I'd like to start a petition for military.com to drop Oliver North's column from their opinion index. He was a marine that disgraced his uniform and his presence on this board is a slap in the face to the many good, hard working, honest soldiers that serve our armed forces and who read the items posted on this website. There are many men, former soldiers even, who would never be syndicated on this or any other board, whose actions or misconduct fall far short of treason, drug dealing or any of the cannon of sins that Oliver North comitted while wearing an officer's uniform in the supposed service of the United States Marine Corps. I, like David Hackworth, believe that former Col. North is a bad ambassador for this website, Military.com, and it is time that he is removed from this web board. The community of soldiers and their families who comprise this online community represent a board which celebrates the heroic actions of men and women in uniform, not the cowardly actions of criminal minded men who have subjugated justice in the past, and stand poised to do so again.
Oliver North may have dodged a prison sentence, but rewarding him with an outlet that reaches young and impressionable men and women who have enlisted to serve and honor this nation is unconscionable.
I urge all who share my opinion to mail the editor of Miltary.com at:

Military Advantage, Inc.
799 Market Street, Suite 700
San Francisco, CA 94103-2045

Call:
(415) 820-3434 (General information)

or email:
anne.dwane@military-inc.com

An excuse is not an apology, and an apology is not restitution.

Hey barefoot, are you asking us to engage in a democratic process? One that might upset the status quo on this site? A process that might give ollie the heave ho? But what of all the hypocrites that are harbored on their precious little website with all the glory of never being challeged as to their utterlly bizzare support for their criminal deity? The man is a coward and his face on fox gives me the willies every time I see him. But you do realize that a majority on this site still believe that Hussein and Osama were buddy-buddy? That's what were up against.
I will e-mail them immediately.

You know what amazes me about your side of the argument barefootman, the utter hypocrisy both of you show by this. It is laughable when I look back through other posts you have done here defending the right of people like Churchill yet claim that the voices of Oliver North should be silenced. Utter hypocrisy, I swear. So tell me barefootman whatever happened to the freedom of speech you so vehemently defend when people with your view point speak when others disagree but when it comes to the other side, the right should be silenced huh? (Shakes head in disgust) you both are pathetic, so it comes out what you truly believe and how far your beliefs stretch when it comes to the other side.

Freedom of speech for liberals but no freedom of speech for conservatives.

Hypocrites.

Sincerely, Josh

REMOVE HIM!!! REMOVE OLIVER NORTH.

God Rest Your Soul Hack.

Well, this ole' Marine stands by the side of LtCol North. If you didn't serve with this Marine, you haven't a clue as to what and why?

Semper Fi to him!

quote:

Originally posted by 5973565:
It is laughable when I look back through other posts you have done here defending the right of people like Churchill yet claim that the voices of Oliver North should be silenced. Whatever happened to the freedom of speech you so vehemently defend

First of all, I'm going to guess that you mean Ward Churchill, who I've never before written a single word about. I have never before defended him, but to my knowledge he is guilty of writing an essay, and nothing more. He was never convicted of offenses which involved treason (or sedition) or felonious drug dealing. And to my knowledge he does not now, nor has he ever had a column syndicated on this webpage. This can't be said for Oliver North. Would you ever dream of defending anybody besides Oliver North who was convicted for a capital offense?
On May 4, 1989, Oliver North was found guilty of three counts, including aiding and abetting obstruction of Congress, shredding and altering official documents, and accepting an illegal gratuity from Richard Secord.
Article 3 Section 3 of the U.S. Constitution reads:
"Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying war against them or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort."
I'd say supplying the enemy with arms and selling drugs to do so would qualify as "giving them aid", wouldn't you?
Far less has been categorized as treason in the past, though there hasn't been a case brought forth since 1949.
Name a single other columnist on this webpage who has been convicted of a crime against congress. There are none. Why? Because it would be inappropriate, but North has a salacious tabloid value, and has been included for that reason alone, not because he has any qualifications to comment on current events or political platforms. I think it's time that his free access to this board come to an end.
That is not the same thing as silencing him for his opinions.
There is a big difference between allowing someone to voice their opinion and giving them a platform from which to sound off.
My petition relates only to his removal from this board, on Military.com -it does not speak to his ability to be published anywhere else.

Why do you want a convicted felon to have a column on this board, anyways? Especially one who by his deeds disgraced his own and every other branch of the service? I really don't understand what benefit there is to any person in the armed forces to read anything written by a known criminal on a board for and by respected, unblemished military personnel and their families.
Oliver North enjoys the same right to free speech that all free men enjoy, but I am vehemently against that speech being compensated or given credence by association with a respected and supposedly non-profit board. His presence cheapens the value of debate here, and causes irreparable harm to the reputation of the board, the webpage, and the honest soldiers who read or benefit from it, for as long as his name is associated within.
He's still free to talk, but we are under no obligation to carry his column here. Roger Ebert writes a column, but its absence on this webpage could hardly be considered an infringement on his free speech.
In North's case, he's lucky he wasn't executed for crimes against this country, and if the person he was shielding wasn't president, he probably would have been.
Now THAT would be silence.

First off sorry about how long it took to get this reply posted up I got busy the last few weeks with editing stuff and lost track of time. Plus after you edit 90,000 words of your own writing you tend not to want to write anything out for a while. Ug as you sit watching tv or doing something else you always see text scrolling before your eyes.

Ok right of the bat, yep you were right Barefootman about never mentioning Ward Churchill before and I offer my apologies for that and the attack on you based on that. Normally I am better about doing the research, looking back at former posts done by people and reading up on what they said. I mistook you for someone else on the boards and hence my mistake and I do hope you accept that apology for that.

It came from two things though, mostly it is just seeing so many hypocritical statements by people not only on this board, or the double standards by people here, but also in the newspapers, media and just day to day life. I tends to get on ones nerves when you see it time and again. And I blew up rather then separating my emotions from it, lets just say that post came at a bad time for me.

You asked me personally why I stand behind someone like Oliver North. The answer is not really simple, but I will try and make it as clear as possible.

When I judge people I do not look at just one incident in their life, one mistake they made or one error of judgment they were involved with. I do not apply this belief to just one side of people, those that I might like or agree with, I apply it to everyone. The way I judge someone is by the whole of their life up to that point, weighing the good against the bad and make my decision after that. From liberal, to democrat to republican, to conservative. I look at the whole of the person and not just the shadow cast by their past or present.

If I viewed others like some here have, on just one incident, there would be very few to look up to in the world. Everyone has their faults, their misdeeds and their mistakes. I can either understand the mistakes they made, accept it and move on or I could be a very bitter hateful person speaking out against them on everything and just waste my time.

See the way I judge Oliver North is the same way I just President Bill Clinton. If I looked at President Clinton the same way you look at Oliver North I would have ample reason to loathe the guy, and I don’t. from the Somalia incident, to Rwanda and the slaughter that happened there, to the many ethics violations or hints at them to the affair and ******* in the white house. I would have enough just by those few things to hate the guy, but I don’t. I judge him by the whole of his actions and some of his good stuff out weighs in my view all the bad stuff he did while in the white house.

And believe me he did bring disgrace about the White House, for the longest time on the Military bases I was around he was nothing but the punch line. You can’t even begin to know how many “it is close but its no cigar” jokes I have heard because of him. many in the military looked down on him for that as a disgrace to the office.

To me I just can’t apply such a strict standard to anyone, call me foolish I suppose but I rather take someone for who they are as a whole and accept their mistakes then blindly think they are perfect or hate the person.

So I guess you have my answer for that, if you want any clarity feel free to point out where I didn’t make sense and with all due speed I will address that.

I just want to also correct you on something, about Ward Churchill. If it was just his speech I wouldn’t like the guy, but I wouldn’t call for his removal from the college as my current desire is. To me the guy is a fraud, plain and simple, and it isn’t because of that speech he gave. It is because of his plagiarism, the painting he said was his own was a copy, the same for a speech he said he wrote. It was a copy of some Canadian Professor’s. add into that the claim he is Native American and you got yourself a fraud. My wife is Native American and both my daughters are as well and I was the one who had to fight for their status and I know the process intimately well.

First you have to prove who your mother and father are. they have to be at least 50%
In order for the person to be just 25% blood and thus be eligible for status as a Native American. But you also have to prove their parents were 100% as well. then you have to be accepted by the tribe and once that happens you will get you status card.

This man has no record of ever receiving his status card, ever. What he got was a token honorary membership to the Cherokee nation(since then they have rescinded them), the same as President Clinton did. And believe me Clinton is no native American. I hope the guy is fired and shown as an academic fraud for what he has done. I take learning, knowledge and the college system seriously and for this guy to do what he has, lets put it this way I have looked at all he has done and my judgment of him is not at all favorable.

Last point I also want to make. Roger Ebert writes about movies and the critiques for them. his column wouldn’t belong on this board at all, it has nothing do with past or current military service. So it doesn’t belong here. Oliver North served and has the experiences to offer here. most if not all know about his involvement in the Iran Contra affair when they read his column. Like me many take that in account with his opinions, they know who they are listening to and weighing that within his opinion. That is why I think he should be here, people know of his past and are bright enough to take it into account. You might not be willing to believe that about people who disagree with you, just as I have seen blind stupidity and acceptance by people on the far right for everything conservative, I have seen just as many on the far left and even moderate left for the same thing.

quote:

Originally posted by goldenwings:
Well, this ole' Marine stands by the side of LtCol North. If you didn't serve with this Marine, you haven't a clue as to what and why?

Semper Fi to him!

When and where did you serve with him?

NY--During a part of my career.

So you want to remove Ollies column?

I bet you want Comrade Kerry or Hanoi Jane to start one.


I will use the above address to voice my SUPPORT for KEEPING Ollies column.

Semper Fi Ollie!!!!!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: e5l,

Semper Fi to LtCol Oliver North!

Just a couple of quick comments.

5973565 great post. Words we all should consider before going nuts on someone.

On LtCol. North: You certainly can call for his removal from mil.com. Just recognize that mil.com has the right to print his material, just as you have the right to call for his removal. The site belongs to Monster.com, not to any of us.

Second, recognize that Ollie North has the right to submit his material for publication. To date, this site has chosen to accept his work.

In my humble opinion, if you don't like Oliver North, or his opinions, argue against him. Prove to others that he is wrong by offering sound arguments. If you just can't stand him, don't read his stuff. Don't watch him on Fox. Hell, don't watch Fox! That's your right. It's his right to submit his work for print.

For the record. Oliver North is a retired Marine LtCol. There is nothing former or ex about him. His DD-214 lists him as "Honorably Retired", he receives somewhere in excess of 50% of his base pay, plus yearly cost of living increases, on a monthly basis. LtCol North USMC(RET) is also eligable to fly space-A on DOD aircraft flying out of CONUS, Tri-Care medical coverage for himself, his wife and any children under the age of 18 or 22. The later dependent on college enrollment. He also enjoys a number of other benefits that are too long to list here. He does so, because our system of justice overturned his conviction, and he met the criteria for military retirement. Those simply are facts.

If you wish to change any of the above, I think you have a couple of choices. First, write mil.com and monster, telling them that you will not use their services for as long as LtCol. North write for the site. Second, you can attempt to convince the legislative and executive branches of government to remove LtCol. North from the retired rolls, thus negating his pension and benefits.

I think Hell will freeze over before either of the above options will take place. Why? Because LtCol. North brings you to this site and you participate because he's here. That's what mil.com/monster want. Second, because the courts have alread rendered an opinion on his case, and I suspect the legal limits for another trial have been exceeded

There is a third option, which I list above.....Don't read his stuff and don't participate on the discussion boards. It might help some of you keep your blood pressure down.

I don't think that's going to happen either.

To all of you who have worn the uniform of our nation, please accept my belated "Happy Memorial Day" and heartfelt thanks for you service to our country. I hope the years to come are kind to you, for you above all others deserve it.

Semper Fi,
Boru

NOrth was a character in the Contra chapter; stingers to the Jihad, Phoenix to Iran. He showed his worth in producing unnumbered lower receivers for the M16 and money laundering in Arkansas(book COMPROMISED) The Bush dynasty needs him now in poppy land as liason with the warlords to warn them of US and Brit intelligence forays. The brits are pissed at the opium flow into England; I'm pissed at the Crack in the Black Community. The Bush Dynasty muzzled the Just Dept. back then and congress removed the muzzle in "96.(Anyone interested in the Intelligence Committee work to make it illegal for CIA to protect drug criminals from the Justice Dept?)
I'm not as worried at the young impressionables as the apparently more mature who ignore my plea to look at the past evidence of his work with organized crime.



Note that today the FBI is allowed to co-operate with the JAG:

Military.com article below: this is what the JAG is doing now, actually working with the FBI. The media will note a bit of this.

This was not done under BushI:


When Army CID arrested 7 helicopter pilots who carried coke out of the home of the Imperial Wizard of the KKK in Mississippi it was not shared with AP etc. It wasn't noted locally. In '98 the CIA admitted that agents weren't tasked with reporting to the Justice Dept. when working with drug criminals. Supposedly it was for the "brave freedom fighters"(Somoza's National Guard).
Five private airlines carrying non-lethal aid were caught. Gulf Air Transport in Laurel Mississippi has walked because it would just look too ugly that a klan town helped to put the Crack in the Black Community. The US Attorney for the Southern District of Mississippi wouldn't permit the FBI to investigate. He, George Philips was chosen "Drug Czar" by the present governor of Mississippi, friend of BushII.
CIA.Gov has only admitted that it continued to work with Contras after knowing they downed Nicarguan civil airliners and trafficked in coke. If you are interested and would like to see evidence--ask. BushI, Casey, North, Poindexter are the masterminds. HELP!


FBI Nabs Soldiers, Police In Drug Sting
Associated Press
May 13, 2005

TUCSON, Ariz. - Pretending to be cocaine traffickers, undercover FBI agents in Arizona snared 16 current and former law enforcement officers and U.S. soldiers who accepted more than $222,000 in bribes to help move the drugs past checkpoints, the government said Thursday.

Those charged include a former Immigration and Naturalization Service inspector, a former Army sergeant, a former federal prison guard, seven members of the Arizona Army National Guard, five members of the Arizona Department of Corrections and a police officer, officials said.

All 16 agreed to plead guilty to being part of a bribery and corruption conspiracy, said Noel Hillman, a Justice Department official.

Eleven defendants entered guilty pleas Thursday afternoon in U.S. District Court, acknowledging that they used their positions as uniformed public figures to assist in transporting cocaine for people they believed to be drug traffickers.

Two other defendants were scheduled to enter their pleas Friday with the remaining three on Monday, authorities said.



Those who pleaded guilty were freed on their own recognizance. Justice Department prosecutor John W. Scott said all probably would start out facing sentences of 34 to 36 months for a single conspiracy count, but that the sentences could be less depending on the defendants' cooperation. He said he would ask for an indefinite delay in sentencing.

HOW MUCH DOES A BLACK BOY GET FOR POSSESSION OF A BIT OF CRACK?
Posts: 160 | Registered:

Nobody 'makes' the black boy buy the crack.


also your little news report up there has nothing to do with Oliver North. He was not even mentioned.

Tim,

You and I have a lot in common. We are both Marines, I like to hunt, I hate to cut the grass and I've got a German Sheapard. Given that, please allow me to pass along an observation about our buddy John. He has a propensity to throw as much "garbage", and I use that term because of the public nature of the site, on the wall as he can-and then waites to see what sticks. When you ask him to provide solid evidence, you end up talking to the Mad Hatter in Wonderland.

John is either a deliberate or subliminal practitioner of a process called "Critical Theory". The purpose of Critical Theory is simply to criticize. Practitioners will attempt to confuse any discussion with a myriad of unrelated items to attempt to convince those who will listen that they are correct. They also repeat the same thing, over and over.....and over............and over again. When this fails, they attempt to win the discussion by yelling. That failed, they will attempt to discredit or shame their opponent. It is a technique that was developed by a group known as "The Frankfurt School". Put both of the above items into a search engine and you'll find endless material about it.

For instance, ever notice how ole John keeps mentioning the local Grand Wizard of the KKK. He attempts to tie it into everything he says. That's classic Frankfurt School Critical Theory. It has morphed into what we now call political correctness, which is nothing more than cultural Marxism. He'll take one look at this post and give me some "Shame!!!" garbage.

Marine, the best thing to do with this guy is to ignore him.....at least here. Once you know what it is that he's doing, it's really pretty funny.

Semper Fi,
Boru

As a formmer German citizen, who was allowed an American citiznship in 1960, (it took a while) The grant of citizenship came with a price, unwritten but in my soul I knew that I owed a debt to the United States of America, 6 years later I volunteered for duty with The Marine Corps. a four(4)year tour starting in 1967 and ending in 1970. During which time I spent 18 months in combat in Vietnam. My step-father had served a 1 year tour at the time I enlisted and I was the sole surviving son in my family. Not required to serve. I bring this out only for the purpose that of what I see and hear from people that were born to this great life in the U.S.
You pi** on everything that this country stands for, you hate everything that this country has done, will do and has been accused of doing. You have never served in any capacity to help this country, you just suck out everthing that you, our political people and other do-gooders want. But give nothing in return. If you are so dam* critical and you hate this country so bad, leave, move to anywhere you like and say and do the samething and see how long you live! Some of you have never left the Socialist Republic of San Francisco or the College scene. You don't appreciate what people have done to sacrafice in order for you to say the things you say. I WONDER HOW MANY DIE LEAVING THIS GREAT COUNTRY. I know people are dying every day to come to this country. How about you will you be willing to die to go to Cuba, China, Russia even Germany and you beloved France. GO GO, I would even be willing to pay a one way ticket, but you leave your passport here with me.

Semper Fi Ollie and God Bless Hack and a Good Night Chesty where ever you are.

After reading Ollie's article today 6/3/05, why should congress care about the troops suffering when the administration doesn't. Give 'em the numbers they need to do the job and the equipment to protect 'em. How about that Ollie?

I refuse to believe that the persons who want Col. North out really care about the military at all. they are the type of people who want no military what so ever. aren't these the ones who are always crying for freedom of speech?

Thanks Boru, coming from you that does mean a lot. I got a deal of respect for you on this board.

Werks, lets me ask you a few questions.

First what other conflict have we been involved in the IED’s, and suicide bombers have played a major role in the attacks upon our troops?

Second what other war have we been involved with that has had this much new technology in the form of computers and communications, new tactics and focus on the special forces operations and qui