Aybody have any low down on the possibility of an LE rate, and will OS's be considered for lateral or just the physical BO, BTM, VBST types... CUZ i know there OS out there handiling delaing with PD-27's, SNO's etc....

From everything I've read and heard, no there will not be an LE rate. Everything I've read (some on the BM and LE type rates for reserves and Special Agent) says no. When we had a chance to speak with the MCPOCG last year or year before about the DOGG and where it was going exactly, again, the answer was no. But, however, comma, what they do want to do is an LE concentration within rates so they can keep the knowledge in the area as much as possible while still meeting the needs of the Coast Guard. My opinion on translation, if you put in for an LE position and you have met your sea time requirements and a little diversity in the beginning of your career as far as assignments, then you will be able to somewhat streamline your billets when available.

In other words, if you are lucky enough to have LE billets available, you have a chance at getting them. Pretty much like today.

That's my understanding on the whole LE situation.

yea I was thinkin that, that hands on types vice the admin types would have first crack at it anyways. Arent DOG memebrs already billeted... I wouldnt really see a need for the rate unless all facits, (both admin = SNO's, LE case prosecution) and (hands on = BTM, BO) were considered......

Here is my current take.

1. There will not be an "LE RATE," noone would ever approve that and anyone wanting to go there would be a fool, since there would be zero chance for advancement!
2. The likelyhood of an LE Rating is significantly higher, but probably won't happen either as a LE Rating per se. The super-duper-huge majority of LE done in the CG would not be even touched by any of the potential 'ratings' that had been dicsussed. Now, some of the SPECIALIZED jobs done today by folks in NDPO (Petty Officer) billets and a few more done in rating specific billets would be what a new rating might do. Think of TACLETS/LEDETS/VBSS/MSST BOARDING TEAMS and the like. yeah - in the vicinity of LE, but not soley LE and not the WHOLE CG LE Program.

As far as us - I see very, very little potential for an OS who has been doing OS jobs to be eleigible for this. We will still be doing the EXACT same thing in EVERY LE case then that we do now.

It will be a LONG, LONG time before we know who wil be able to apply IF this happens.

Really, no LE specific rating? But I just heard my BOSN talking about an LE rating a few weeks ago............oh wait that was 520 weeks ago in 1988! -Jeff

Jeff;
two things:

1988 was about 1040 weeks ago - you are older than you thought! 520 weeks ago was 1998!

when read carefully, you will see some of my remarks centered a bit around semantics. (OK - some more than a bit). If the new rating being looked at happens, LE will be a significant part of their daily job. I am just saying that they won't be a major part of the CGs LE Mission. Further, the primary focus area might be better described as homeland security & defense. Both of those have an LE component of course and many 'traditional LE' missions have a HLS/D component.

Thanks for the correction Master Chief, you are right, my how time flies! I was just trying to be humorous, it was not my intent to take a jab at your post, my point being that 20 years ago an LE rating was "Right around the corner" Thanks again! -Jeff

I saw no jabs - just humor!

For further info: Please read carefully! Note that routine OS duties are not within the scope of this.

R 221356Z JAN 08 ZUI ASN-A00022000004
FM COMDT COGARD WASHINGTON DC//CG-01//
TO ALCOAST
BT
UNCLAS //N01040//
ALCOAST 023/08
SUBJ: ARMED LAW ENFORCEMENT AND SECURITY OCCUPATIONAL ANALYSIS
SURVEY
1. IN OCTOBER 2007, I INITIATED PHASE II OF THE LAW ENFORCEMENT,
TACTICAL AND SECURITY GROUP OCCUPATION (LETSGO) STUDY. THIS EFFORT
BUILDS UPON THE FINDINGS OF THE FIRST PHASE AND IS CURRENTLY
ANALYZING THE TRAINING AND CAREER NEEDS OF ACTIVE DUTY AND RESERVE
PERSONNEL WHO PERFORM ARMED LAW ENFORCEMENT AND SECURITY DUTIES.
2. WE ARE NOW ENTERING A KEY STAGE OF PHASE II. BEGINNING 22
JANUARY, THOUSANDS OF ENLISTED MEN AND WOMEN WILL PARTICIPATE IN
THE ARMED LAW ENFORCEMENT AND SECURITY OCCUPATIONAL ANALYSIS
SURVEY. THIS ON-LINE SURVEY WILL IDENTIFY THE COMMON SKILLS,
KNOWLEDGE, AND EXPERIENCES THAT WILL INFORM DECISIONS REGARDING THE
POSSIBLE CREATION OF A NEW RATING AND DEVELOPMENT OF OTHER HUMAN
RESOURCE ACTIONS. ALL CG ACTIVE DUTY AND RESERVE ENLISTED PERSONNEL
CURRENTLY PERFORMING ARMED LAW ENFORCEMENT AND SECURITY RELATED
DUTIES, ALL DSF PERSONNEL, AND ALL RESERVE PORT SECURITY (PS)
PERSONNEL WILL RECEIVE A DIRECT EMAIL, WITH AN EMBEDDED LINK,
ASKING THEM TO COMPLETE THE SURVEY. IF YOU DO NOT RECEIVE AN EMAIL
AND YOU FALL WITHIN ONE OF THESE CATEGORIES, YOU ARE ENCOURAGED TO
TAKE THE SURVEY BY GOING TO WWW.MTISURV.COM/LE PASSWORD FOR THE
SURVEY IS ENFORCEMENT. THE SURVEY WILL BE AVAILABLE ON BOTH THE
INTRANET AND INTERNET ALLOWING COMPLETION USING EITHER A CG OR HOME
COMPUTER SYSTEM.
3. TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE REGARDING THIS SURVEY, ESPECIALLY
BETWEEN NOW AND THE DATE OF THE FIRST SURVEY DATA PULL ON 18 FEB
08. TIMELY COMPLETION OF THIS SURVEY IS ESSENTIAL TO THE SUCCESS
OF THE LETSGO STUDY AND FUTURE IMPROVEMENTS TO OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT
AND SECURITY MISSIONS. THE LETSGO PHASE I REPORT OUTLINED WHY
FUNDAMENTAL AND CONCRETE STEPS TOWARD ESTABLISHING LAW ENFORCEMENT,
TACTICAL, AND SECURITY GROUP DUTIES AS AN OCCUPATION, COMPETENCY,
OR SPECIALITY MUST BE TAKEN, AND WITH URGENCY.
4. TO EMPHASIZE URGENCY, I HAVE ASSIGNED A STRICT AND AGGRESSIVE
PLAN OF ACTION AND MILESTONES (POAM) TO THE STUDY GROUP. ALTHOUGH
THE SURVEY WILL OFFICIALLY CLOSE ON 14 MARCH, A WIDESPREAD FIELD
RESPONSE TO THE SURVEY BY 18 FEB WILL SIGNIFICANTLY ASSIST THE
STUDY TEAM IN PREPARING FOR THE ANALYTICAL PART OF PHASE II. 18
FEB IS A KEY WAY POINT AS IT WILL SHAPE OUR UNDERSTANDING OF
DEMOGRAPHICS AND PROGRESS TOWARDS ACHIEVING FULL PARTICIPATION.
COMMANDING OFFICERS, OFFICERS IN CHARGE AND SUPERVISORS OF
PERSONNEL IDENTIFIED IN PARAGRAPH TWO SHOULD MAKE EVERY REASONABLE
EFFORT TO ENABLE PERSONNEL TO EXPEDITIOUSLY COMPLETE THE SURVEY.
REACHING OUT TO RESERVISTS BETWEEN DRILL PERIODS TO NOTIFY THEM OF
THE SURVEY AND ABILITY TO ACCESS FROM HOME IS ENCOURAGED.
5. THE AVERAGE SURVEY COMPLETION TIME IS 60-90 MINUTES. THE SURVEY
CAN BE SAVED AND COMPLETED IN MULTIPLE SESSIONS. PARTICIPATION BY
A MAJORITY OF ARMED LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSONNEL WILL BE A VALUABLE
INVESTMENT IN THE FUTURE OF OUR ENLISTED WORK FORCE PERFORMING
THESE IMPORTANT DUTIES. UNITS DEPLOYED DURING THE SURVEY PERIOD
THAT EXPERIENCE DIFFICULTY ACCESSING THE SURVEY WILL BE PROVIDED A
DEADLINE EXTENSION TO FACILITATE PARTICIPATION BY THEIR ENLISTED
PERSONNEL.
6. I WANT TO THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR PARTICIPATION IN THIS
IMPORTANT ENDEAVOR. MY POINT OF CONTACT FOR QUESTIONS REGARDING
THE LETSGO II STUDY IS CDR JAMES M. KELLY, JAMES.M.KELLY3(AT)
USCG.MIL. QUESTIONS ABOUT THE SURVEY SHOULD BE DIRECTED TO PTC
REPRESENTATIVES LCDR TIMOTHY HAWS AT (757)856-2173 OR MR. WILLIAM
SELETYN AT (757)856-2027.
7. INTERNET RELEASE AUTHORIZED.
8. VADM ROBERT J. PAPP COAST GUARD CHIEF OF STAFF, SENDS.
BT
NNNN

On this survey there is quite a bit of information that we do work with though in Command Centers and if you do boardings. Even if not there is a section that asks what you do in the command centers and CIC so it's not a waste of time to complete the survey.

The questions in the survey are irrelevant. The people who are intended to take it are those that are straping on a gun and out in the field. You might not have thought it was a waste of time, but if you don't meet the target gorup, you would be tainting the data.

do we have enough people to fill this rate and how big will it be??

I can't answer either question yet with any confidence. In part, that is what the data from the survey will help us figure out. That is why it is vital that as many people WHO MEET THE TARGET AUDIENCE of the survey take it and that people who DO NOT MEET THE TARGET AUDIENCE refrain from taking it.

Some off the cuff guesses:

Q Do we have enough people?
Probably, but it will be a challenge. Like any 'special' competency type of job (CC, REC, TACLET, etc), the current mix of folks is normally lumped up at a small paygrade range. For example - the people performing "IS" duties were centered heavily at the E-6 grade when it was not a rating specific duty. So we had 'enough people' to fill that rating, but not the right mix of people. That is where the challenge will come in.

Q How big will it be?
That is another thing the survey will help us determine. Believe it or not, the range of suggestions (between AD and CGR) has been from ~300 to over 8000.

One final thing - and I will keep cutting on you until you correct basic terminology - there will never be "an L/E Rate." An occupational specialty is a RATING. A rate is the title asociated with an enlisted members paygrade. For example - my RATE is OSCM or MCPO. My rating is OS. A lot of folks may think these little things are not important, but they are simple and they are important. Choosing to know and use proper terms is a vital part of being succesful both as a member and as a leader! Please work on that!

Sorry MC, but last time I was on a 378' anyone could do LE. Infact 90% of our boarding teams came from RDs & QMs. To sit there and say we have no busniess taking this survey is a little short sighted. Also as of this morning I had sitting in my email in box an email from Adm Riker telling me to take this survey. So it seems to me that everyone that has any assotiation with LE, be it the people that strap the guns on and do physical boardings or those of us at Command Centers that oversee the boardings and make sure the people that go in harms way have the correct info, should be taking part in this. Looks like they are trying to get feed back from all angles.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Palleon,

Paleon;
Read my posts and read the email again. Then, consider the job and experiences of the person you are responding too.

ALL CG ACTIVE DUTY AND RESERVE ENLISTED PERSONNEL
CURRENTLY PERFORMING ARMED LAW ENFORCEMENT AND SECURITY RELATED
DUTIES, ALL DSF PERSONNEL, AND ALL RESERVE PORT SECURITY (PS)
PERSONNEL WILL RECEIVE A DIRECT EMAIL, WITH AN EMBEDDED LINK,
ASKING THEM TO COMPLETE THE SURVEY. IF YOU DO NOT RECEIVE AN EMAIL
AND YOU FALL WITHIN ONE OF THESE CATEGORIES, YOU ARE ENCOURAGED TO
TAKE THE SURVEY

As a member of the team that gathered to validate this survey and orient it towards the target audience, I can add some insight here. MC is correct in regards to it is meant for ARMED law enforcement/security members. This includesBTM/BO/PSU/TACLET/MSST/MSRT/DIVE/K-9. It is not oriented towards a member that may have conducted MLE in the past. Majority of the survey questions say at the top the page "current duty station." On the flip side, the initial questions on the beginning of the identify who are(rating wise) and what kind of billet you are in. That will tell the Analysis folks that you are not conducting armed law enforcement. Hope this helps eliminate some confusion.

MK1

Thanks MK1 - and great point about "what you are doing NOW." Technically, if someone reads the question and then answers honestly, the survey will pretty much end right there if they don't strap on a gun as part of their CURRENT job. However, having had to do an OA, I know how carefully people read before they answer!

I just completed the survey. It looks like a broad continuation of the BTM/BO focus group I attended at the MLEA last month.
I'm not sure how I read it, but I hope this survey isn't available to EVERY eager Joe Coastie b/c just like MC said it would throw off the results of the "targeted personnel" and give the analyzers that much more work to weed out the unwarranted responses.

quote:

Originally posted by sstrahan:
On the flip side, the initial questions on the beginning of the identify who are(rating wise) and what kind of billet you are in. That will tell the Analysis folks that you are not conducting armed law enforcement. Hope this helps eliminate some confusion.

MK1

I hope they take into acount that just because your not in an LE billet doesn't mean you don't do LE. I work in a command center and am a member of the LE team.

Read the emails, the message and if you meet the target audience, the survey. Read each question and answer it truthfully. Look carefully, becuase the phrase "In your job, right now, do you......"

The Command Center is NOT, I repeat NOT, part of ANY ARMED LE MISSION. Use the fancy 'team' word any way you want to, but for the purpose discussed, we do no do Armed LE by sitting in the CC. If you, in your current assignment, strap on a gun and out out and act in an LE Capacity while carrying that gun, this survey is for you.

This survey is a small part of a VERY LARGE and COMPLICATED process and the info they are looking for is from the people IDd.