I have been thinking about applying for crosstraining to become a SERE specialist. I was wondering, how long do candidates teach at Fairchild before they can PCS to other bases? I would like to see myself going to Nellis or DM after Fairchild. I haven't seen much talk about SERE assignments on the forums. Is PCS'ing a difficult process for SERE instructors? I also keep in mind that, as in all AF careers, assignments are based on "needs of the Air Force"
One other question... Has anyone ever heard of people retraining out of SERE career field? The reason I ask is I am interested in becoming a SERE instructor, but I also want to fly in a 1Alpha AFSC. I would like to be a Helicopter Flight engineer or an Aerial Gunner. However, My DOS is coming up soon and I'm running out of time to make a career change. Decisions, Decisions.
Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated, as I am dying to get out my current job.
Why are you asking this question in this forum? SERE isn't part of special operations. Most of SERE is in AETC. The general forum might be a better place to ask this.
Well, my bad.... I've just seen alot of threads on this particular forum regarding SERE.
I'll take it elsewhere.
SERE is not Special Operations, but neither is most of Pararescue, they fall under ACC, correct? So does that mean they should post in the General Section? TACP does not fall under Special Operations either, but they still post in here.
There are plenty of SERE posts in here and frankly, they are not under Special Operations, but the fit here. Unless your elitest attitude is that bad.
SERE can go to any base that has a Flying unit, and some that don't! So pretty much all of them!
Accurate, however a unified U.S. Special operations Command didn’t materialize until The Goldwater-Nichols Act of 1986 and establishment of USSOCOM on April 16, 1987. Lots of realignment as a result. This was the door opening for U.S. Rangers and an aviation unit as far as funding and suddenly terms like Tier One resource or asset. Missions suddenly got special operations tagged to them that previously lacked any tag other than security classification and if being conducted covertly or overtly. BTW: This same act is what opened door for Air Force to hold Combatant Commander duty positions that were previous exclusive domain of Army and Navy. And was the first step in causing acceptance of an idea it would be a good idea to merge TAC and SAC into ACC.
President John F. Kennedy was instrumental in pushing the services into specifically organizing, training, and equipping unconventional warfare capability.
U.S. Army Special Forces already organized, trained and equipped and doing unconventional warfare stepped in with little change other than they did get a distinctive uniform.
U.S Navy having the capability since WWII and perhaps earlier did some reorganization of assets and stood up SEAL TEAM One and TWO in January 1962.
The Air Force had U.S Pararescue since 1947, CCT since ca. 1952 or 1953, and a few small aircraft squadrons and an psyop/intel operations that it kept going after the Korean War, but an encompassing umbrella was lacking until the standup of the first STS having CCT and PJs ca. 1981/82 and merger of Air Rescue and Special Operations ca. 1982/83 and then establishment of AFSOC ca. 1989/90 and the concurrent pulling AF CSAR out of AFSCOC putting back into AFSOC, and then pulling it out.
However, back to special operations—what distinguishes a military operations as being special operations from being conventional? In answering this question SERE and TACP still fall on the not very involved whereas the PJs regardless of their alignment had involvement and to a lesser degree prior to 1980 CCT. When you can answer without any doubt what distinguishes any specific mission as special operations then you have a grasp why SERE and TACP , combat weather and SOW have inclusion in these forums. They bring a unique operational capability to the table that differs from typical mainstream Air Force and do sustain a level of fitness and personal readiness to do the job regardless of hardship that also differs from typical Air Force. I can even argue that certain Security Forces unit bring a uniqueness to the table but all are some what lesser in involvement in the being there doing special operations as STS does as a combat line unit and PJs and CCT do as a specialty. In regard to PJs on the ACC house, there is much blur that ACC fighter conventional mindset leadership is incapable at the moment to grasp, but then that’s why CROs are important.
SERE has a role which is why its inclusion in Guardian Angel—if you can understand that concept you have an understanding why SERE has a seat at the table. If you truly grasp the concepts you get an understanding of why Air Force Security Forces lack a seat. Doesn't make their unique units less capable, just not first choice or second choice team players as a speciality or any designated Security Forces unit in the special operations arena. Air Base Defense and Air Field defense is a conventional mission.
Thank you for clarifying Johca! Always one with the words and the history to back them up. I was simply using ACC as an example, but agree that they do fall under the confines of this forum, So does SERE, TACP, and the Raven Security Forces, but again, they have their own forum too. SERE is to much of a speciality to be thrown in with the General Pop.
The closest similarity SERE has to special operations is that they go to the same training squadron as CCT, PJ's, and TACP's. I do believe TACP's are a valid part of special operations. They are assinged to army units that are the heart of JSOC. My point being about SERE is they are a support function same as life support technicians. Should life support be a focus in the special operations forum too? In fact, life support probably does more to support the daily operation of Special Operations than any SERE person I have met in 12 years of being a part of AFSOC. Don't get your panties in a wad, and for god sakes I don't want JOHCA to have to start telling us the same war stories over.
Like many who question why SERE is in this forum, you obviously have little interaction with SERE Specialists, and thier missions. You think you know all that they do and perform. The reality is they are often assigned, train, and deploy with Special Operations units. This includes other services, not just AFSOC.
What JOHCA is saying, and you did not catch on to, is that to the layman (including 99% of the Air Force) SERE appears more related to Special Operations than AFSOC Flight Engineers, Loadmasters and other Aircrew. While it may not be the case, and I am not trying to offend you, it is the reality of what most believe.
Many SERE Specialists are Jump, HALO, and SCUBA qualified. Some are Ranger, Air Assault and Sniper qualified. This leads people to associate SERE with Special Operations. CROs and PJs, even when not assigned to AFSOC are Special Operations qualified, meaning they can and are often assigned to Special Operations units in the Air Force and in other services.
SERE are not "just support personnel" like life support, this only displays your lack of knowledge, and your bias as to why people are not asking as many questions about your AFSC in this forum, even though you wear a black AFSOC patch.
"Being part of AFSOC" while hugely impressive in your mind, is not that impressive considering the 80% of AFSOC is support, and get to wear that same black patch.
While you label yourself an "operator" most true "operators" in the other services would never consider you one. They do label PJ, CCT and a very few TACPs (again showing your lack of knowledge of thier careerfield) as operators. They would also, when asked, label you as "support personnel". I know this because I have trained with these operators, and this is what they have stated.
What you write here has the appearance that you are frustrated that people are not asking questions about what you do, but that 1/3rd of the posts in this forum concern SERE. I am sorry you feel this way. Perhaps if you promoted your AFSC more, and explained it so people would see why it is so difficult to get into, so hard to complete your tech school, so difficult to perform your mission on a daily basis, and is considered elite by so many in our service, and others. This way people would know what AFSOC Operators really do.
ROFL--the thanks I get.
You mean like these life support guys running this training consulting company? BTW-life supports job at a special ops unit is exactly the same they do at any fighter squadron, any bomber squadron, any helicopter squadron, and any C-17, C-5, C-130 squadron. Inspect and maintain flying survival equipment and protective equipment (helmets, oxygen masks, survival vests, survival kits, NVGs, LPUs, rafts, etc).
lol. ridge runner--many multi-phased exercise, Could have just been there to clean and inspect equipment, doubt they were there as SERE instructors and doubt they were there doing what U,S. Army Special Forces, U.S. Army Rangers, the occassional PJ, CCT, TACP does when there for training.
also appears to be life support
This message has been edited. Last edited by: johca,
|It is what it is.|
nothing like seeing people put in their place, it happens to the best of us
After all the hating is over, is someone going to answer the dude's question?
Virtual Boxing at Military.com...if I got $0.01 per match, I'd be retired by the end of the week (and today is the end of the week).
A current SERE member is going to have to answer the thread starting question. I don't know the answer. No certainty on any retraining question other than the more time in service=higher rank=higher skill level and thus available retraining quotas become more difficult to find, especially if in the AFSC you want to get.
I am currently retraining into SERE (just completed INDOC) and answered it up above....
Any base with a flying unit, and some that don't! SERE went under a big restructuring over the past 5 years and they are becoming more operational. I personally know one that went on some missions alongside some rangers and a CCT. And being that they are part of the GAWS, they reside closely with the PJs, even going on training, and maybe some operational.
As the rest of the Air Force can attest to, you currently need 4 years on station in order to pcs out. There are plenty of folks up here that get waivers at their 3 year mark bc there are a lot of open slots that no one else can fill.
Plenty of people spend their entire first 4-6 yr enlistment up here starting out for the first couple-3 years in the field flights, and moving over to SST, RT, Water, or Parachuting for another 3yrs.
PS I bet I can kick your *** caninedoorkickingdale!!!
I appreciate everybody's responses. It's kinda funny when people argue on these forums about a certain topic.
Thanks for the great info everyone. I do appreciate it once again.
|It is what it is.|
Guardian Angels Weapons System(GAWS)
SERE Specialist Training (SST)
So dude are you saying you're an operator, meaning a SERE officer? Why would a SERE person go to sniper, Ranger and AA? If you are not a shooter, why would you need the schools, I mean HALO and scuba why? Maybe you explain it to us common folk what it is you really do and why should SERE people go to all these schools. And why or why not you should be called an operator. Now don't get all twisted, I'm asking for a legit answer to some legit questions. Standing by for further.
Please re-read what was written.
While you label yourself an "operator" most true "operators" in the other services would never consider you one. They do label PJ, CCT and a very few TACPs (again showing your lack of knowledge of thier careerfield) as operators.
As for schools, I will be happy to explain. For HALO (freefall): SERE are the Air Forces test parachutists along with some P.J.s and CCT members. For Ranger: the skills taught are "field skills" in the combat arena. These skills are for leadership, team building, and yes combat. SERE goes through this course for the same reason that Security Forces, and thousands of Army personnel who are not assigned to the 75th go through. For field, leadership, and team building skills. For Sniper Training: shooting skills are not the only thing taught in sniper school. Evasion skills in the form of advanced camoflage, concealment and movement are taught. SCUBA: SERE teaches water survival with a dunk simulator. For safety reasons mostly, SERE attends this course. Air Assault deals with helo operations. If you have attended SERE School, you will know we do a lot of helo operations, both at the school, and in other places.
For all of the above and many other types of training SERE recieves, attends, and gives, there are a multiplicity of reasons for improving their skills. There are SERE personnel in "operator" positions in many organizations. For the most part SERE are instructors (I was just an instructor, and did not claim more than that). You have read into what was written. I also did not say "I" had attended any of these courses, because "I" didn't. I am sure you checked my profile, so you will see I am a Logistics Readiness Officer now. I am happy to answer your SERE or LRO questions anytime, as I was one for some years.
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