Ok, when most people think of old tanks they think they are all worthless piles of crap, but are they really? We like to compare them with the Abrams, which is about as heavy as a king tiger or a J.Stalin tank of WW2, and we know what would win, so whats the real deal with tanks like the t-72 and t-64.
A Retired Marine Lt.Gen told me once about how the M1 was upgraded to use the 120mm because the original gun didnt have the capability to pierce the armor of the t-64, later developed into the t-80.
Some older tanks such as the IS series had larger than 120mm guns with extreme muzzle velocities, are there any you think might be threats to modern tanks? After all some of the tanks from the late 40's served until the early 90's with upgrades.
So whats the real deal? We used the patton series of tanks for several decades and upgraded the hell out of them, how do those match up to other designs?
I know there are so many more small important details, but Im not the tank expert so Ill let you guys bring up the good points for me.
Most of us only ever hear from historians who have never even been in a tank, so if youve got some first hand experience let it out!

The old Soviet tanks get rocked by our M1A1s, Even with the old 105. the penetration was more than enough to knock them out. I can't find the picture with 105 and 120 penetration, but trust me (please). Interesting side note: I found that if you search for 105 penetration (suprisingly, only with safe search on), you find tons of porn! Have fun.

WWII-era tanks can't compare, despite the upgrades. Asking to compare the IS series to M1A1s is a little silly.

The T80 just retained basic features of the T64. They are entirely different and more lethal. T90s are even more so. Don't worry, we still dominate.

hey king, along that same vein, which tank would be the biggest challenge to a abrams? i even talking alies(at the moment anyway) like germany, france(lol yeah right) and even britain. or israel? i hear the brits got a pretty good one, n the germans too.

You're right there, Sandidge. It is quite hard to say, but the Germans' Leopard II is a pretty formidable beast. It is very modern and shares the same 120mm gun the Abrams has. The Brits' Challenger II also has a 120 and excellent gunner's sighting systems. However, our M1A1s just recieved the FEP upgrade which includes a 50 power gunner/TC sight system. This greatly enhances our lethality, keeping our M1A1s the finest. With tanks, it all depends on the gun, sights, and crew.

On a side-note, I just feel like saying that if I could play around with any armored vehicle, it would be the BMP 3. Talk about a beast! it has a 100mm main gin, coax 30mm cannon and 7.62 machine gun. Further, it has a 9K116-3 Anti-Tank Guided Missile and two 7.62 hull-mounted machineguns. Probably lots of fun at the range!

Interesting

quote:

Originally posted by king_voodoo:
You're right there, Sandidge. It is quite hard to say, but the Germans' Leopard II is a pretty formidable beast. It is very modern and shares the same 120mm gun the Abrams has. The Brits' Challenger II also has a 120 and excellent gunner's sighting systems. However, our M1A1s just recieved the FEP upgrade which includes a 50 power gunner/TC sight system. This greatly enhances our lethality, keeping our M1A1s the finest. With tanks, it all depends on the gun, sights, and crew.

That new FEP sight is bada$$! They upgraded a couple of the tanks here with it along with with some of the other new mods.
I also hear there's a stab. system for the TC's coupala in the works along with a new TWS. Hopefully we'll get these upgrades on the ABV as well.

In response to Doggzilla's posting on 26 Dec 2007, This old S.O.B. was a tanker with 2nd Tanks at LeJeune for several years starting in 1958 (yes 1958 ancient history) and after a trip to Third Tanks at Camp Hansen, Okinawa (Not Okinawa, Japan at the time)(Camp Hansen was then a series of quonset huts and Kin Village as only a few Stand Bars. The only "Bar in town Was the "Last Chance" just outside the main gate at Hansen. Tanker Town was Ishikawa and if you weren't a tanker, stay out of Ishikawa. Anyway, before my age depleated brain cells get the best of me, I will make note of the fgact that the tank at Carley Co., 2nd Tanks was the "M-103" a 62 ton gas firse engine with an Allison CD 850 Cross Drive Transmission. The "BEAST" as we lovingly referred to her on the good days when we weren't replacing tortion bars (which would snap just sitting in the Tank Park)We had a crew of five(5) TC,(Me), a driver, a gunner, and two (2) loaders. Her main armament was a 120mm main gun with a rifled bore. The rounds consisted of the projectile and a separate charge in it's own casing. We fired the 1st first time at the Tank Gunnder Range over the Inland Waterway at something Point (name forgotten due to being a dinosauer) anyway, before I digress, they just built a new "glass enclosed range house/observation stand and were proud of it. (Notice I said "were") anyway, after testing the main guns on all the tanks, the Company Commander put all tanks on line for a mass firing at 2 old tank hulks and an old AMTRACK hull. When the whole company fired on the Company Commanders Command of "Fire"
Let me tell you folks, pure pleasure, The hulks across the Inland Waterway were just little pieces and the Range Officer was Screaming "Cease Fire". Yes, you guessed it, there wasn't a damned piece of glass in the tower.
A little Trivia from a former Marine Tanker and TC. You guys that are carrying on the tradition today. Watch your backs, godspeed, and remain safe. Remember,if maggots are trying to light your tank up with incindiaries over the engine compartment while on the march, before you scratch the back of the other tank with gunfire fron the M2 50 cal or it's replacement or the 30 cal or it's replacement, make sure the main gun switch is off. One old Gunny Sgt at 2nd Tanks will attest to that, someone in his own platoon scratched his back in Korea with a 90 mm round. He. (GySgt FARMER) survivedm two of his crew didn't.

Good Luck and "Semper Fi"

quote:

Originally posted by jailer_ret:
Remember,if maggots are trying to light your tank up with incindiaries over the engine compartment while on the march, before you scratch the back of the other tank with gunfire fron the M2 50 cal or it's replacement or the 30 cal or it's replacement, make sure the main gun switch is off.

All you tankers remember....DO NOT SCRATCH THE ABV's BACK! I don't care if its with the 240, 50, or 120 something WILL go boom and nothing good will come of it.


Thanks for the story Jailer, would've been hoot to see that!

Noted Gunny. I think I'm the only one still tankin' around these parts.

quote:

Originally posted by king_voodoo:
Noted Gunny. I think I'm the only one still tankin' around these parts.

Roger Voodoo, pass that little tidbit on to your buddies.

ABVGunns, is that because of the ABV's turret armor composition or because of externally-stored equiptment/systems?

quote:

Originally posted by king_voodoo:
ABVGunns, is that because of the ABV's turret armor composition or because of externally-stored equiptment/systems?

Because C-4 doesn't react well to bullets...especially the 120mm variety.

hat's pretty much what I thought. I really couldn't remember the name for your nifty C-4 chain/rocket contraption.

The MCLC? Mine Clearing Line Charge.

However on the ABV someone probably gaot paid 6 figures to rename it to the LDCS: Linear Demolition Charge System

I may not be a full on Tanker, but most of the tankers in the unit accepted me in their click since I was TC for their M-88 tow truck! lol.