ky, Whitesburg area.

And since I don't recognize the southern states as an independent nation, JD was never actually president. And thank you for allowing me the right to post as I desire, just 'cuz your southern brain can't wrap itself around someone having a different opinion doesn't make them wrong.

Have a great day and try not to get too stressed out.

quote:

The hate thing was aimed more at Travis than you. But you did spend a bunch of time in an earlier post licking his boots, so what the heck.

Simon;

That was a direct insult to Dave. No-one has accused you of suckin' the boney butt of Ole' Honest Abe. If you by chance have any kinfolk that has ancestors who fought for the South...talk to them. If they are 55 years or older they'll tell you the real America before it was taken over ALL the way. You'll have a lot of apologies to make coming soon. Remember, what you say now will haunt you later. It's one thing to be ignorant. It's another to avoid the facts that come to you in your every day life. Watch the news; see how the government is getting caught in today’s world of politics? Look at ENRON, The banks of the DC senators. Baseball, football, all the cover-ups are fast coming to an end. lincoln managed to cover up his short comings but he, his wife and kids paid dearly...too freakin' late. Four innocent people were hung for conspiracy and two weeks later found innocent. Dr. Mudd doing his job spent 4 years in a Florida prison and it could have been life but he managed to save lives in that prison. Today lincoln would have been buried beneath the floors of some stinking prison...if he wasn't hung for his freakin' war crimes.

Wake up and don't say deregulatory things to or about your peers...please,

Travis

I think dave threw the first insult. I'm not big fan of Lincoln anymore than I'm a defender of any President of the United States. I'm also smart enough to know that everything I learned in history class wasn't fact. I'm also smart enough to know that information put out today by "southern historians" is slanted. So I guess the real truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Don't rely on me to talk to me older southern relatives. I gave up on most of my mom's family long ago. Spent too much time in Birmingham in early to mid 60's.

Applying today's law to Lincoln isn't possible. Attitudes were different, laws were different.

quote:

There’s NO REASON on EARTH that is grave enough to kill your fellow American.
travisab1

Then you would be absolutly opposed to the death penalty, correct?

I’d say that within the next couple of years those BIG Abey Babe statues are going to have some addendums and some BIG Steel Plates put over this hero bit so folks will no longer be confused about the truth and the fiction set forth by a biased government cover-up.

Abraham Lincoln is one of the greatest Americans in the history of this great nation. Certainly he made mistakes but only one who actually does something will make a mistake. Where your argument truely goes hard aground is the name calling. "Abey Babe?" That's not even whitty...
"As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy."
Abraham Lincoln

This message has been edited. Last edited by: scooter_mech,

quote:

Abraham Lincoln is one of the greatest Americans in the history of this great nation.

Scooter;
You took “There’s NO REASON on EARTH that is grave enough to kill your fellow American.” a bit out of context. We were talking about declaring a personal war for monetary gains like Lincoln did for example. Now that you’ve mentioned it…I’m fast going against the Death Penalty due to so many prisoners being set free because of DNA results proof of their innocence. Remember that three men and a woman were hung for conspiracy in the death of Lincoln. Some two weeks later found innocent. A little late wouldn’t you say?

As for the “Abey Babe”, we all have pet names for those in the latest news to Napoleon being called “Little General”.

“Abraham Lincoln is one of the greatest Americans in the history of this great nation.” That’s your opinion and you know what they say about opinions so I won’t repeat it here. Now, if he had gone to Vietnam and killed 630,000 North Vietnam…Dang, you could rest assure he’d be an All American Hero. He didn’t, he chose to kill his fellow Americans for some twisted reason that died with him after a ball of lead penetrated his skull…or just below it. His tormented mind died, I’d lay odds the he had a tormented soul to go with his tormented mind.

Try to get the slave issue out of your mind. That was just a by-product in his demented way of thinking. Remember he didn’t consider slaves on the same level as whites. He wanted to send them off to an island or back to Africa. Not to have them interfere with the American way of life. He took advantage of a situation…that’s all.

Travis

quote:

“Abraham Lincoln is one of the greatest Americans in the history of this great nation.” That’s your opinion and you know what they say about opinions so I won’t repeat it here.

Not just my opinion, sir.

Lincoln, Abraham (1809-1865), 16th president of the United States (1861-1865) and one of the great men of history. A humane, farsighted statesman in his lifetime, he became a legend and a folk hero after his death. [/COLOR
http://homepage.oanet.com/jaywhy/lincoln.htm
The History chanel's list of the 25 greatest Americans lists Lincoln second.
http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/greatestamerican/greatestamerican.html
If you read...
[COLOR:RED]Presidents by average scholar rank
You will see that the president that scholors list as greatest is Lincoln.
1 Abraham Lincoln 1861-1865 Republican 1.58
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_United_States_Presidents

I would say sir that your opinion of President Lincoln is just that; your opinion. I disagree with it and believe the vast majority of historians and scholors disagree with you as well.