Hey fellow Engineers - This is my first posting. I'm a former AC EN officer, now in the IMA reserves. Here is my question:
In the civilian world I'm a project manager for a DoD contractor. I'm currently hiring guys for an overseas mission and just finished interviewing candidates for my Chief Engineer position. My 2 deputies really like this one guy, but his resume seems too good to be true (7th ID in Panama, 101st for Peacekeeping duty in the Sinai, 10th Mountain in Somalia). About 10 of his 15 years were spent at Bragg, which leads me to question #1 - Why get out if he had 15 years active time?
I went through his application packet and took a close look at his certificate of completion from Sapper School - And it looked nothing like mine. So here is question #2 (The original reason for this post) - Can anyone tell me what a certificate of completion from the Sapper Leader Course looked like in 1992? Better yet, can anyone provide a jpeg of one? I went to Sapper School in 1995 right after OBC. My certificate was pretty low key; tan parchment paper, and EN Regimental crest, my name looked like it had been typed in by hand, it listed my class #, and it was signed by the SLC OIC. The certificate allegedly awarded in 1992 (the one included in the applicant's file) has a big Sapper tab near the top, is printed on light colored paper, his name in a cursive font, there is no class #, and it is signed by the EN School commandant.
Maybe they changed the diploma changed between 1992 and 1995? My company prohibits me from demanding a copy of his DD214, his references are OK (but not military b/c he's been out since '99), and I like the guy (I think).
Maybe this is a dumb hiring criteria, but it all comes down to the authenticity of that certificate. If he's untruthful about his military record, how can I trust him w/ gazillions of dollars of taxpayers money.
THANK YOU ALL FOR TAKING THE TIME TO READ THIS VOLUMINOUS POSTING.
You do have a right as a prospective employer to demand a copy of the DD-214. If it ain't there it ain't. The certificate sounds like one of those ON-Line fakes. I've seeen them for Tracker School also and they are completly fakes.
Here is how good the fakes are. I have seen people try to pass fake certs among general conversation and comparing schools. The ones with fancy signatures that are generic script are a dead giveaway. Check this link as there are probably others like this. http://citationexpress.com/Cert_Sapper%20School%20army.htm
To expand on the last posting, these are marketed as "replacements" to lost or damaged originals. As to insecure people that neeed to inflate their military history, this may be a way the help.
Yeah, I've looked at some of those sites and most of the certificates are pretty bad - Although I actually used one once to get a copy of my diploma from jump school that was nice enough to frame. That one looked identical to my original, same signatures, etc, just brighter colors.
This guy's certificate looks similar to the sapper certificate on the website you linked to - It doesn't have the excess verbage on the bottom, and his name, rank, and class # appear to have been typed in. I mean, it looks authentic, but he just seems too good to be true.
The 1SG of my reserve unit showed me his certificate from back in the 80's, and it looked totally different - So I know that the school changes them from time to time.
I'm calling the SLC NCOIC next week to see if he can dig up a copy from the 1992-93 time frame. Hopefully, he can email me a sample of on of those certificates. If not, is there anyone else out there who attended in the early 90's who can either email me a copy of theirs, or at least describe it in detail?
When the Sapper Tab became official I ran into a situation kinda like yours. I had an NCO who swore up and down that he had graduated Sapper School but had lost his certificate. All I did was called Sapper School and they looked up his name and confirmed that they had no records of him completing the course. They might be willing to do the same with you.
Originally posted by michaelsmith145: My company prohibits me from demanding a copy of his DD214, his references are OK (but not military b/c he's been out since '99), and I like the guy (I think).
I have never heard of a company's prohibiting a DD214 request. That is one of the very reasons DD214's are made. If a soldier or veteran is claiming military experience, the DD214 proves it. There is a DOD website that you can enter a soldier's info to see if they are currently on active duty ( https://www.dmdc.osd.mil/scra/owa/home ).
The public has access to certain military service information without the veteran's authorization (or that of the next-of-kin of deceased veterans). Examples of information which may be available from Official Military Personnel Files without an unwarranted invasion of privacy include:
* Name * Service Number * Dates of Service * Branch of Service * Rank and Date of Rank * Salary * * Assignments and Geographical Locations * Source of Commission * * Military Education * Promotion Sequence Number * * Awards and decorations (Eligibility only, not actual medals) * Duty Status * Photograph * Transcript of Court-Martial Trial * Place of entrance and separation
If the veteran is deceased:
* Place of birth * Date and geographical location of death * Place of burial
Items marked with an asterisk are rarely available in the records we maintain.
Well back in the late 70's when I went thru my training there was no such thing as Sapper school but later after I got out they started it. But yet now they tell me I was a Sapper because the way we were trained compared to now adays..There fore I am eligable to wear the sapper tab and do proudly wear it as a tab above my 2nd Inf Div patch tattoed on my right shoulder. Yes I am a Life Member of the VFW. Now lets see this certificate that I'm supposed to have? Now for some help from any fellow Engr... I'm trying to find out what web site or who to contact about a incident that happened in Korea(Camp Casey) on the rifle range the names and the date. I know it was in 1981
