Gents I have been the subject of intense abuse on the subject of the use of repeating arms in the Civil War. Those impertinent wags have insisted that repeating breechloaders, Henries and Spencers were not used and the documentation is fake. But let's expand this subject to include any breechloading long arms that were used. Mainly the single shot ones. So how about it guys......let's get some comments.

Well JPOPE, Lets start with the Spencer. I have a book that list's the serial numbers for Military weapons from 1795 to 1895. It states that that the U.S. government purchased 1000 Spencer's in 1862. these were purchased by the Navy in NOVEMBER 1862. The first Army troop to be Issued them was a Cavalry troop from Pennsylvania. Now just to prove that ALL that is written is to be questioned. I have an after action written by a Union officer about the BATTLE of LONE JACK, MO. in which he states that his forces were able to beat back a cavalry charge by Major David Shank's Battalion By giving them heated fire from OUR SPENCER'S. This Battle took place in August of 1862. This would have been before Christopher Spencer demonstrated the Rifle to President Lincoln. All of the aforementioned is subject to correction. During 1864 the following unit's were Issued the Spencer.

3rd. New Jersey Cavalry
2nd. Ohio Cavalry
3rd. U.S. Cavalry Division, Army of the Potomac.
At the Beginning of 1865 the Serial number was 63000. I find it hard that the U.S. ordinance Dept. would purchase 63000 Rifles & Carbines and not Issue them for use in an ongoing war.

I have a book. The U.S. cavalry, An Illustrated History That mentions a Wesson 1859 Cartridge rifle, Used by some Rebel troops. It is my understanding that All Sharp's were Cartridge weapons, Be they Paper or metal. There was a weapon Manufactured by the NEW HAVEN ARM'S CO. Referred to as a HENRY,of which the U.S. Government purchased some 8000 of between 1861 & 1864 That I'm almost sure was, although a weak one, a cartridge weapon. I have a SMITH 1861 Carbine that uses a metal cartridge. I however use a hard plastic one for reenactment's. U.S. Ordinance record's Indicate that 31,240 of these weapons were purchased between 1860 & 1864. So, If no repeating firearms were used in the Civil War, the Government wasted a lot of money buying them. The only weapon the I am familair with that was purchased and not used wholesale was the ROGERS & SPENCER REVOLVER.

Okay, I'll make the first comment on here. In 1855 The Colt company patented and produced the prototype of the Colt revolving Rifle. Full scale production was not started until 1857 after several problems were fixed in the original design.
In 1857 the United States Army purchased 101 Colt revolving rifles at a cost of 50 dollars each. Then they purchased another lot of 300,
plus the accouterments for 42.50 each. The purchase of these weapons made for the first repeating rifle adopted by the Armed forces of the United sStates. Some of the rifles and carbines came with sword bayonets and these were purchased in 1858 and 1859. These rifles were in the 56 military caliber. They were a five shot repeater. Although officers bought their own version of this rifle in the 36 caliber which was the civilian version of the weapon.
Just before the start of McClellan's peninsula campaign, Colonel Berdan's First US Sharpshooters were issued one thousand of these Colt rifles. They came to dispise them for they claimed that after the gun became hot, they experienced numerous chain fires. More than one chamber at time going off. Since the soldier had to put one hand forward of the cylinder on the forestock, the resulting chain fire meant the man could or would lose a finger or hand from the bullet or bullets that fired. Hence the Colt was not popular with the sharpshooters who traded theirs in for Sharp's rifles just before the Yorktown battle in 1862.
Its a shame that this rifle never lived up to its full potential. Although several Ohio regiments in the Armies of the Tennessee and Cumberland, continued to use them and use them in devestating manner. One of those units pinned down Confederate units while the Union troops performed their retrograde manevuer at Chickamauga. Using the Colt revolving rifle they fired off over thirty thousand rounds in just over half an hour.
Only 2725 of these weapons were purchased and the records show that no more were bought after 1863.
Having fired cap and ball weapons for thirty years, I can attest to the power and potential injury a chain fire can cause. I owned a reproduction 1864 Remington revolving carbine in 44 caliber. It had a special brass scrollwork piece below the receiver and stock for the shooter to put your other hand to steady and hold the weapon during firing. All the revolvers of the cap and ball era spit pieces of gunpowder, grease and paper out the front of the cylinder. Even the chamber being fired. It is a bit disconcerting to be hit in the face by this debris because it is hot and can burn you. The other problem is the report of the gun when it is fired. Its right in your face again, so the noise after numerous firing can cause temporary hearing loss. But I will say, once I got that sucker sighted in, she shot straight as an arrow!
I have had the priviliege of firing one of these original Colt revolving rifles. I rested the forward part on a sand bag rest on the bench. With the military load it did have quite a recoil for a black powder weapon and shot impressive groupings at one hundred and one hundred fifity yards.
Colt later on in the war did interest the Union government in a new revolving design. It was a six shot, 44 caliber weapon. At the moment I do not have any more on that weapon, but will check up on it. The West Point Museum have some pieces in their collection. These rifle/muskets used the spike type bayonet.
My information on the 1855 Colt revolving rifle comes from Mr. Francis Lord's book "The Civil War Collector's Encyclopedia, Volume I"

You got that out just abit ahead of me. Okay as far as the Spencer goes many people make the mistake of just saying Spencers. You have the Spencer rifle and the Spencer carbine. Most of the Spencer weapons issued to Union troops prior to March 1864 were Spencer RIFLES.
Many of the prominent historians of our time have stated that because Custer's troops were Armed with Spencer carbines, they held their own against Stuart at Hanover. Just NOT true!
Again Custer's men and the US cavalry units (Union) at the time of Gettysburg were armed with Spencer RIFLES. And their were not enough to go areound to all hands. Only two or three companies per regiment got the Spencers. John Buford had two companies that carried Spencers in his command while the bulk of his troops used the 1859 or 1863 Sharp's carbines. Custer's people had a mix of Sharp's, Burnsides and Smiths.
I have seen a copy of the original contract with the US government for the buying of Sharp's carbines signed right after Christmas 1863. The first consigment of those weapons were issued to troops in the Army of the Potomac in March and April 1864. Five regiments of Sheridan's cavalry received new Spencers before they went on the raid the beginning of May 1864, which ended in the demise of JEB Stuart at Yellow Tavern. I don't know the units off the top of my head, but have them in my research notes that I made for my book "Hardy's War, 1864, The Death of the Dream." It covers that time period including Stuart's death.Wow, after that other piece my fingers were stiff!The Spencer Carbine is being reproduced and I looked at one at Cabela's in Dundee,Michigan last year. Wow! What a beauty! the price I believe was 1345.00. Better save my dollars and quarters! I reserve the right to make further comments later. I need to rest these 58 year old hands CIAO!

Some times what you read is no to be depended on. In my book on military ARMS it states that the ordinance Dept. ordered 400 Colts revolving Rifles in 57, in 58, they ordered 50 RIFLES, In 59 they ordered 285 RIFLES & 64 Carbines. From 1860 through 1865 there were 4712 weapons ordered. Now, ordering and getting are two different things. It also depends on when the order was placed. As to the SPENCER, The book states that the navy Model was manufactured from 1862 to 1864. It was a Rifle with a 30" round Barrel. My source says there were 1000 made. The Army model was different. Now, I don't know how to type and my 65 year old fingers are getting cramped. I will do a little more research and come back with more word's of wit from the DIP s--t.

That is very true. I have seen that with the discrepancy of the number of Colt reveolvers issued and bought during the war. There three different sets of numbers on that.
Ah, my favorite, the Henry rifle. The granddaddy and forerunner of the classic Winchester. 13 shot, 44 rimfire cartridge, lever action rifle. I have owned a reproduction Henry since originals are bringing 54 to 65,000 dollars a rifle! The repros have jumped to over a thousand in most outlets.
Mine was 45 Long Colt caliber and I bought it used but in excellent condition. Wow! It worked smooth as silk and put those rounds out like a house a fire! Guess I was lucky that I didn't have any extractor or firing pin problems. But being a repro it had superior metal in the working parts than did the originals.
Its a shame that colonel Ripley couldn't get past his problems with breechloaders and repeaters to adopt the Henry as the standard Union rifle.

Colonal Ripley didn't want the union troops burning up all his powder and bullets on rapid fire. He supposedly told Lincoln, Repeating rifles are a waste of ammunition and money, Our men would be better off with the Isseued weapons now in service. I will always think that christopher Spencer played a big but unknowing role in the transition from muzzle loaders to the breach loading /cartridge weapons. Here is a repeating / cartridge carbine for you. The Tripplet & Scott. A seven shot .40 cal. Carbine. At the end of the C/W ,972 were inventoried by the ordinance Dept.

I've heard of it, but not realy seen any info on it. I'll get my friend Paul from Michigan on the blower this weekend and see what he has on it. He was the one that owned the 1855 Colt revolving rifle.
I spent last night with the needle and thread. I fixed the buttons on one pair of sky blue trousers, hemmed another pair of sky blues. Fixed the hem on the pair of my Navy blue ones and put two missing buttons on my Union officer's frock coat. Talk about some tired eyes and fingers!

Try Taylor's, they are importing and selling a line of repro firearms. Probably less expensive than Cabela's.

I'm sure you're familiar with Taylor's of Winchester, VA.

I most certainly am! Those ladies are really something. The guns they deal in, wow! I always enjoy their catalogs. I have a friend who once had a FFL and gun shop. He makes sure I get the Taylor's catalogs and flyers.
My wife can tell when I get a new one, I get a glassy eyed expression and slight saliva trail from the corner of my mouth and keep repeating Taylor's, -Taylor's -Colt -Spencer -Henry!
Its about the same when I have to fight that damn Dodge pickup every time we go by Cabela's in Dundee, Michigan! It wanted to make a left turn by itself!!! I guess it wants to see the fish in the aquaruim. You should see the catfish they have in that lake tank! Its NOT small!!

There is a Cabela's just across the state line in Kansas. I have only gotten one good deal out of them I don't go there much as the store is 51 miles from my house and I have two Bass pro Shops within 20 miles of me. I owned a Taylor's Henry, Shiloh sharps, Navy arms Whitworth, 1859 Infantry Rifle & Iron frame HENRY. I had a Sharps 1863 Rifle (original) with no Makers stamp anywhere. I still have the whitworth, Henry (I.F.)& Infantry Rifle. Also have an Old CVA coach gun (.12GA)muzzle loader 18" BBL's. I used it for my Quantrill Partisan Ranger's portrayal. OH, Darryl, Theres a little drool in the corner of your mouth. Mite want to wipe that off. I check for these things as I have been known to do it myself.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: OLDAO,

I'm at my daughter's house right now on my son-in-law's computer. I'm babysitting today. I put the wife to work sanding the drywall and getting more adhesive for the paneling.
My C/W aresenal right now has 4 reproduction 1851 Navy Colts. Three steel frame and brass frame. An 1860 Army Colt. Two 1858 style Remington revolvers, A Second Model Colt Dragoon revolver and an 1848 Baby dragoon pocket model Colt. Two Cook and Bros Carbines, CSA copy of the 1861 Enfield carbine, An old CVA Squirrel rifle, An original muzzleloading shotgun. I sold my Bress frame Henry and Remington revolving carbine five years ago. I also sold my repo 1863 Sharps carbine to a friend of mine who wanted to do Michigan Cavalry.
I have a Colt single action Army revolver, a Marlin lever action rifle, for post C/W play.
I'm going to pick up an 1853 Enfield rifle/musket or 1847 Mississippi rifle at Mansfield, Ohio in May. I'm going to do some CSA Infantry this summer and do some camps with my cousin who does Lincoln.
Yhe Second model Dragoon and the 1860 Army went on holsters on the front of my McClellan saddle. I carried the two Remingtons on my belt with extra loaded cylinders and slung the Carbine over my shoulder.
The Colt Navies (2) were carried by my wife and the other carbine is her's also. She was a soldier in our old unit. She wore her hair up in one of my old hats and had a beautiful handlebar mustache she got from a costume company. She's fairly tall, 5'9' so she made a good sized soldier.
She was a good one to. She earned her Corporal's stripes and was the right guide for the battle/skirmish line.

I always go to the Artillery and relic show every May in Mansfield, Ohio. They have CW re-enactor units there for the weekend and the CW relic show is spread out through five large buildings. Quite a few guys and gals use Mansfield as the spring Renactor's shopping trip. They usually have several of the larger sutlers there. Last year one of the gents from of the artillery units, Union, built an exact copy of a Supply wagon. Was it sharp!
I take a list with me of what to look for and buy. They also have a large selection of book dealers.
I like to make the Jackson, Michigan event in August. They have lots of sutlers and traders there as well as one of the bigger re-enactments in the Midwest. Its about two hours away from us. The wife and I stay with friends from the Jackson area and make a weekend of it.
I think the first real warm day I'll drag out the tents and gear and set them up. We love the smell of wood smoke and how the canvas absorbs it. Cabin fever and its still March!
Ah well the Reds have opening day in five days. Sure sign of spring!

The REDS!!!??? Go TRIBE!!!!!!!

Yeah......THE Reds!!!!!!! You're talking to a 52 year Reds fan. I went my to first game at Crosley Field back in 1956! Die Hard Reds fan!!!!! Dusty has already lowered the boom on some of them, like they needed last year. If you see Dunn standing there taking third strike calls, you may not see him after that! Same with Concepcion, he could make another trip to AAA.
Different team this year. Personally I think the best candidate for the Reds manager stopped at Wrigley Field last summer.

The Confederacy may have developed a steam powered machinegun. That's what the Myth Busters say...

quote:

Originally posted by scooter_mech:
The Confederacy may have developed a steam powered machinegun. That's what the Myth Busters say...

Tell us more.

According to the Myth Busters, the Confederates, facing a shortage of gunpowder designed a "machine gun" powered by steam. They put together a + shaped gun spun by a pneumatic motor fed steam in place of compressed air. Steel shot was fed into the top with precise timing and centrifical force would hurl the shot out. It did put a few dents in a hog carcuss but that's about it.

Yes, I watched part of that episode. It was interesting. Sometimes those guys really do some dumbs77t stuff and other times its pretty cool. I liked the exploding water heater rockets. Makes you think about that cylinder in your house that does heat your water..........

I have a picture of the color guard of the 77th Indiana and they were all armed with Henry repeating rifles. Many regiments bought repeating rifles for such units as well a skirmishers. A lot of men bought such weapons on their own.