From the Chicago Tribune

Catherine Vogt, 14, conducted an experiment in political tolerance at her Oak Park middle school and learned some valuable lessons. (Chicago Tribune -- November 12, 2008)

As the media keeps gushing on about how America has finally adopted tolerance as the great virtue, and that we're all united now, let's consider the Brave Catherine Vogt Experiment.

Catherine Vogt, 14, is an Illinois 8th grader, the daughter of a liberal mom and a conservative dad. She wanted to conduct an experiment in political tolerance and diversity of opinion at her school in the liberal suburb of Oak Park.

She noticed that fellow students at Gwendolyn Brooks Middle School overwhelmingly supported Barack Obama for president. His campaign kept preaching "inclusion," and she decided to see how included she could be.

So just before the election, Catherine consulted with her history teacher, then bravely wore a unique T-shirt to school and recorded the comments of teachers and students in her journal. The T-shirt bore the simple yet quite subversive words drawn with a red marker: "McCain Girl."

"I was just really curious how they'd react to something that different, because a lot of people at my school wore Obama shirts and they are big Obama supporters," Catherine told us. "I just really wanted to see what their reaction would be."

Immediately, Catherine learned she was stupid for wearing a shirt with Republican John McCain's name. Not merely stupid. Very stupid.

"People were upset. But they started saying things, calling me very stupid, telling me my shirt was stupid and I shouldn't be wearing it," Catherine said.

Then it got worse.

"One person told me to go die. It was a lot of dying. A lot of comments about how I should be killed," Catherine said, of the tolerance in Oak Park.

But students weren't the only ones surprised that she wore a shirt supporting McCain.

"In one class, I had one teacher say she will not judge me for my choice, but that she was surprised that I supported McCain," Catherine said.

If Catherine was shocked by such passive-aggressive threats from instructors, just wait until she goes to college.

"Later, that teacher found out about the experiment and said she was embarrassed because she knew I was writing down what she said," Catherine said.

One student suggested that she be put up on a cross for her political beliefs.

"He said, 'You should be crucifixed.' It was kind of funny because, I was like, don't you mean 'crucified?' " Catherine said.

Other entries in her notebook involved suggestions by classmates that she be "burned with her shirt on" for "being a filthy-rich Republican."

Some said that because she supported McCain, by extension she supported a plan by deranged skinheads to kill Obama before the election. And I thought such politicized logic was confined to American newsrooms. Yet Catherine refused to argue with her peers. She didn't want to jeopardize her experiment.

"I couldn't show people really what it was for. I really kind of wanted to laugh because they had no idea what I was doing," she said.

Only a few times did anyone say anything remotely positive about her McCain shirt. One girl pulled her aside in a corner, out of earshot of other students, and whispered, "I really like your shirt."

That's when you know America is truly supportive of diversity of opinion, when children must whisper for fear of being ostracized, heckled and crucifixed.

The next day, in part 2 of The Brave Catherine Vogt Experiment, she wore another T-shirt, this one with "Obama Girl" written in blue. And an amazing thing happened.

Catherine wasn't very stupid anymore. She grew brains.

"People liked my shirt. They said things like my brain had come back, and I had put the right shirt on today," Catherine said.

Some students accused her of playing both sides.

"A lot of people liked it. But some people told me I was a flip-flopper," she said. "They said, 'You can't make up your mind. You can't wear a McCain shirt one day and an Obama shirt the next day.' "

But she sure did, and she turned her journal into a report for her history teacher, earning Catherine extra credit. We asked the teacher, Norma Cassin-Pountney, whether it was ironic that Catherine would be subject to such intolerance from pro-Obama supporters in a community that prides itself on its liberal outlook.

"That's what we discussed," Cassin-Pountney said about the debate in the classroom when the experiment was revealed. "I said, here you are, promoting this person [Obama] that believes we are all equal and included, and look what you've done? The students were kind of like, 'Oh, yeah.' I think they got it."

Catherine never told us which candidate she would have voted for if she weren't an 8th grader. But she said she learned what it was like to be in the minority.

"Just being on the outside, how it felt, it was not fun at all," she said.

Don't ever feel as if you must conform, Catherine. Being on the outside isn't so bad. Trust me.

Yes, kids suck. Look around these forums and see how the adults act. Liberals are called Commies, Fascists, morons, cultists, unAmerican...
Conservatives are not treated much better.
All any of this proves is that humans are pack animals that respond poorly to those outside their pack.

This doesn't prove crapola.

While there are plenty of ideologues on both sides of the aisle, my experience is that liberals have the "inclusion" message down to a brutal art. Crucifixion comes close.

[Moderator hat off]

I have not been villified on any of these forums for my support to a candidate. If someone calls me a name and wants to attack me for what I believe without knowing me, I know they have no basis for a debate.

I read posts from people for about 4-5 hours a day and see where we could all improve.

1. If someone calls you a name based on your post, re-read your post and see if you can interpret it from their point of view. If that was your intent, say so. If that was not your intent, apologize.

2. If someone attacks you for being a republican or democrat, remind them that you have not attacked them for their party affiliation.

3. Be open minded. If you can sway someone with a intelligent debate of a subject, then you can be swayed too. Know that you don't know everything and be willing to learn and research.

4. Finally, remember after 9/11 when you were stuck in traffic and someone let you merge in when just a week before, it would have taken you an hour to merge into traffic.....or when you bumped into someone and said "excuse me" and their reply was "it is alright" when a week before, it would have been "watch what the he11 you are doing". People didn't have tolerance for one another, they respected one another and we have gotten away from that.

I respect people's opinions and am willing to look at both sides of a coin. If you are unwilling to do that, how can you say that you are tolerant of others.

Just my two cents.....

[Moderator hat back on]

Heard a poem once long ago that E-9s were gods. Perhaps that is why others don't mess with you, SgtMaj.

quote:

Originally posted by vighper:

I have not been villified on any of these forums for my support to a candidate. If someone calls me a name and wants to attack me for what I believe without knowing me, I know they have no basis for a debate.

quote:

Originally posted by itismarine:
Heard a poem once long ago that E-9s were gods. Perhaps that is why others don't mess with you, SgtMaj.

quote:

Originally posted by vighper:

I have not been villified on any of these forums for my support to a candidate. If someone calls me a name and wants to attack me for what I believe without knowing me, I know they have no basis for a debate.

"E9's" were never gods...."Master Chiefs" on the other hand.......

quote:

Originally posted by jack_flats:
This doesn't prove crapola.

Change it around to Obama and you would be trying to sue someone, jack, at least be consistant.

quote:

Originally posted by L0A1:

quote:

Originally posted by jack_flats:
This doesn't prove crapola.

Change it around to Obama and you would be trying to sue someone, jack, at least be consistant.

Several faults with this entire thread.

First - The Tribune is about as "fair and balanced" as Faux News or the Washington Times. In fact, it's usually described as "The Washington Time, without all that "liberal bias""

Second - The Repuke Party and the CONservative movement is now reduced to using 14 year old girls and incoherent former beauty contestants as their spokepersons.

Third - Whatever does this prove? Even if true, there are multiple stories of McCain/Palin supporters yelling stuff like "kill him", "terrorist", "traitor" crap at "actual campaign events", that, were we to give this thread a hint of credibility, then we'd have to conclude that the same applies to the Repub supporters.

Sorry, but this story may rate a spinning siren on Drudge, but, like Bogie said; "it don't amount to a hill of beans in this world"

quote:

Originally posted by jack_flats:
This doesn't prove crapola.

If you don't expect much from some folks, you're never disappointed. Case in point with the above post.

yup you better check your 6...

quote:

Originally posted by WhoFreak:

quote:

Originally posted by L0A1:

quote:

Originally posted by jack_flats:
This doesn't prove crapola.

Change it around to Obama and you would be trying to sue someone, jack, at least be consistant.

Several faults with this entire thread.

First - The Tribune is about as "fair and balanced" as Faux News or the Washington Times. In fact, it's usually described as "The Washington Time, without all that "liberal bias""

Second - The Repuke Party and the CONservative movement is now reduced to using 14 year old girls and incoherent former beauty contestants as their spokepersons.

Third - Whatever does this prove? Even if true, there are multiple stories of McCain/Palin supporters yelling stuff like "kill him", "terrorist", "traitor" crap at "actual campaign events", that, were we to give this thread a hint of credibility, then we'd have to conclude that the same applies to the Repub supporters.

Sorry, but this story may rate a spinning siren on Drudge, but, like Bogie said; "it don't amount to a hill of beans in this world"

The story says alot. Just look at what you wrote. "Repuke Party, CONservative movement." You only argue to argue. There is not meat and potatoes to what you say. Your just like what the girl talks about. Yet, the sad thing is...you don't even see it.

quote:

Originally posted by jack_flats:
This doesn't prove crapola.

LOL I think you just made crzymdc point! This is funny.

by crzymdc:Yes, kids suck. Look around these forums and see how the adults act. Liberals are called Commies, Fascists, morons, cultists, unAmerican...
Conservatives are not treated much better.
All any of this proves is that humans are pack animals that respond poorly to those outside their pack.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: <klassylady25>,

quote:

Originally posted by jack_flats:
This doesn't prove crapola.

I have two teenage sons. They experience this alot.


In case you missed this on the first thread. This is not uncommon. Had a black 20 something teacher try to teach my son that Orwell's 'Animal Farm' was a civil rights story about Martin Luther King.

'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W7tdmkDsmI&feature=related'

quote:

Even if true, there are multiple stories of McCain/Palin supporters yelling stuff like "kill him",

They are just that: stories. Not even the secret service will back up those claims and they were there, watching and listening for just that sort of thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Anbar7:

quote:

Originally posted by WhoFreak:

quote:

Originally posted by L0A1:

quote:

Originally posted by jack_flats:
This doesn't prove crapola.

Change it around to Obama and you would be trying to sue someone, jack, at least be consistant.

Several faults with this entire thread.

First - The Tribune is about as "fair and balanced" as Faux News or the Washington Times. In fact, it's usually described as "The Washington Time, without all that "liberal bias""

Second - The Repuke Party and the CONservative movement is now reduced to using 14 year old girls and incoherent former beauty contestants as their spokepersons.

Third - Whatever does this prove? Even if true, there are multiple stories of McCain/Palin supporters yelling stuff like "kill him", "terrorist", "traitor" crap at "actual campaign events", that, were we to give this thread a hint of credibility, then we'd have to conclude that the same applies to the Repub supporters.

Sorry, but this story may rate a spinning siren on Drudge, but, like Bogie said; "it don't amount to a hill of beans in this world"

The story says alot. Just look at what you wrote. "Repuke Party, CONservative movement." You only argue to argue. There is not meat and potatoes to what you say. Your just like what the girl talks about. Yet, the sad thing is...you don't even see it.

Do we need to start creating the BDS into the SDS or the ODS?

WhoFreak, Your post alone proves many points. You insult people in your post trying to defend what people did to this Experiemental project.

You must have been one of them, huh?

quote:

Originally posted by crzymdc:
Yes, kids suck. Look around these forums and see how the adults act. Liberals are called Commies, Fascists, morons, cultists, unAmerican...
Conservatives are not treated much better.
All any of this proves is that humans are pack animals that respond poorly to those outside their pack.

quote:

Originally posted by jack_flats:
This doesn't prove crapola.

[Moderator hat off]

Jack_flats - Look at the words you just posted. Do they provide any type of information? No, they convey and project your disgust for a subject without adding to the discussion. Is that your intent?

If it is not your intent and you would like to add to the discussion, please do.

Would your response have been the same if the story had President-Elect Obama as the underdog?

If you can prove that the story is bogus, please prove it and allow people that read your post to walk away from it with information.

From your avatar, I can see that you are proud of the President-Elect, so I assume you voted for him. I voted for Senator McCain and since he did not win, I will support the President-Elect with the same vigor that I have supported the past four Presidents. Can you say that you would do the same if the situation were reversed?

Be a better person and contribute to a discussion/debate rather than trying to disrupt.

[Moderator hat back on]

oh please.