"War and Peace

Lincoln’s entire presidency was engulfed by the Civil War. Some Southern states split away from the country before he even took office. The war began when Southern troops fired on Fort Sumter, just over a month after he was inaugurated, and he was assassinated five days after the South surrendered. It is ironic that he is so closely associated with war, when Lincoln, as presented in this play, is a man who supported peace at almost any cost. Throughout much of the play, Lincoln opposes slavery, but he does not oppose it strongly enough to support open hostility over it. In Scene 4, he speaks with disgust about seeing slaves shackled together, but when he is asked to participate in a rally against slavery he dismisses the opponents of slavery as “a pack of hell-roaring fanatics.” He equates opposition to slavery with violence, and so he cannot condone it. He feels that the abolitionists who are fighting to abolish slavery are agitators who should be put in jail for disturbing the peace. “I am opposed to slavery,” he tells his friends. “But I’m even more opposed to going to war.”

http://www.answers.com/topic/abe-lincoln-in-illinois-play-4

Another Why...

The public is invited to a University of Iowa History of Medicine talk on "Poisoning on the Prairie: Abraham Lincoln, Nancy Hanks Lincoln and Milk Sickness" at 5:30 p.m. Tuesday, Oct. 23, in Room 401 of the UI Hardin Library for the Health Sciences.

The speaker will be Edmund A. Franken, Jr., professor emeritus of diagnostic radiology at the UI Carver College of Medicine.

http://news-releases.uiowa.edu/2007/october/101507milk-sickness.html

When you kill your fellow brethern...You kill yourself,

Travis

Is that Oct 23, 2008 ??

Hello Custerman;

Welllll, it was. You missed it. I threw it in as an afterthought. Thinking all interested parties had at least seen or downloaded the contents there of.

Sorry to have been so late in the post. I wanted a debate.

Travis

2007 that is

It is what he deserved for starting a war. He said himself that you can't fool all of the people all of the time. Well, he may have fooled some, but he did destroy the Union and nearly eradicated the Constitution, and started a terrible war. He rightly got his murderering brains blown out for it.

Thanks Thrust;

I couldn't agree with you more. Tooo Freakin' bad that soooo many lincolnites think this asinine was one of the greatest presidents ever born...Hmmmm Since 1865 and Black folks freedom...the Black folks have finally realized that after more than one hundred years...they still are SLAVES to the government. The government gave them a race card in the middle 1960's thanks to Kennedy, (John Kennedy that is) Teddsey baby has never paid for the killing, (drowning of that 18 year old girl) at Massachusetts on Chappaquiddick back on the 25th of July 1969. Too freakin bad that the big guys stay in office no matter what the did.

My $.02

Travis

Those that voted for sucession were traitors who wanted to destroy the Union. Lincoln did the right thing by declaring war on them, but they all got off too easy and were allowed to live after the war, they all should have been hung, this includes, Jeff Davis, Lee, and anyone who fought for or supported the
Confederacy.

Dang George;

You see, you could have fooled me. I thought it was in the Constitution that any state had the right to secede from the Union. WOW, treason. Those Southern Bastards. I think Bush ought to have his men wipe the South off the face of the Earth. Them traitors, those rotten scum bags. Imagine the South breaking away from the Union because they didn’t want to pay those excessively high taxes the North never had to pay. Them Rebels, Ohhhhh just the thought of them raise the hair on my back. Somebody ought to go after the kin of every Rebel and kill the men and boy child and rape all their women and girl child an afterwards kill them too and burn everything within miles of the Rebel’s homes.

Thanks George. I didn’t know they committed treason. THANK GOD Lincoln stuck to the constitutional rights of his citizens. Maybe that’s why he didn’t kill them all at the time for them committing treason.

George…you pretty smart falla

quote:

I thought it was in the Constitution that any state had the right to secede from the Union.

The Constitution does not expressively recognize a "right" of secession.

Okaaay now...George Garcia, so on your map at home do you have one Virginia, ooorrr does your map show a separate place called West Virginia?

Are you going to order the 6 counties that seceded from the Commonwealth of Virginia (one of the original colonies)to return to the lawful government in Richmond?

{BTW-The snakes (friends of Abe) in the 6 northwestern counties of Virginia organized elections in which only people that were pro-Abe voted...just a bit lopsided, would you not agree?}

I repeat succession is treason anyone who supported should have been executed.

George;

I've tried to communicate with you. Impossible. NOW, I'm going to give you a Youtube website you can go to that love lincoln...buttttt, there's a lot of controversy on this site. Lots of luck fellow veteran butttt, I'm thinkin'...you gonna get those angel wings lincoln lovers have CLIPPED. Satan was an angel too...don't forget. Here’s the website. Go there and post your stuff. The creator of this site is too a lincoln lover. Who knows, you may become bosom buddies. Here 'tis Sarg...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=L_cLHWjSna8

Have a drink on me fella.

Travis

P.S. GET TREASON outta your freakin' head...OK???

quote:

"right" of secession

Ace Maker;

I beg to differ with you. Here's some food for thought and a website to go with it. This is a Quote from Thomas Jefferson...

Let's look at a few quotations. Thomas Jefferson in his First Inaugural Address said, "If there be any among us who would wish to dissolve this Union, or to change its republican form, let them stand undisturbed as monuments of the safety with which error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left to combat it." Fifteen years later, after the New England Federalists attempted to secede, Jefferson said, "If any state in the Union will declare that it prefers separation ... to a continuance in the union .... I have no hesitation in saying, 'Let us separate.'"

Here's the website and thank God we can finally get some real answers to questions unansered for over one hundred years...

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=1543

Hope this helps and stops this treasony thingy.

Travis

Well...

quote:

Originally posted by travisab1:
Well...

Well, what? Jefferson's opinion, nor the opinion of a pundit 200+ years after the fact, do not a Constitutional guarantee or "right" make. Article 1, Section 10 of the Constitution:

quote:

No state shall, without the consent of Congress, lay any duty of tonnage, keep troops, or ships of war in time of peace, enter into any agreement or compact with another state, or with a foreign power, or engage in war, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent danger as will not admit of delay.

Article 4, Section 3:

quote:

New states may be admitted by the Congress into this union; but no new states shall be formed or erected within the jurisdiction of any other state; nor any state be formed by the junction of two or more states, or parts of states, without the consent of the legislatures of the states concerned as well as of the Congress.

Hello Ace Maker;

Makes you wonder how West Virginia came about after reading those articals now don't it?

quote:

Originally posted by travisab1:
Hello Ace Maker;

Makes you wonder how West Virginia came about after reading those articals now don't it?

Hardly. It was voted on at the state level and approved by Congress. From the Library of Congress:

quote:

On June 20, 1863, West Virginia became the thirty-fifth state in the Union. The land that formed the new state formerly constituted part of Virginia. The two areas had diverged culturally from their first years of European settlement, as small farmers generally settled the western portion of the state, including the counties that later formed West Virginia, while the eastern portion was dominated by a powerful minority class of wealthy slaveholders. There were proposals for the trans-Allegheny west to separate from Virginia as early as 1769. When Virginia seceded from the Union in 1861, the residents of a number of contiguous western counties, where there were few slaves, decided to remain in the Union. Congress accepted these counties as the state of West Virginia on condition that its slaves be freed. "Montani semper liberi," "mountaineers always freemen," became the new state's motto.

Hello again Ace Maker;

Quote Ace Maker
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Hardly. It was voted on at the state level and approved by Congress. From the Library of Congress:
**********************************************

Quote Swremwin

*********************************************
Okaaay now...George Garcia, so on your map at home do you have one Virginia, ooorrr does your map show a separate place called West Virginia?

Are you going to order the 6 counties that seceded from the Commonwealth of Virginia (one of the original colonies)to return to the lawful government in Richmond?

{BTW-The snakes (friends of Abe) in the 6 northwestern counties of Virginia organized elections in which only people that were pro-Abe voted...just a bit lopsided, would you not agree?}
***********************************************

Quote Jpope From another string in the Civil War Era

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Also did Lincoln have a pending lawsuit against him from fellow lawyers claiming fraud and illegal campaign contributions? did he spend over a million dollars on legal fees so the attorneys can keep out of a court room?
Has or did Lincoln meet with other party senators in a conference on how to bypass constituitional amendments in order to consolidate their power further? How to get rid the troublesome search and seizure amendment or the right to keep and bear arms?
Or get a meanless assault weapon ban through that did NOTHING to abate crime? Yep great job those Democrats! Let's see Jimmy made us a laughing stock, Bill was too busy with women to give a commander the right equipment he needed and how many Americans died because of not having armor support when they needed it? Yep... my oh my what a good job those Democrats do! Let's get Hillary in the WH, then we can discuss fifty years from now the SECOND American Civil War.....that is if there is an America left?
***********************************************

After all these quotes doesn’t it sound a bit fishy, (as in Denmark) that a portion of a state could manage to break away from the Mother state???

Ace Maker…there were a lot of problems that stemmed from Lincolns actions waaaaay back when. He made some baaaaad decisions that caused the lives of soooo many Americans. West Virginia was a stupid mistake, (The South Was In The Process Of Freeing The Slaves And Needed No Help Doing So). This is one place that Brothers, Uncles, Cousins Dads and Sons were killed by kinfolk. This is not to mention the whole of the South being kinfolk killing kinfolk. Lincoln was just a bad seed and needed to be dealt with as such…not made a hero by anyone’s aspect.

Lincoln was jest a baaaaaad egg that almost got away with mass murder. Kinda like the stupid idiot that went into the mall and killed all those folks jest because he didn’t want to die alone. He was a MASS MURDERER Period…

Travis

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeRGarcia:
Those that voted for sucession were traitors who wanted to destroy the Union. Lincoln did the right thing by declaring war on them, but they all got off too easy and were allowed to live after the war, they all should have been hung, this includes, Jeff Davis, Lee, and anyone who fought for or supported the
Confederacy.

I agree with you that Lincoln was correct to go to war to restore the Union. The South made that decision much easier for him the moment they opened fire on Fort Sumter.
Where I disagree with you is your opinion the South got off too easy. Had Lincoln lived, I do not believe he would have imposed the harsh measures of Reconstruction and would have readmitted the states quickly. Reread the final paragraph of Lincolns second inaugural address of March 4, 1865 and see what you think. These are not the words of a man seeking vindication. When Booth killed Lincoln, he did more damage to the South than he could ever have imagined

With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan, to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations.

quote:

Originally posted by Thrust_0311:
It is what he deserved for starting a war. He said himself that you can't fool all of the people all of the time. Well, he may have fooled some, but he did destroy the Union and nearly eradicated the Constitution, and started a terrible war. He rightly got his murderering brains blown out for it.

Lincoln did not start the Civil War. It was when Confederates under Gen. Pierre Beauregard opened fire on federal land that the war started.

Lincoln most certanly did not destroy the Union. The South did. Look at the timeline...

Nov. 6, 1860 Lincoln elected president. He would not take office untill 4 months later. In the meantime...

On Dec.20, 1860 South Caralina seceded. Within 2 months, 6 other states would leave the union. And on....

Feb. 9, 1861 The Confederate states of America are formed under Jefferson Davis. This is nearly a month before...

March 4, 1861 when Lincoln is sworn in as the president.

Even before Lincoln tool office, seven states had already left the Union. They had formed a new government to make their break permanent.

And how is it that Lincoln was elected to begin with? He only received 40% of the popular vote. Southern Democrats split the vote of their party by failing to pick one candidate instead of three; Breckenridge, Douglas, and Bell. It's the "fault" of the South that Lincoln was elected!