Redbeast - I was a HUMINT guy, but it was about 11 years ago. If I were you I would contact the 3rd CI/HUMINT Company on Okinawa (used to be at Camp Hansen, not sure if it is still located there) and talk to one of their guys. He will be able to give you more current information.

As far as the Secret - TS. They won't start processing a TS clearance on you until they have a reason to - in other words you have been accepted to latmove into a field that requires it (or you are being temporarily assigned a billet that requires it).

Bottom line on having foreign relatives is this - there are a lot of people that will tell you it is impossible to get a clearance with them, and there are a lot of people that will tell you it is not a problem. The truth of the matter is it all depends, I've seen it go both ways. Talk to the HUMINT guys and see what they say.

Ken

quote:

Originally posted by kengardner:
Redbeast - I was a HUMINT guy, but it was about 11 years ago. If I were you I would contact the 3rd CI/HUMINT Company on Okinawa (used to be at Camp Hansen, not sure if it is still located there) and talk to one of their guys. He will be able to give you more current information.

As far as the Secret - TS. They won't start processing a TS clearance on you until they have a reason to - in other words you have been accepted to latmove into a field that requires it (or you are being temporarily assigned a billet that requires it).

Bottom line on having foreign relatives is this - there are a lot of people that will tell you it is impossible to get a clearance with them, and there are a lot of people that will tell you it is not a problem. The truth of the matter is it all depends, I've seen it go both ways. Talk to the HUMINT guys and see what they say.

Ken

You said they won't start processing a TS clearance on you until they have a reason to, but what about just secret clearance, will they do it without a reason?

quote:

You said they won't start processing a TS clearance on you until they have a reason to, but what about just secret clearance, will they do it without a reason?

Processing a SECRET clearance isn't much more than conducting a records check, so it doesn't cost a whole lot of money. I still doubt they would do it unless it was required. If your career planner told you they would maybe he knows something I don't (which is entirely possible). Either way if you are trying to get into the SIGINT or HUMINT field you will need a TS/SCI.

Has anyone here been a linguist? I would like to maybe have a little idea as to what they do on a daily basis and what the training at Monterey is like. How much desk work is it? Is there a way that as a linguist I can get attached to a combat unit, or go infantry, but also learn a language. Lastly, do you pick the language you learn?

I speak french fluently and passed the top DLAB level (level 1?) so the option is open for me, but so far, I have turned it down.

I'd been studying Arabic for two years both at my University and abroad before I enlisted in the Reserves. I'd just finished my second overseas summer program when I took the DPLAT for Arabic at MEPS before ever shipping. They told me it was possible to do that and get credit for it seeing how at Boot Camp I knew I'd loose some language and wanted to get as good a score as possible.

Long story short if it was ever possible, MEPS "misplaced my test results" then after my year of training (for MOS) and being released to reserve status I put in a request to study abroad to freshen up my Arabic (before an imminent deployment, on my own dime) I was met with lots of resistance from the brass (even though it's questionable to what extent they could not allow me to go.) With the persistence of my TL/PltSgt and his influence with the CO. I was finally given the Green light. And later told I'd be reimbursed (I'm absolutely sure this was the Maj eating crow after saying 'no way' to my TL and being told it's G2G by the CO.)

Arabic is one of those things where you can learn to speak and everything anywhere but there are so many shades of Grey as in different commonly used words that you might not know the one used on the test but know another that most people would understand. That lead me to feel like taking the test again or even applying for more money when I get back because of my studies, is hardly worth it. I'll wait to see how it's utilized in the field seeing how I'd like to be an interpreter not a translator.

Not only that but you have to retest for it every year so even if they did find my results they'd have expired which basically means to me. Unless if you live in the ME/NorAfrica you can get a good score once but there is almost no way for you to repeat those results if you've been living stateside working etc.

These are my experiences.

Over all I'm a little disappointed, I see language ability as one of the most important elements of a forward deployed fighting force. I feel as though I'm in the minority at least within the USMC.

quote:

Originally posted by HouseOfPain3006:
Has anyone here been a linguist?

There are some of us on here

quote:

Originally posted by HouseOfPain3006:
I would like to maybe have a little idea as to what they do on a daily basis and what the training at Monterey is like, do you pick the language you learn?

Monterey is awesome (but that can be detrimental to STUDY so beware). You don't get to pick. Needs of the Corps, what classes have openings when you arrive are the main factors in determining your language.

quote:

Originally posted by HouseOfPain3006:
How much desk work is it? Is there a way that as a linguist I can get attached to a combat unit, or go infantry, but also learn a language.

Radio Battalion is definetly not desk work and you will deploy into combat areas. MCSB work might be considered "desk work" but you may be sitting a "Live Pos" meaning you are still on the front-lines of intelligence gathering capability of the US Military. As to the latter part of being in infantry and a linguist, read all of this topic thread as that is what the 27xx is all about.

numbers - I don't believe that this MOS is open to reservists, I've never seen a Marine reservist in Monterey, though it is definitely open to Army reservists, and possibly other branches.

As for HUMINT/CI, they certainly have a need for linguists, but you need to keep in mind that you have to be an NCO to apply for CI, so you would need to join, operate in another MOS for awhile, and then lat move. Possible, but by no means certain.

As for persons born outside the US that grew up there and their family is from there, I would certainly say that their chances of recieving a TS/SCI clearance is scarce at best. If you have a hard time getting the go-ahead to just join the service, chances are that your hopes of a clearance are nil.

That being said, you can still DLPT, and recieve extra pay for maintaining proficiency in your foreign language(s).

HouseofPain - for more info on day to day, message me, and I will post relevant info.

Gurgis - none of this is particularly surprising to me, paperwork gets messed up/lost all the time. It's part of the nature of bureaucracy. You have to stay on them about this stuff. As far as language being important, it's fairly accurate, but highly dependant on MOS. I.E. aircrew don't have much use for it. Also, you're right that arabic speakers in the military are quite scarce. Let your command know that you have these skills, insist on taking the DLPT again, and see if you can get sent to some language schools.

For more information on a 26xx/27xx career in the Marine corps, reference my other thread at:

http://forums.military.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9071945704/m/1560052690001

any further questions can be directed to me via personal messaging .

Dtronix,
The paperwork issue didn't make me too upset (although the back pay would have been great.) I knew the whole time it was suspicious, and I was in absolutely no position to ask my command about it until I obtained my MOS.

I'll be heading back from the Arabian Peninsula in two days, so I'll try to take the DPLAT again just to see what happens.

I've been told DLI could be fought for (by my command,) however like you mentioned before I'd be surprised if it was available for reservists. But having studied 3 separate times in Arabic speaking countries (occasionally having 'alleged' DLI grads in the programs,) I feel like while DLI/Monterey is/are probably the best language school/s in the country, living and studying in the ME is more attractive. It is much cheaper from every angle, you get to meet people and see culture (as important as speaking the language in my eyes,) and you're in a completely Arabic speaking environment (not completely true since most of the ME is full of English speakers, but not as many as California.)

I don't know what the Linguist community feels about that last part (learning by immersion.) Truth be told, I guess my goals with language are beyond the scope of satisfying the military alone.

This really all leads to my frustration with the job the Gov't does trying to educate it's employees. Limiting countries for study, also if you intern for some dept or take a language scholarship you're limited to where you are allowed to study. I guess there's a lot to it.

Anyway I plan to heed your advice and will start to notify my TL of my intentions to take the DPLAT at some point during our work up (starts in a week.)

I assume by DPLAT you mean DLPT (Defense Language Proficiency Test). If so, be very careful which version you take, since there is an MSA (what you might have called fus'hawi - aka Al-Jazeera) arabic test, and then there are various tests for dialects (Iraq, Gulf, Levantine, etc.) and that may be what you're more accustomed to.

The MSA test is listening and reading, whereas the dialect tests are only listening.

Also, there is what's called an OPI (Oral Proficiency Interview) to determine how well you actually speak the language, which is usually done in person, but may also be done over the phone. I'm not sure if they would insist on you having an OPI or not, but be advised.

As for what the best way to learn is, that's open to interpretation, but there is a possibility that you could go to DLI if you really wanted to, and were willing to make certain sacrifices. I'm certain that it would help your arabic in ways that perhaps you can't grasp now.

Hi i speak, read and write serbo-croatian does anyone know if there is a demand in the corps for serbo-croat linguist

Concerning TS clearances and being born in another country don't let anyone tell you it can't be done. When an investigation is conducted two of the big things they are looking for is honesty and the ability to provide the physical locations of where you have lived in the past. They also want to know the names of people who knew you at those locations. This could be a friend, neighbor, land lord, etc. Another big thing is your relative's citizenship. The investigators are mainly concerned with your immediate family members (i.e. Mother, Father, Brothers, and Sisters). Now don't worry, if one of your family members is still a citizen of a foreign country this will not keep you from getting a clearance. However it will extend the investigation. Keep this in mind however. Say your Father works for the Russian government. I seriously doubt you would be approved for a clearance. One more thing, if you yourself are not a citizen of the U.S. then you will not get a TS clearance. I will say this though; I had a friend in my platoon who emigrated to the U.S. from communist Poland when he was 15, so he spoke Polish fluently. Although he was not a linguist he still did linguist work on some occasions. For instance, a Polish officer came to the base one time and they pulled him to be a translator for the Commanding General of 2nd Marine Division. He later received his citizenship and made a lat move to linguist. And by the way if you obtain a green card and join the military your citizenship is pretty much guaranteed.

Red, your carrer planner is dead wrong. You can lat move after two years. Seen it done. Unfourtunantly most Marines don't know this. It's even easier if you go CI/HUMINT. I would imagine liguist would be pretty easy as well. Anyway, if I where you I would contact the linguist monitor and ask him how to go about it. Keep in mind, you will have to either extend or reenlist.

quote:

Originally posted by RedBeast:
Well I talked to my carrer planner today and he said that right now I can't latmove, I gotta wait 'till my last year. I asked him what about the clearance (TS takes up to a year) and he said I can start now by applying for secret at S-2. I do not understand how it works, if I get secret now, will I be able to just upgrade to TS during my last year or what? Or will there have to be the whole new investigation as if I didn't have any clearance at all?

Gurgis - couple of points:

1. I wouldn't count on your unit reimbursing you for your trip to the ME for language training. There are funds for immersion training, but it's usually limited to 26xx or 02xx types. It may be possible, but if you are counting on it I would get it in writing if possible.

2. If your unit is getting ready to deploy to the ME, you are about to be put in the best immersion training of your life. I hadn't spoke Arabic in almost 10 years when I got sent to Iraq - within a few weeks I was back at the same level I was when I was speaking all the time. The fact that I was training the Iraqi Security Forces had a lot to do with that.

3. Don't wait for your command to get you the DLPT - go to the Base Education Center (either at K-Bay or the Navy Ed Center at Pearl Harbor) and tell them you want to take the test. Unless things have changed, they should be able to administer the test. After you take the test, assuming that you get at least a 2/2, you can put in an AA form for the additional MOS of interpreter and will start getting FLPP. If for some reason you can't get the DLPT, try calling DLI and getting an OPI done (what Dtronix talked about in his post).

4. Are you with 4th Force in Hawaii? I'm taking a guess because of your 0321 MOS. Is Leffernan still around?

Dtronix-
Yes I meant DLPT, I took the MSA version it was difficult because of how the questions increase in difficulty quite quickly (my opinion.)

I like the sound of the OPI, I've never heard of that (that being one of the advantages of this web site I suppose.) I feel I'd be much stronger in that kind of examination however over the phone brings the advantage back down.

I'm sure you're completely right about studying at DLI. I didn't mean to snub it in my post. It'd be naive of me to think that I'd found a better way than the US govt to learn a language.

Thanks for all the assistance.

Kengardner-

I have no anticipation of them reimbursing me, this was a comment the Maj. made to me after telling me it was okay to go. One of those "..ohh, and how do you plan to pay for your trip?" "Well, Sir I Planned" Don't worry about it, we'll cover it. But I'd like to pay for it on the back end that way I don't have to say what is for. "Thank you Sir?"
I'll mention it once, get laughed at, then forget about it.

When I left, the unit was calling every manufacturer and their brother putting in huge new gear orders because of supplemental funding that gets released when you get ready to activate. (How the Lcpl saw things.) This would be the only way they'd find money to pay me for the three months.

You bring up a good point that I'm decently excited about. In sha alla, I can spend extra time with the native speakers/translators, or find some way to get some regular back-and-forth in somewhat of a learning envrioment. Im dread being stuck ONLY with 'midnight impromptu field interrogations.' Getting to go and speak and learn more is probably what I'm looking forward to most (for me personally) in this deployment, besides mission, getting everyone home.... You should know what I mean.

I'd be interested in knowing what it takes to get a score of 2/2 I hear it's pretty difficult. Best way to figure out is to try I guess.

I am with 4th Force, I don't know Leffernan. Unless if he's an Officer, there is one Major with a name like that, if that is him I've got a story about him for you, from our AT in Australia. I don't know all the HQ and I&I staff, if they're in the Platoon or were an Operator (i.e. Dive chief, S-3) I should know them.

I'll look into getting the test at K bay. I've read on wikipedia the test can be taken multiple times? Is this true?

Gurgis - getting a 2/2 on the DLPT is difficult. Of those that were left in my DLI class at the end of 63 weeks, I believe only half scored a 2/2 or better. If you have spoken Arabic quite a bit, you would probably be better off with the OPI.

When you deploy to the ME, you will be used a lot more than just for interrogations. Every time your unit goes outside the wire they are going to want you with them. You will have contract interpretors with you, but your CO will be a lot more comfortable having you there to verify what is being said. It also makes the unit look a lot better to the locals to have a Marine speak the language. Unlike a canned academic setting you will talk about everything from politics, religion, military, engineering, medical, etc.

After I wrote that last night I realized that Leffernan is probably out now. I went to dive school with him in 1990, and he was a Gunny at that time so I'm sure he probably reached his service limitations. He was a hard core SOB. One of the instructors broke his finger trying to rip his gear off during pool week. Leffernan put some tape on it and jumped back in the pool. Very motivating for a young Cpl to see.

Good luck to you over there.

Ken

By the way, if you go to the DLI website you should be able to order Arabic language materials to be sent to you. You may have to have your education officer (or any officer/SNCO) request it for you. They can send you a lot of study material (both written and DVD version).

quote:

Originally posted by kengardner:

quote:

I really want to lat move into Crypto Linguist MOS, I am fluent in Russian, however I doubt I will get that TS clearance because I was born outside the US.

It doesn't matter if you were born outside the US; what matters is the citizenship of your immediate family members. There are plenty of military and State Department brats who were born outside the US who get clearances (many with foreign mothers or fathers). My mother was a foreign citizen until about five years ago. It took me a little longer to get the clearance, but it can be done. Russian will be a little bit harder if you still have close relatives over there, but I wouldn't let that stop me from trying.

You might be better off trying to go counter-intel vice SIGINT. The HUMINT guys like having people with different cultural backgrounds (for obvious reasons) and may be more willing to take the chance of getting the clearance approved.

Just curious, I'm a US citizen but my mother is still a Taiwanese citizen holding a Green Card. Taiwan and the United States are allies.

Will that affect my ability to obtain a security clearance?

quote:

Originally posted by meannleanmarine:
Just curious, I'm a US citizen but my mother is still a Taiwanese citizen holding a Green Card. Taiwan and the United States are allies.

Will that affect my ability to obtain a security clearance?

You would be ineligible for a "TS" clearance, if one or both parents are not US citizens. My co-workers son was ineligible for his, solely because his Mom was born outside the US and currently a legal resident (GC holder). This counts for ALL, regardless if anyone's family come from a friendly, or hostile nation.

As for a "Secret", both my parents were legal residents when I had my "S" clearance.

quote:

Just curious, I'm a US citizen but my mother is still a Taiwanese citizen holding a Green Card. Taiwan and the United States are allies.

Will that affect my ability to obtain a security clearance?

Just to add to what Hollywood said: It won't affect getting a Secret clearance. As for TS/SCI I was in the same boat when I got my paperwork started. I was able to get an interim TS by having my mother submit a letter stating that she was in the process of getting her citizenship. Once she finally got it, I was able to get the actual TS/SCI by showing her certificate.

Ken-

I figured it'd be quite tough since it only goes to 3/3. I found a sight with the scoring after my post earlier and I also downloaded a familiarization packet for the 'new' Arabic DLPT 5? It's got 15 pages or so of sample questions and I'm very interested in getting the study packet from DLI. I looked on Amazon for some kind of practice test booklet like you can find for the LSAT/GRE/MCATs but no luck. Not very many people take it I guess, in comparison. Ha

I'd really like to have the opportunity to work with our assigned interpretor and what-not.
I guess at this point all I can do is wait. I know it may sound pretentious but I'm equally as concerned that I'd be pulled away from operating as much because of my perceived value to other assets. In the same token I guess I could be tasked with each team on each mission because of what I could offer. It should be interesting. My TL is hoping I can ease drop conversations between locals which is ridiculous. I guess they had a Lebanese guys when he was working PSD for provisional authority that could anticipate situations by doing such.

I'll try to bump this thread and update you how things unravel.

Fb

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