2 totally different MOS's. I was an Airborne Engineer with the 307th {82nd}, and 12b/21b are like breachers for swat teams [and then some}. Yes we learned about booby traps, door charges and also offensive demolitions, amonium nitrate, feild expedient explosives, fugas ect. ect. My favorite is the implosion charge. Both jobs could be considered "specialty" Mos's. Combat Engineers are trigger puller grunts with demo and mine detectors. EOD "operators" are not trigger pullers per se, and only fire in defense. You will never find an EOD Specialist breaching an obstacle for an infantry assault that said EOD "operator" then takes part in as part of the stack. Engineers shape the battlefield offensively and defensively. EOD mitigates highly complex UXO that would be dangerous or outside of the Engineer's scope of duties which is offensive and defensive combat manueverability. Could they change duties breifly, sure. But it would be to the detriment of the infantry troops supported would it be permanent.

I believe it's pretty naive to say that an EOD Tech is not a trigger puller. I know plenty of Marine EOD "trigger pullers" who have been in embedded with Marine Recon and now MarSOC as well as Navy EOD attached to the SEALS and Army SF. Maybe its an Army thing but I know the Marine/Navy/Air Force all use EOD on the "black side" of the house.

Here we go, EOD is not by it's definition an offensive combat element. Combat Engineers are. Can EOD pull a trigger? Sure. But is their secondary MOS infantry? No. Also one thing to point out is that there are no females in the 21B mos there are in EOD. This is becuase 21B is a combat MOS whilst EOD "is not". Truck drivers and cooks pull triggers too. Is that thier primary job though? Also Navy EOD is used quite differently than the Army side. They're considered Specops and as such get further training in insertion methods and combat skills. Could any EOD tech assigned to a specops unit be part of the stack, sure. Semantics. It's not their primary job to close with and destroy the enemy unlike the soldiers they support.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: nateljen80,

Actually the Marine Corps does have female engineers and female EOD Techs, because there are certain billets that females can fill within those MOS'(i.e. support and wing billets). They may never serve with a combat unit like a combat engineer battalion but they can serve within a support battalion or wing support squadron. Honestly between the Army and Marine Corps this can go on for a long time being structured totally different so lets both quit while we're ahead.

An Engineer is not a Combat Engineer hero. And there are no female {Combat} Engineers meaning MOS 21B or the Marine Corps Equivalent. You're getting butthurt about a fact that has nothing to do with what I say, it's just a fact. Sorry, EOD guys and gals are great. They have a dangerous job and an unenviable task. But they are not Combat troops. If they were females would be ineligible.

Well actually the Marine Corps MOS 1371 is a Combat Engineer and a Combat Engineer in the Marine Corps is 1371, male or female, whether or not either of us like it. They'll never serve in a combat billet but it is in their job title. IMO just because you put the word combat in front of something doesn't make it true. The Marine Corps also has this terrible thing called a Combat Logistics Battalion, so far from the truth is the combat portion, the only affiliation with combat is the 3-B's they provide for it.

Oh lord, your right I'm wrong. Combat Engineers have women and EOD techs are trigger pullers. Happy? I see in your profile that your a Marine EOD tech. You have my respect as do any of our brothers and sisters over there. However, occording to Army doctrine, Combat engineers are a combat MOS and therefore are closed to women. I would like to see your proof of there being females that are serving on line with the infantry in the Marine Corps. I dont care what their title says. A combat engineer or "sapper" advances with front line infantry. There are no female "sappers" in any branch of service. If your arguement is that EOD is combat whilst Combat Engineer is just a title you'd be wrong. Your getting into semantics here.In the U.S. Army, Sappers are combat engineers who advance with the front-line infantry, and they have fought in every war in American history. The designation is earned as an additional proficiency.

The U.S. Army authorizes four skill tabs[citation needed] for wear above the unit patch on the left shoulder. Three of these tabs identify soldiers who have passed a course proving their leadership and adaptability: the Special Forces tab, the Ranger Tab, and the Sapper Tab, in that order of wear from highest to lowest. The President's Hundred Tab is worn for the best marksmen in the Army.

To wear the Sapper Tab, a Soldier must complete the Sapper Leader Course which is operated by the U.S. Army Engineer School at Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri. The Sapper Leader Course is a 28-day course designed to train joint-service leaders in small unit tactics, leadership skills, and tactics required to perform as part of a combined arms team. The course is open to enlisted Soldiers in the grades of E-4 (in the Army, specialist) and above, cadets, and officers O-3 (Army, captain) and below. Students can come from any combat or combat support branch of the service, but priority is given to engineering, cavalry, and infantry soldiers. [1]. The course is in two Phases.

Phase I lasts 14 days and covers general subjects including medical, navigation, demolitions, air and water operations, mountaineering, and landmines and weapons used by enemy forces. Phase II is the remaining 14 days. It covers basic patrolling techniques and battle drills that emphasize leadership. The subjects include urban operations, breaching, patrol organization and movement, and reconnaissance, raid and ambush tactics. It concludes with a three-day situation training exercise, and five-day field training exercise. These missions are a 60/40 mix of engineer and infantry missions.

Leadership is emphasized throughout the SLC. During the course leader roles are rotated regularly and each student is evaluated at least twice on leadership. The results of the Sapper Leader Course are soldiers who are hardened combat engineers who are qualified to fight and lead on today’s battlefields. [2].

This is from Leatherneck.com
"Females are allowed in all engineer military occupational specialties, officer and enlisted. They are, however, restricted in assignment- currently no females are assigned to combat engineer battalions within the Marine Divisions.

I am the Engineer Occupational Field Sponsor at Headquarters, USMC."

This message has been edited. Last edited by: nateljen80,

Never happy, I only run on caffeine, alcohol and bitterness. Besides, did I not say that females were restricted in the combat engineer field??? You basically quoted what I had already said accept citing a magazine when I said it in plain terms.
I have worked with Army engineers and Marine engineers alike, I respect both although there is always a rivalry between us, it's just the nature of the beast. Engineers have their place and EOD has theirs.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SwissChEz82,

Theres no rivalry with me. I find it very immature and counterproductive. I've always had a great deal of respect for EOD having a somewhat basic experience of EOD ops being a sapper. It takes a special type to disarm by hand an enemy minefield. I can only immagine it's the same with an IED. I think both jobs are worthy of praise and admiration regardless of service.

I've known 2 sides of the rivalry, some friendly and some just plain hateful. A bit more extreme than what went on in the first couple pages of this post.

Does EOD have airborne units or units that specialize in certain infiltration techniques? I was down at MEPS and the job was open to me so i'm really intrested, seems like a fun job.

quote:

Originally posted by Aco275RGR:
Does EOD have airborne units or units that specialize in certain infiltration techniques? I was down at MEPS and the job was open to me so i'm really intrested, seems like a fun job.

Yes and no. No if you want to be regular army eod. Yes if you want to be a part of the "other" side of the house.

I think this thread is really amusing. The constant back and forth for 5 pages. Amazing. LOL!

If you have any questions pertaining to EOD just ask an EOD tech about his job. I am EOD, and don't really understand how my job is overglorified. I would appreciate ignorant statements about something you don't know about not thrown around. I have no problems with anyone or anything, just take my job extremely serious. "Initial Success or Total Failure"

I must say that comment by 'crabs wife 'is very insulting, an combat engineer is by part defination an infiltrator and is responsible for many different types of tasks. EOD is exactly what it is, military bomb squad and they are much more of an close knit than most any other units other than ,of course the SF community. EOD school I've heard is hard, I'd say if its what you want to do then go for it. Enginers deal with explosives and demolitions but we use them for breaching and infiltrationg, dismantling bombs and stuff is not really in our job description though there are some engineers that are currently trained to do so in order to reduce the reliance on EOD units in Iraq.

I was a combat engineer for a little over 2 years, put in a packet to EOD School last year and I graduate this thursday.

Its apples and oranges man. You'd have to be part of each of the communities to understand. But let me say that no one has an easy Job over seas. Combat or not combat doesn't matter these days. Everyone can get blown up by an IED. And the enemy does not seperate from MOS's.

quote:

Originally posted by tapmeout:
I was a combat engineer for a little over 2 years, put in a packet to EOD School last year and I graduate this thursday.

Its apples and oranges man. You'd have to be part of each of the communities to understand. But let me say that no one has an easy Job over seas. Combat or not combat doesn't matter these days. Everyone can get blown up by an IED. And the enemy does not seperate from MOS's.

Great post!

I have the utmost respect for EOD soldiers. Personally, I'd rather be a Sapper Engineer, But EOD isn't out of the question for me.

Well now, it seems the same old arguement still rears it's ugly head after years and years. I am an EOD Sergeant Major, I have 29 years in EOD on the 25th of this month. I have been there and done the from OC with the Sidewinders to being attached to the 9th EN, 11th EN, 30th EN, and the 82nd EN. I was a Demo instructor at Eglin AFB for four year.

Yes, Engineers clear obsticals on the battle field. An IED on an MSR is an obstical on the battle field. The secret that most people do not know is that EOD does Render Safe and Disposal. Render Safe is the process which we make a hazardous item safe for us (trained EOD technician to deal with)(collect intellengence, decontaminate chem or bio hazard, post blast, etc.) the Disposal part is to make it go away. (everything has a disposal....and the book states the best means of disposal is by detnotion.

I thank the Engineers that perform route clearance and deal with items that can be disposed of on site. I will stress that it is dangerous to assume that everything can be blown in place, IE chemical items or items that may be linked, thus a chain reaction may be caused.

The arguement as to which MOS is better is in the eye of the beholder. Both serve different functions, and yes at times the mission may seem to over lap. Both bring different skill sets to the fight.

I have met Explosive Ordnance Disposal technicians and Engieers that I would not give a pinch of panther **** for, on the other hand there are those who I would walk through the hottest corners of hell for.

Don't ever commit on who has the biggest set of stones till you have been in their boots.

Tony Pollygus
USA SGM

I dont wanna be no army sapper
A satchel mule and non electric capper
non electric capper...army sapper

I dont wanna be no combat engineer
rollin up the highways showin no fear
showin no fear...combat engineer

I just wanna be deep sea navy eod
and because i am all the chicks sure dig me
chicks all dig me...navy eod

Hooyah, sir! And really...when it comes down to it, isn't always about the chicks? hahaha