How can they start initiation in June if the results of the board just came out??
Something doesn't sound right...
And I thought it was just me.
Ma'am if your reading this, understand that we (past and present sailors) all have worked 7 days a week at one point in time for several months. Also bitc*ing and moaning is part of our nature, so relax and let the pros handle what they have all been through. I have served under my fair share of Chiefs, and for the most part I can say that they are fine, upstanding individuals that make this fine Navy run. So pray with your daughter to handle her current situation, and reasure her with encouraging words. She'll make it through most likely (hehehe) and will be better from the experience.
I highly doubt in this era of PC that she's being degraded terribly.
Exactly what are they doing that you don't think is correct?
cmmoore68's daughter is probably a reservist. The results for the reserve E-7 board came out in the first part of June.
To someone looking at what is going on from the outside, as some of my co-workers did when one of their mobilized reservists was selected for Chief and trained by the active component, some of what goes on does look like it is pointless and inane. However, this is one of those things where you have to go through the process all the way to appreciate it.
No one is forcing her daughter to undergo the professional education and initiation, rites of passage, or whatever her CPO Mess calls it. That is strictly optional on the part of the selectee. All she has to do after she is selected is attend the PCPO Leadership Course (AKA CPO Indoc) and do some on-line courses on Navy Knowledge Online. She does them and she becomes an E-7 on her date of rate.
Doing the optional professional training and going through the initiation will help strengthen her and establish a bond with her prospective brothers and sisters that will assist her in doing things for the Navy and her Sailors.
Ahhh, that makes sense! Thanks for clearing that up for me.
cmmoore68's daughter should also be learning how to do the right thing. Initiation is not doing what you are told, it's planning, thinking & doing what is right in a teamwork enviornment.
I am the wife of a SLUG, we have been married to each other and the Navy for 14 years. I am not hear to tell you how bad initiation has been for him, but I won't deny that it has been rough at times. His group started in June, as he is an active TAR. He understands and embraces everything that is being given to him by the mess and has yet to say anything negative about it. In fact, I would say that he is actually having fun (most of the time). He acknowledges its flaws, and looks forward to being part of the process and its improvments in the future.
Now, all that being said...I have my problems with the process.
I am VERY disapointed with the support given (or not given) to the spouses. We were invited to the family cookout, where the MCPO proceded to feed me a line of crap. We were advised of the voluntary nature of the process, told that this was in no way intended to cause stress in our homes....blah blah blah. My husband had beggeg me to be on good behavior while at the cook out, and I did until this point. After a short conversation with the MCPO, my husband hurridly ushered me out to the car. Apparently nervous about what wrath would become him for what I had said...
Since then, I have done everything a good Navy wife should. I have moved my family 700 miles ALONE because he had training, been snapped at over the phone because he was tired and stressed. I won't go on, those of you Genuine Chiefs know what I'm talking about.
But aside from that one family picnic, NO ONE has contacted me with any offer of assistance or even called to just talk and make sure everything was ok with our family. This is inexcusable. If the CPO's are truley the back bone of the Navy, then what are the wives and husbands of those CPO's. I feel sorry for those newlywed, young, or less independent spouses who have no idea how to cope with this. I am a strong independent women, with 14 years of Navy life experience and even I have found this experience to be very challenging. Not only will the initiation have made my husband a better leader, but it will have by default made me a better women and wife.
Voluntary for HIM, not for me, but with only 20 days left I WILL SURVIVE. No,the Navy did not give him a wife in his seabag, but by God I washed everything in it, and sewed on everyone of those patches.
If you are a CPO/SCPO/MCPO I would challange you to take time out of your day this work week and personally call everyone of your selectee spouses. Do not take any of those conversations back to the mess or training, but give those spouses some support and ensure them that it is in confidence.
I would also challange any selectee spouses to reach out to the other spouses not just now, but every summer when this time of the year rolls around.
CPO initiation is not dead, it has only changed with the times. It's outward appearence has changed, but at its heart it still holds true to the idea of what it was ment to be. Fear not Retired Chiefs, they are still learning something.....
Genuine Navy Wife...
genuine navy wife said it well-it's not that my daughter has complained that much-she hasn't had the time or has been too tired to sit on the phone. some stories i hear from her 14 yr. old daughter who is spending a lot of time home alone. my daughter is in the active reserves 15 years (that is why they started early) and as i said earlier the navy has been pretty good to and for her. i know she will make it through this initiation that she chose to do and in fact it does seem to be getting a little easier (except the long hours)it is just a very stressful time not only for the selectee but also for their families. and only one or two of the chiefs have gotten carried away, most have been decent about it all. and hey i'm being a mom cut me some slack sirhamalot navy mom
Did you do that for him or because the Navy required it from you?
Perspective is everything.
i cant seem to find rowdie's comments on the list. i can really feel for her. seems that she hasnt been told how special she is to be not just a cpo's wife but a navy wife. the process here can be bad, as in just a payback for what the other cpo's went through. i wonder if they were presented the words of what a cpo is and how important it is to be a chief but a rare person that can be a leader in his department who can somehow bring the officers and enlisted together but lead in a way to bring honor to the cpo community. i was a bmc and as i was retiring i saw the changes happening already. chiefs were no longer there, the cpo's were there who's only worry was to advance and make themselvess look good. there was no longer the man that could lead and know his rate but the navy created the cpo who only worryed about himself. i am glad i retired i would have been ashamed at what was taking over the navy. the initiation should go back to what it was with the end showing the cpo what he really was and what his job was. then there will be a real understanding to the initiation.
I don't think your comments are indicative of all present day chiefs and are quite offensive to those who wear the anchors.
Always amazes me how retirees can make comments such as yours without being in the bowels of the ships to see if their assertations hold true or not.
wow, i got chewed out good by some of the navy's cpo's. i dont want to call them chiefs because all i did hear is, "its people like you that didnt teach us. and we dont mind the games that are played to make cpo and a lot of me me me and me." not once in all that i read did i see we are going to be good teachers to our people and continue to teach both senior and junior people on each side of you. the pride we had and the respect we had from our troops was not demanded nor did we seem to our troops that we were crawling up their backs to advance ourselves.
the respect we had from the majority of our people both junior and senior was because we knew what we were doing and not only took care of our people while demanding the best out of them. the teaching was not just yelling and screeaming it was teaching and living by the rules and teaching the rules. the officars we had respected us because we knew how to make them look good so we could demand if necessary something for our people. what was funny the senior officers knew this was going on and enjoyed it because we were teaching his junior officers which made him look good. so you see we were in the middle and when we did our job right we earned respect from both junior and senior. with that we earned the special things that good chief's had.
so again i say i and many like me arent your problem you cpo's. you are your problem and blaming us is like kicking a dead horse. it wont work and you will gain nothing.
read what is presented to you after the things you go through and it will explain the why's in the things you were put through. the morning i was through it all, my defense gave me the, lets call it the creed, writting and by that time i was very angry and hated all chief's. after i read it i felt good and i dont mind saying it. i felt special and knew i would never let it go to my head and i would teach and take care of all that i had dealings with and i would share with the other chief's in the safety of our ship and be part of a team that would do the navy proud.
maybe its to late to do that any more. i have seen and heard the changes especially the cpo's, a bunch of people that were only worried about themselves and what they could get out of the navy. i am glad i retired and i have my memoires of the navy i was proud to serve in.i hope this all make sense to you young ones and maybe you can bring back the navy thats not dead, but just asleep for now. you will bring it back and take credit for it and be proud to serve and be proud of what you did to make it happen. that is what makes a cpo a chief. not much of a leep, just good sense and effort by you.
I was initiated in 1986. "Old", conservative initiation. Prior to that I attended MilLead, PO leadership, "A" and "C" school, basic training, Navy instructor, and many other "training and leadership" offerings. None taught me more about the Navy and leadership that initiation. 'Nuff said.
again i read that somehow this activity done by the chief's to the cpo's was somehow supposed to make you a leader. never said that. hopefully that was already done when you were a very good e-6. to me the process was to make you feel that you were not a God, but a person that could live between the e-6 and below and the ensign and above. and teach the young ones and work with the rest of the good chiefs to make each department and divison the best that could be had. the goat locker which someone called it was a place different chiefs could plan together to get things done between divisions. yes there was the never ending paper work but talking to your peers in the chiefs mess had a way of getting things done and make for a smoother running ship.
so to all you e-6's and below who never made chief and enjoy demeaning chiefs and those who somehow think that a school will teach a person more than being a leader, then they miss what the whole thing is about. schools are very good but they are not in the cpo's mess.
so i guess i have said enough to many young people on here with all the answers to the trials and tribulations of leadership and quality of people that wear different uniforms and have pride in being a chief. to you i say stop name calling and blasting who and what a chief is but join them and help make the navy something you can be proud of. i had my pride for many years in the navy and was proud of what i accomplished in the navy and was proud of what i left at each command. i did things that most people will never do in 21 years. from a sloppy painter in first divison to working my way to running tug boats in mayport fla and up and down the saint johns river. my crew was very tight and i enjoyed teaching them and i dont see any other service letting a e6 or e7 and above running a tug boat without someone more senior,i was a harbor pilot in three ports for four years and my last job was being the leading chief on a sub tender and overseeing the e6's in all three divisons and two shops. my navy experience was very good and i never stopped learning and instead of *****ing about why the other guy had the power to lead i learned how to lead and then taught others to. that is how you make chief, i hope the ideas and the things you go through once you have made chief will never stop. and to make it all worth while reading the creed with help you understand what it was all about.
I would try harder to get your point but trying to decipher your poor writing skills makes my head hurt.
Something along the lines of how wonderful you are and how crappy today's chiefs are.
I just keep hearing Springsteen sing "Glory Days".
"Yeah, just sitting back trying to recapture
a little of the glory of, well time slips away
and leaves you with nothing mister but
boring stories of glory days"
well i do rest my case achseh, and admit to your skills and all knowing history of the navy. i really dont care if you get my point or not. i among many are very proud of our service in the navy and feel that we have left something to be proud of. maybe you have not found yours yet. you do sound like a know at all and just maybe the navy isnt ready for you.there has to be quite a few very good chiefs in the navy then now and forever. the people that only complain and call names and feel that they must beat someone else down because they cant make it have to be helped through each day.
again the good outstanding chiefs of my navy and todays navy know who they are and only the ones that have a problem being good leaders or others who seem to know it all as you seem to know who i am talking about.at age 60 i am still not done learning, so catch up with me ok lol.
i am so sorry you are having such a hard time understanding what i write. perhaps you need to spend less time trying to check on my skills and more time in really reading what i have to say. i am proud of the navy and i am proud of myself as others are doing the time in the navy and adding to the new navy you have today.
there are many bad and good and there are many that just cant fit in the navy or any other service. you sound like the type that knows to much to be much of a success in the navy. so why dont you get out and find something that will show your many skills as a teacher and know at all who knows history and shows his *** in doing so.
so enough of this i have better things to do. i loved the navy and i know there are many others that do also. i will remember it to my last days the good and the bad and be proud to have served with many good people that helped me make it and accomplish good things.
So why can't you just say you are proud of the job you did without saying that today's chiefs only care about themselves? I have not found that assertation to be true.
BTW, I'm not in the Navy, just married to a recently retired Master Chief who busted his *ss for his people, loved his Navy and has the respect of, and respected, all he served with. His accomplishments are his, but they are many and I'm very proud of him.
Since that's true, I have a difficult time standing by quietly while someone belittle's todays sailors because:
"i was a bmc and as i was retiring i saw the changes happening already. chiefs were no longer there, the cpo's were there who's only worry was to advance and make themselvess look good. there was no longer the man that could lead and know his rate but the navy created the cpo who only worryed about himself. i am glad i retired i would have been ashamed at what was taking over the navy. "
Make up your mind, either "the good chief" went out with you years ago, or "the good chief" is alive and well today. You can't have it both ways, but you should be careful when you make blanket generalizations.
Well, let me just start off by saying that I am an active duty Chief who has been through initiation. Even though it was difficult and draining at times, I absolutely loved it. I will save most of the learned lessons that I learned as I do not which to divulge too much to those aspiring to join me in my mess but I would like to point out a few things that have hit a nerve.
First of all, I DO NOT SUPPORT THIS CPO ACADAMY AT ALL!!! I like the idea of a standardized curriculm for the commands to use but do not agree with sending my Chief Selectees off to another command to be taught a bunch of information (albiet good info) and come back already pinned. Just because they just learned a bunch of new info does not make them experts. They will need help, just like we all do, and they will not know who to turn to because they haven't spent time with us. Also, I wanted to point out that a large part of what I learned through my initiation was who I was. I didn't know that I was capable of standing up to someone, especially when they are yelling and cussing in my face, until I went through. This will happen during your career as a Chief, especially if you are doing your job and standing up for your sailors, regardless if they were right or wrong. What better way to find out what you have and to tailor it and get feed back while you are in a 'safe' environment. I will acknowledge that there are some mess' our there that do not do a good job at this but I was initiated at Ft. Meade where they only do the best.
As for the above issue of no one contacting family members, this is CRAP! The sponsors should be calling spouses and possibly making house calls on a regular basis. The mess should be taking care or the families so the selectees can concentrate on what they need to do (just as if you were on a deployment). Unfortunately in todays fast paced world, we seem to be running to stay in place. If we want to truely be leaders, we need to stop running and starting talking. How can we lead if we don't know who the people under us are or what they want? And why would they want to follow our lead if they don't know who we are or what we want?
Again, I just want to re-iterate that I beleive that initiation, (transition, Rights of Passage, etc..) is a great way to teach a bunch of things at once but it takes the whole mess to make it successfull. If you are a Chief and you don't believe in the process, too bad. You are stuck with it. Instead of whining about it, why don't you do something to make it more enjoyable for those going through! There has to be something you can bring to the table. I wish that I could get more chiefs involved, Chiefs with passion and heart! Above all, Leadership starts from the top. If you CMC isn't involved, it spreads like fire! Get you CMC to back it up. A big part of Leadership is establishing and maintaining relationships!
I made Chief in '85 and I saw the writing on the wall by the time I retired in 2000.
The group before us still carried their charge books either by a chain or a belt of 7.62mm dummy rounds. They still ate goldfish.
As soon as the results came out, they had us in the mess every day for lunch and the initiation started the night before and we played all night.
Then it cut back so that they brought the selectees in once per month until the last 3 weeks before the initiation.
Then near '90 or so, you would see them doing community projects before the initiation. No eating poo-poos or fish. And they let them get a few hours of sleep before the ceremony started.
The amount of messing with one during the initiation process prepared one to deal with abusive officers (and I had an XO on one ship and an ordnance officer on my last one). The ironic thing is we had one selectee way back in the late 80s that got offended and we had to pull him aside.
The other thing about the initiation process is as a "slug" you have to be just as ornery as the Chiefs that are messing with you. It came in handy when putting a couple senior officers in their places. The Chiefs actually LIKE someone that is a bit cocky.
FCC (SW) USN RET
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