Looking into OCS and saw an editorial on the Capemay website that stated that puttin a mid-grade enlisted candidate into an entry level officer position is a waste of one's talent. Basically, enlisted applicants are over qualified for most ensign billets and therefore have a tough time getting picked up for OCS. Any comments?

I don't think that should be an issue. I think there are other factors that disqualifies or makes an enlisted candidate less desireable for OCS, such as command endorsement, marks, personnel record etc., etc. The Coast Guard has plenty of opportunities and if you qualify make every effort to take them! Good Luck

Unless going into a new field mustangs usually are given higher responsibility jobs coming out of the gate. Most times Ensigns out of OCS can go into O-2, O-3 billets (depending on their past experience).....

I went to an O-3 Billet. It kept me very entretained...

I was a mustang and as my first tour of duty was Ops aboard USCGC Spar. Next assignment was CO of Lorsta Cape Atholl, Greenland. Both assignments were given to me based on experience and abilities demonstrated as an enlisted.

"Looking into OCS and saw an editorial on the Capemay website that stated that puttin a mid-grade enlisted candidate into an entry level officer position is a waste of one's talent. Basically, enlisted applicants are over qualified for most ensign billets and therefore have a tough time getting picked up for OCS. Any comments?"


That is one of the most ignorant statements about OCS I've heard. I spent my Ensign tour on CGC MIDGETT where I served as Navigator. I planned & executed a circumnaviagtion of the earth (41,00NM + 15 strait transits + 2 canal transits). Leadership challenges included managing a ton of work with a very small division on an extended deployment, and being a CDO in charge of inport watch sections of approx 55 people during several high threat port calls (in FPCON Bravo or Charlie). Now on my second tour & second consecutive WHEC, I'm a department head with approx 60 people in my dept, and in charge of executing all LE, Helo Ops, Boat Ops, and Gunnery + all associated training (including recerts) & materiel. I'm not trying to talk myself up, I am saying that I am most certainly challenged, and have been since I graduated OCS. Being in a highly visible position, any mistakes and/or weaknesses are immediately apparent; much more so than I ever noticed during my 11 years of enlisted service in operational jobs.

I don't know much about being ashore, but afloat, no matter how much sea time you have, you continue to learn every day (or you're not doing something right). In my opinion, the same applies to professional life in general. Sounds like that author doesn't share the same philosophy.

quote:

Basically, enlisted applicants are over qualified for most ensign billets and therefore have a tough time getting picked up for OCS.

.....it sounds like an excuse that someone would give a failed attempt to get picked-up for OCS......

"I didn't make it because I was over qualified "....the same reason some give for not getting their dream billet off of the shopping list.

Well, to be fair the portion I'm referring to is an editorial note from the author trying to explain why there are twice as many civilian applicants accepted into OCS compared with the number of enlisted that get accepted. For all I know it could be a valid explanation. It has no bearing on my decision to apply for OCS or not, but I brought it up because if there is some truth to that explanation it is total B.S., and I wanted to see what others thought. Appreciate the comments.

quote:

Originally posted by coastin:
Well, to be fair the portion I'm referring to is an editorial note from the author trying to explain why there are twice as many civilian applicants accepted into OCS compared with the number of enlisted that get accepted.

I don't believe that there are twice as many civilians accepted into OCS. The class that is getting ready to graduate is almost entirely prior enlisted. I want to see the numbers the writer is citing. Who is the guy that's writing this? What is his point of view? Does he have a bias?

How about a link to the editorial?

I'm not sure who compiled the info on this site but overall it is very helpful. I just found this one particular part very peculiar. Here's the link, just scroll down to the OCS bit.

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/capemay/e-oprograms.htm

I'm throwing out the BS flag here.....

You, as a mid-grade enlisted person, are extremely valuable to the Coast Guard where you are now. You've got both a lot of training and a lot of experience behind you. If you're selected for OCS, the enlisted corps loses all that experience and training.....and the Officer Corps gain....you're a known comodity rather than an unknown entity coming in from off the street......As a CO, which would you want?And since the Coast Guard is growing, there aren't any extra petty officers out there who have a comparable level of experience and training who can fill your billet....Wow, that's really a vote of confidence in enlisted leadership to train the future leaders

Putting you in an entry-level officer position (from a strict cost-effectiveness perspective) is a waste of your talent. As an officer, even a junior officer, you won't be in a position to do most of the work you're responsible for.Here's another way to look at it in a cost effective way....if not chosen for OCS, how many get out after their enlistment to look for other oppertunities?....let's see move a body to another position in the organization or lose the body for good..which is more cost effective? If you did, you'd be stepping on the toes of the chief, PO1, and/or PO2 who are working for you. Instead, your job is to be a facilitator for your enlisted subordinates so they can do what needs to get done with a minimum of outside interference. Because of your position, you're likely to have to bite your tongue and step aside as your enlisted subordinates perform tasks you know how to do.I don't understand this train to thought at all.....If true, wouldn't that be true for Chiefs who would be in the same position watchin a Petty Officer teaching a non-rate?

Your strictly technical knowledge and experience might justify a higher rank than ensign, but (in general) that can't be justified because you haven't yet acquired the other non-technical experience an officer of that higher rank would have acquired through various social and professional activities and contacts peculiar to officers.Yep, just as I thought, you can't teach enlisted to eat with knives and forks.....they always just eat with their hands......can't take them anywhere....seriously, it's as if the author thinks Petty Officers do one repetitive job rather than manage colateral duties and maintain day to day management..

This is why military OCS graduates are usually given positions as generalists, rather than specialists – so they can acquire that breadth of knowledge and experience officers are required to have.


I'm not even touching this next paragraph......as a mustang I don't have CGA experience, but I will bet a Bu**load of money that Academy grads will have something to say about the author saying they are equal to "off the street" OCS grad
On the other hand, civilian college graduates selected for OCS are (generally) a blank slate. For the most part they have neither a great deal of experience nor technical expertise. They're closer to the situation of a Coast Guard Academy graduate than is an enlisted OCS graduate. In one sense, it could be said that civilian OCS and CGA graduates have fewer habits (good, bad, or otherwise) that need to be broken. This allows them to be put in virtually any ensign billet.

Enlisted applicants for OCS (to use a phrase I've often encountered in the private sector job market) are over-qualified for most ensign billets.

That said, representatives from Recruiting Command recently told Coast Guard ESOs that an enlisted applicant's chances of getting selected for OCS are generally much lower than are his/her chances of being selected for PPEP (below). This is because there are so many more applicants for OCS than for PPEP.

In 2005, there were 22 qualified applicants for PPEP. Six were selected as primaries, and six were selected as alternates.

In 2005, there were 158 qualified enlisted applicants for OCS (temporary commissions). Thirty-eight were selected as primaries; eighteen were selected as alternates.

Ok, what was the # of prior enlisted that got reserve commissions (E4 and below with a college degree)......How many total OCS spots in 2005?

I sent the Cape May Command a link to the thread

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SacraficialMetal,

One more thing they might want to check out if training and cost is a factor;

How many "off the street" OCS graduates stay in past their obligated time (loss of all that training and investment).....and how many mustangs stick with it for 20 or more.....

Wait, these forks confuse me. Outside in or inside out? Crap. I know, I'll watch that guy. He went to the academy. I know because his whites are whiter.

quote:

Originally posted by SacraficialMetal:
One more thing they might want to check out if training and cost is a factor;

How many "off the street" OCS graduates stay in past their obligated time (loss of all that training and investment).....and how many mustangs stick with it for 20 or more.....

Sac
Be carfeul with that aruguement. It would take an off the street OCS person two decades to reach 20, but a Temp Commision Ensign could be at 20 in less than a decade.