Ok ladies and gentlemen.
Does the Navy Academy ban their midshipmen from climbing Herndon Monument? Are there still plebes? What is "bracing"?
Hmmm well what is this young man doing here?
Do SEALs now skip Hell Week? Well, maybe if you took the time you would read this-
The sharpest tooth in this buzz saw is a legendary period known as “Hell Week.” With characteristic euphemism, the official U.S. Navy SEAL website calls it “the ultimate test of one’s physical and mental motivation.” In other words, it nearly kills you.
“Lots of guys get sent to the Naval Hospital after Hell Week,” says Steve, “and the ER docs always think that they’ve been in a car crash, they’re beat up so bad.” His own experience was typical. “Three hours into Hell Week I had no skin left on my elbows and knees, because we started doing low-crawls in the sand. Three hours. And that was Sunday afternoon. We weren’t allowed to stop moving until Wednesday. Wednesday was the first time we slept.”
When you become a Chief you gain thousands of brothers and sisters.
If any of the above has changed then you have your marching orders-get back to it-NOW!
[QUOTE]Originally posted by whoever:
A lot of Chiefs that wear anchors are offensive. Back stabbing, climbing oppertunists.
Initiations are for the arrogant, weak minded to lord it over you one more time. This farce of a ceremony should be cancelled until a new EVAL system is put in place to measure actual leadership ability and not political correctness or brown nosing ability.
As I've had explained to me from my old dear CPO, before I went up for Chief "I made Chief, non of you First Classes helped me and I'm not going to support or recommend any of you"
To this day this still typifies most E7's that I've known.
Shipmate, the only sentence that makes ANY sense at all is your last sentence and I am CONVINCED you are too blind to see what you are saying and why I agree with you!
Ok Sailor I will spell it out for you---
That behavior of the childish idiot who attained the PAYGRADE of E-7 that your murky memory has dredged up out of the muck typifies ALL E-7's, E-8's, and E-9's there are sadly striving to serve (themselves) in the Navy. One correction for YOU, you mentioned this WHAT as your blankity blank CPO, that WHAT is not a CPO, it is an E-7 - do you savvy that? Do you understand the difference? Do you also understand that some garbage will always slip by the marine strainer? Do you want to sit back and whine about it continuing the problem or make some effort at improving yourself and the Navy?
Everything else in the post is pure garbage and needs to be dumped clear of the fantail along with the rest and I suggest you get off your pine bench and start stepping up.
Have a fine Navy day
Initiation to me was just that; it was an initiation (went through in 1994). Did I learn a few things from it? Yea, maybe a few. To me it was more fun and games, than anything. I have since retired (as a Senior Chief) and moved away from a Navy base. At first I thought that I would miss it, but I found it extremely easy to leave that part of me behind, and begin a new phase in my life, I am just not that much of a sentimentalist I guess. Overall however my Navy career was great, and I wouldn't trade it for any other. I do miss some of the folks I served with, and I do keep in touch, but as far as the "mess" in general, I do not miss it at all.
As a retired Master Chief I can and will put forth a different view than those expressed here.
Upon attainment of Chief Petty Officer status, a displacement of ideas, thoughts and true feeling occurs. It helps the initiate, if already promoted CPO's help out in this process of accumulating knowledge, practical factors and performance factors.
One wonders! Why are these displacement(s) necessary?
Is it throwing out the old, bringing in the new?
Is it adding new ideas, unto the old ideas already there?
Some folks have tried holding on to their old ideas. Doesn't work, I can tell you that for sure.
Enduring a little pain, suffering and frustration at a critical point in ones life. (Getting the Hat)(Look at any boot chief, he/she has the look of a wet chicken)
Junior personnel and Junior officers compete with each other like boxers or survivalists that you see on TV.
Chief HAVE to work together, that's how it works!
There you have it.
Sunburn - First, congratulations on your achievements thus far. I'm sorry you consider yourself "lowly" as an E5. I can assure you that most of the time by most of the people, you wouldn't be considered lowly. I admire your concern regarding genuine leadership. As a Chief, I can't deny that you will come across "Good Ole Boy" clubs. I don't think this is caused as a result of initiation replacing genuine leadership training though. The simple truth is, by the time you make chief, hopefully you have done so, because you have already proven your leadership abilities. Unfortunately, this is not always the case. I suggest that the problem would be in the selection process rather than the initiation process. Being a good chief doesn't come from a book or a class. It comes from the chiefs that were our supervisors when we were coming through the ranks. You learn by example. We do have a (it used to be 2 week) indoctrination course that was pretty extensive and is taken every bit as seriously as initiation.
If there were E6's that traipsed out of initiation as broken men/women, I have to wonder about their true effectiveness. Initiation is a day at the beach compared to the burdens one sometimes bears in being a truly effective chief and leader in their day to day duties. I came away from initiation with a lot of lessons learned.
One of the greatest rewards was being able to take those lessons (and they aren't going to necessarily be obvious or labeled, you may not even know that you learned them at the time) and use them to develop, train and help my subordinates. There was no greater reward for me.
my absolute favorite initiation was at the 'body shop', norfolk, sept 79. it was a large group from all the ships wishing to participate and involved a covered dance floor with small fence, a baby pig.
my ribs hurt for a week from laughing so hard.
were any posters at that one???
haven't been to an initiation since the mid '90s. i put on the hat in april '71, the day before we pulled in from an 8 month cruise so we had the wetdown at PR and a DRY ceremony aboard
I have very strong belielfs about this issue. But being a Chief, before I would add to this discussion, I would have to be postive that it was taking place inside the mess. Why are all of you screming about the meaning of the initiation when you are standing on what amounts to the mess decks?
Initiation lost? Never...Unless, we as the wearers of the hat let it. 3 weeks of initiation this year, calling it Indoc now, we are turning our SLUGS into politicions. I was a late bloomer, 17 year mark when I donned the hat and I still live by the Creed as "The Retired CHIEF" I made an silent individual commitment to all SLUGS that I will continue to be a part of initiation. This year is no different, even as the season is in a severly weakened state. There is a lot to be learned and the only way we can teach the important things that need to be taught is for every freakin Chief to come out of the wood works and participate. Do or Die! I challenge all of you retired brothers to go to the nearest base and participate. I know we all have civilian jobs, but 1 day will make a difference. I did'nt get cheated on my glorious 6 weeks because the MESS was so strong and participation was at least 90%. Yes there were a dozen or so on base out of 118 that us "Dirty 13" would never see at our heartfilled functions. But, it didn't stop us SLUGS at the time to go and visit them at their Mess Quarters. We pressured these few non-participating Genuines. Sang to them, let them have fun with us and turned it right back at them and would embarrass the heck out of them in front of their brothers that did participate in our training events. Guess what, it worked on alot of them. Participation grew. We were networking and did'nt even know it! We were a very tight group of 13, even had a Selres with us. He participated as much as he could, but we understood he had a civilian job and took care of him when he was absent. In return he took care of us when we needed him the most. It was unbelivable! Our entire concern was that we were going to get cheated out of a very important part in our careers. We heard the stories, mostly from the meet and greet and us Dirty 13 took an oath that we would try and have as much fun with our initiation as our Chiefs before us. That is what was important, again we didn't know, but we were becoming a stronger unit as the weeks went on. We actually had one SLUG get up and quit our 2nd PT session at 0500. He was our senior SLUG, so he got road the hardest the first couple days. After PT was over that morning we went and gained his trust, of coarse he came back and we never let him down again. He remained our leader for the next 6 weeks. Yea, the Genuines screwed with us and tried to fire him, put myself our others in charge. We blew them off and payed, but guess what. It was so funny, they tried so hard to break our teamwork the first couple weeks, then they found out we were a different type of breed than the regualr ole SLUG, all of us had 16 plus years in when we were selected. We had already been trained by THEM! We were warned by Master Chief not to haze and not to play in un-natural flavors. So, we at our talent show put on a real show, no nakeness, would have gone way to far and piss the old man off, but we all dressed up like ships, even a pink sub...lol, brought in all kinds of fun things for the Genuines to bomb us with, shook our butts and flirted with the rules that were set by MCPON. Master Chief of the base got scared and departed quietly. We had won! YES, he was thinking of his carerr and Sigonella just had went though a scandle a week prior. But, guess what, after he had heard how tasteful it all ended up being, was suppose to last and hour, ended up being almost 4, he made sure he didn't miss the caddy auction. LOL... In return, we got trained! We even charged $10.00 a head for the talent show, when really we should have paid them for there knowledge. They came and paid and left with comments, stories and memories of their season. Heard so many stories that it made me quiver with love inside. I could'nt have asked for a better initiation. Why, because us 13 SLUGS had a right to receive our final training and there was not going to be anything or anyone that was going to cheat us out of it! Un-knowingly at the time, but I believe that was the single most thing that made us so strong. I imagine, we wanted to be The Genuine Chief and be accepted into The Mess and we were scared we would be looked at as weaklings. The year was 2000. Like I said, we came together in 2 weeks time. Just like I say now, WE, especially us retirees need to show a force that will WAKE THE MESS UP. It can't die, there will be none left to train the jr. officers or our blue shirts. I know it is in all of our hearts to participate. If the SLUGS put on a boring season, the Genuines will not show. I have started to see that in the past couple years and with only 3 weeks this year we just don't have enough time to train them with a minium showing. But, with max participation, we can at least not fail the tradition that has been arund for over a hundred years. Remember, we need them as much as they need us and the NAVY, our young sailors and officers will depend on them in the future. THE CHIEF never fails. I would'nt have ever said this if I wasn't retired and started to see with my own eyes what was happening to the Chief's season. I guess it's hanging out and working with quite a few ole retired Chiefs and being that my dad was the retired Master Chief, now in direct communcation with the all mighty. Probably turning in his grave because of the lack in participation...I was a complete hard-nosed jackass when I was active, guess thats why I retired with RED! LOL...We all get soft hearted in the end and every time I get a call or an e-mail from one of my prior sailors, even the ones that are now 1st classes to give me bad news of not getting promoted. It almost brings tears to my eyes. I continue to mentor till this day and belive that although the NAVY will change THE CHIEF shall never lose sight of the real goal. TRAIN OUR REPLACEMENT AND CONTINUE TO SERVE THE BLUE AND GOLD UNTIL WE DIE!!!!!!!!!
To you SLUGS out there, that means:
The Sailor and the Officer...
E-1 up to your CO...
Correction - it is not 3 weeks, it's 6 weeks and it is called Induction as per MCPON's FY-08 guidance message to all Fleet Messes.
It has been almost a decade since the real changes started - some Mess' took much longer than others (guilty on some points). I wrote a short list of contrasts between now and then CPO Initiation-Transition. Shipmates, it ultimately comes down to the Mess. The training that will occur will be less effective if we can't stop bringing up the "how we used to do it".
I was taught how to be humble and a good dose of brother hood, which is really what you need to be able to function in the mess and train, lead and inspire your suboardanates so that some day they will do the same for others, no matter what it is called as long as morals and ethics are eiforced along with team work it will continue to live on until we forget what the initation is supposed to be and what it is for.
Have you guys seen this yet? Makes me sick...
P 202100Z AUG 07 PSN 540788H32
FM USS CHANCELLORSVILLE
TO COMCARSTRKGRU SEVEN
INFO CNO WASHINGTON DC//N00E/N1//
CHINFO WASHINGTON DC//00//
CHNAVPERS WASHINGTON DC//PERS-00J//
COMNAVPERSCOM MILLINGTON TN//PERS-6/PERS-670// NAVY JAG WASHINGTON
DC//JJJ// NAVINSGEN WASHINGTON DC//JJJ// BT UNCLAS MSGID/UNIT
SITREP/CHV/005// REF/A/INST/OPNAVIST 3100.6H/FEB2006// AMPN/REF A IS
OPERATION REPORTING INSTRUCTION.// FLAGWORD/-/UNITSITREP//
TIMELOC/170430ZAUG2007/SAN DIEGO CA/INIT// GENTEXT/INCIDENT
IDENTIFICATION AND DETAILS/ 1. INCIDENT: HAZING 2. DATE OF INCIDENT:
17AUG2007 3. TIME OF INCIDENT: 1145L 4. LOCATION OF INCIDENT: USS
CHANCELLORSVILLE, SOCAL OPAREA 5. SUSPECT OR ALLEGED OFFENDER INFO:
CMDCM 6. GENDER: M 7. AGE: 45 8. RACE: WHITE 9. WEAPON: N/A 10.
ALCOHOL/DRUG: N/A 11. VICTIM OR COMPLAINTANT INFO: SH1 12. GENDER: M 13.
AGE: 37 14.
15. NCIS NOTIFIED (IF APPROPRIATE): N/A
16. FAMILIY ADVOCACY NOTIFIED (IF APPLICABLE): N/A 17. SUMMARY OF
17.A. ON 17 AUG 07 AT 1700L, DURING CPO INDOCTRINATION TRAINING, CMDCM
STRUCK A CPO SELECTEE IN THE BACK OF THE HEAD WITH AN OPEN HAND. CMDCM
REALIZED HIS ACTION WAS INAPPROPRIATE AND APOLOGIZED TO BOTH THE CPO
SELECTEE IN QUESTION, THE OTHER SELECTEES, AND THE ENTIRE CHIEFS MESS.
17. B. CPO SELECTEE REPORTED CONDUCT TO COMMAND. INDOC TRAINING
IMMEDIATELY PLACED IN ABEYANCE AND PRELIMINARY INVESTIGATION COMPLETED
WHICH FOUND THAT ALLEGED CONDUCT, WHILE ANOMALOUS, DID OCCUR. CO HAS
PERSONALLY CONDUCTED TRAINING WITH CHIEF PETTY OFFICERS AND SELECTEES,
REITERATING THE NAVY'S--AND THIS COMMAND'S--ZERO-TOLERANCE POLICY FOR
HAZING IN ANY FORM.
17.C. CPO INDOCTRINATION TRAINING HAS RECOMMENCED. CMDCM WILL NOT
PARTICIPATE, PENDING EXPEDITIOUS ADJUDICATION OF THE CHARGES.
18. MEDIA INTEREST: NONE ANTICIPATED
19. NCIS INVOLVEMENT: NONE
20. POC: LCDR WOFFORD, XO, 6195564418, XO(AT)CG62.NAVY.MIL// BT
I hope I never run into that guy.
It took a long time for me to understand why
I had to go through this initiation and when I
it dawned on me I was appreciative. It's not
politically correct as they say but if it weren't for this initiation and my military training I don't know where I'd be right now.
All I can say is that is makes ya tough. It made me a better man, although not a richer one,
that has helped me through much adversity.
Great initiation. It made me a better man.
Yep, KingsMate. He will be the best E-7 of all. Thanks for the correction Tokeda. I heard quite a few rumors that the board was holding the results again due to a leak. Unfortuantly here on the Gulf Coast, the Mess was led to wrong info. We started calling it INDOC, due to the shortened period we all heard about. My shirt still says TESTED, SELECTED, INITIATED. So NO, I will not call it the Transistion Season though. But, as I have always been, I am still involved, 13 SLUGS here, funny how that is we were 13 also. To bad that CO in the message hands were tied, then again was the ship's Mess strong enough? Who knows the inside scoop... Sounds to me as if the SLUG couldn't take a little humiliation...The CMDCM sure did. By the way Grantsdad. Line 17 in the message reads CPO INDOCTRANATION TRAINING. Hmmm, maybe another change, go with the flow right...lol, Hell, lets all go out and get our swords or at least get college edumacated. Makes us better leaders!
You are correct it shouldn't be called Transition, it's the FY-07 Induction season as ordered by MCPON. Course correction made.
There is nothing about Indoc in MCPON's FY-07 Guidance message to all Messes, however there is a scheduled Indoc period during the season which the OPREP refers to.
I can't imagine what took place so there's no need to speculate unless you have all the facts.
Roll with the changes Brothers and Sisters
I hear the faint sound of Springsteen's "Glory Days"
I am a retired Chief Petty Officer, and initiated and damn proud of it.
The day I got initiated and the weeks preceeding it were one the high point of my 20 year career.
Chief Initiation is a tradition in the Navy and is what sets us apart from the rest of the military services.
Fine if the new leadership wants to establish a "CPO Acadamy to teach them how to be a Chief ok, but dont cancel the initiation.
I am getting so tired of the "Political Correct" bs that the world has been driven to by an few disgruntled and unhappy people.
Long Live Chiefs Initiation.
Eliminate the initiation, BA/BS for Chief, MS for Senior and, PHD for Master Chief. Yeah, that's it. Than we can call ourselves E-7's like the Army and Air Force.
I was initiated in 1968 and, yes it was a little rough so, maybe tone it down a little. ie: No more flaming toilet paper (you know where), etc.
If you really want to start a battle, try to eliminate the Greased monument that they use at Annopolis for the hat ceromony and, all the other stuff we don't know about.
Hal, ISC Ret
Initiation, induction, transition, the name is not important - what we make of the process of preparing selectees to be Chiefs is. Like most of us, I am no fan of the politically correct spinelessness that has eviscerated society over the past 25 years. However, I do realize that we constantly have to review how we conduct initiation to make sure it is still relevant lest one day someone gets the bright idea to make being advanced to Chief just another day in the life of a Sailor.
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