Can someone explain to me how the whole "if you get passed over twice for promotion, you get kicked out" works? Is it difficult to get promoted, and how often do people get passed over twice? Im a reserve GM3 and considering going into ROCI, but a little nervous about that whole phenomena there. Id like to learn a bit more about it before going over to wearing brass. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Guns

The following website explains it:

http://www.uscg.mil/cgpc/opm/Opm1/opm-1boardsnonselect.asp

Regarding difficulty of promotion, the initial ranks are not hard. LTJG is "fully qualified" - you make it if you don't royally screw up. While LT is a "best qualified" promotion, statistically, still around 95% of people make that. It's somewhat difficult to be passed over for LT. The more senior you get, the more competitive promotion becomes - the % go down. There's only one officer in the CG at a time that becomes COMDT........everyone else either retires, separates, or is eventually asked to leave.

Dig around on the opm website, you'll find the stats.

Or to be slightly less polite, it is damn near impossible to not be able to reach retirement age without royaly, intentionally and knowingly screwing the pouch. THEN if you do fall in that bottom 5-15%, you get a nice little golden parachute and a great going away party. Far from being 'kicked out'. You are at much greater risk to be 'kicked out', for far less errors, as an enlisted person.

ok, so does that mean when its time for Lieutenant Commander, which I understand is very difficult to get promoted to, you get skipped twice for O-4 and thats the end of the road??

If you don't have at least 18 years in by then, generally yes. That said:

1. I wouldn't characterize LCDR as "very difficult". In-zone rate of selection (your chances of getting picked up when it's your turn) recently has been running in the 80%s for LCDR. Most, although not all, do make LCDR. Once you make LCDR, that's enough to be allowed to ride it out 'til retirement eligibility at 20. CDR, then CAPT get progressively harder.

2. Even if you do get passed over twice for LCDR and kicked out - as a previous poster alluded to, the severance ain't bad. $70K to $90K for most, if I remember.

3. Bottom line, don't let your fear of the downside hold you back from officer aspirations. If you do fear failure that badly - you're better off where you are.

Thanks everyone for your input. The process is alot more clear to me now, and I will be much better equipped to make my decision.

Thanks again.


GM3

Keep one thing in mind prior to making your decision. Enlisted's have all the fun jobs and less of the politics.

Roger that, Guns.



GM3

quote:

Originally posted by Mightyz90_93:
Or to be slightly less polite, it is damn near impossible to not be able to reach retirement age without royaly, intentionally and knowingly screwing the pouch. THEN if you do fall in that bottom 5-15%, you get a nice little golden parachute and a great going away party. Far from being 'kicked out'. You are at much greater risk to be 'kicked out', for far less errors, as an enlisted person.

since you want to make this a E vs O thread MC, please explain to me what those "far less errors" are?

Sac;
No intention to make it E vs O. BUT;

1) An alcohol incident at the accesion training or within 6 months of leaving for an E, immediate dismissal. What is it for a person at the Officer Accesion training, or within 6 months of it?

2) Being overweight and not meeting probation for an E? Can be out w/i 30 days. What is it for an O?

You and I could both go on for a while on the differences, but let me give in to you a little bit. "..far less erros" is a little bit off base. I would have better explained my position by saying something like "..errors further from expectations based on your grade and compensation." A person only compensated to be a messcook and expected to perform duties of an E-2 can recieve significantly more punishment than a person who has been given a commision by the President of the United States with significantly more compensation.

For example:

Twin brother Pete amd Repeat.
Pete is in his 7th week of Bootcamp.
Repeat is on a Cape May Cutter in his "1st Class" summer cruise.
They are a couple of weeks shy of their 21st birthday.
Since Pete has weekend libo, they grab a hotel room and end up getting some beer.
They get caught.
Pete will be unemployed within a week, no options.
What would happen to Repeat? Extra duty? Leave his accession training and serve out his obliserve as a BM2 or BM3?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mightyz90_93,

actually they don't send them back to the E ranks anymore...if they don't want them, why should we? Also, all those "demerits" they get for honor violations and underage drinking...those in the past were usually wiped clean hence the us versus them attitude. I used to be able to do 4 years at Canoe U., have them parties, get drunk, do some extra hours and restriction and at graduation...it all went away and got a clean slate. Does the enlisted have the same opportunity...under 21, ARI within six months of accession...you're history. After that, the rules change only slightly.

I know that Canoe U's policy was changing when I left, so I can't answer to what it is now. The current Supt was not too keen on keeping that policy. Anybody from up there care to chime in?

quote:

Originally posted by Bassai:
Can someone explain to me how the whole "if you get passed over twice for promotion, you get kicked out" works? Is it difficult to get promoted, and how often do people get passed over twice? Im a reserve GM3 and considering going into ROCI, but a little nervous about that whole phenomena there. Id like to learn a bit more about it before going over to wearing brass. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Guns

How many years do you have in the CGR?

The thirty-year clock restarts when you make O-1E. You need just 20 years of satisfactory service to retire.

I wouldn't worry about not being promoted.

During the early/mid-'90', there were High-Year Tenure and Personal Growth Points that killed a number of Reserve careers (we had about 14,500 authorized CGR billets prior to GW I, with only about 12,500 folks in those billets; after GW I, the CGR was pared back to 8,500 billets).

One of my shipmates was a LTjg; he was RIF'ed.

He ended up coming back into the program years later as a PS1, and retired after a total of 43 years service as a PS1. However, since there was no bad paper involved in his being RIF'ed, he retired as a LTjg.

Something to think about.

This December will be year # 4 for me.

So far, so good. Got my 1st Rsv. Good Conduct medal.

GM3

quote:

During the early/mid-'90', there were High-Year Tenure and Personal Growth Points

Just for clarification, those items still exist. The enforcement of PGPs is currently suspended, with the expection of E-9s PGP. This could change at an time with a simple message.

quote:

The enforcement of PGPs is currently suspended

They were suspended because the whole HYT program was a flop...

No one wanted to admit it... suspension is the quiet way of getting out of it.

Wray...

quote:

Originally posted by Bassai:
This December will be year # 4 for me.

So far, so good. Got my 1st Rsv. Good Conduct medal.

GM3

If you got selected to attend ROCI next year (let's say commissioned in August), this is how it would play out.

12/2004 - Enlisted
08/2009 - Ensign - 4 years of service
02/2011 - LTJG - 5 years of service
08/2013 - LT - 7 years of service
08/2018 - "In zone" for LCDR - 12 years

You are an ENS for 18 months, a JG for 30 months. After that, it gets fuzzy. Generally, you are a LT for 5 years.

Don't let the twice passed over deal be the only reason you don't apply for a commission.

quote:

You are an ENS for 18 months, a JG for 30 months. After that, it gets fuzzy. Generally, you are a LT for 5 years.

Actually you will get looked at for promotion at about 5 years for LCDR. So it is actually about 6 years as a LT.

By the way, once you make LCDR you are "locked in" and will be able to stay for 20 years whether you make CDR or not. A friend of mine was passed over 6 times before he made CDR.

The time you are an LT is not fixed, and is based on how many CDR's and LCDR's the CG needs. The last two promotion boards have seen that time decrease from 6 years significantly.

I know several people that are pinning on LCDR just after 5 years and they are not below zone promotions.

Let's see, I pinned on LT August 17, 2003. The results of my selection board should be posted Monday as some are already being notified of non-selection from the board that met August 25th, 2008. So that was within ten days of 5 years to get looked at for me and I am toward the last 2/3rds of the of the pack for the zone. The board looked at people from those who pinned on LT from about April 2003 to about April 2004 with the bulk being the 1999 CGA graduating class who all pinned on LT in May 2003.

That is a grouping from about 5 1/2 years to about 4 1/2 years as a LT or in other words about 5 years. The same as it has been for the last few years.

Those officers at the top of the heap will pin on pretty soon while the ones at the bottom will pin on about a year from now Depending how many they promote each month. So everyone should expect to pin on LCDR somewhere between 5 1/2 to six years from when they pinned on LT.

The exception to this are the officers who get re-racked. Two years ago, a policy came out that the board can move officers up in the selection list based on performance so if you were one of the folks on the bottom of the list and were at about 4 1/2 years you could be moved to the top of the list and would pin on quite early. That also moves everyone else back a bit.

I wish it was much earlier for most but it isn't. So, I will stand by my generalized statement that you get looked at around 5 years and pin on at about 6.

I stand corrected the message just came out today instead of Monday.

Here is how it broke down for LCDR.

81% selection rate. 312 out of 385 selected
8 members in zone reordered to the top.
30 selected above zone
none selected below zone.

Member in zone pinned on LT between 10 Jan 03 and 12 May 04

The LTs who pinned on in Jan 03 start at 41 on the list due to above zone selection and in zone reordering. So they most likely have a couple of months before they pin on making it about 5 years and 10 months as a LT. About 6 years.

Congrats to all.

Hopefully for the original poster that makes the process a little easier to understand and shows that you certainly have a chance and should not miss out on trying to be an officer in fear of not being selected.