quote:

It's always us against them. Not us against eachother, Pards!!

quote:

Originally posted by LettheHogsEat:
GreyWolfGhost, looks like you were a dozer tanker on the M60A1 with the M85. That is what our XO had as the Rise Passive. I was in the M60A1 Rise Passive with added reactive armor.

Here's a bit of history I found regarding our tanks in Desert Storm. This isn't my recollection or any of my Fellow Marines, but it will do.

'The M60A1 RISE (Passive) of the U.S. Marines saw limited action during Operation Desert Storm in 1991, opposing Iraqi armor which included the T-54/T-59, T-55, T-62, Type 69, and the T-72. The M60A1s were fitted with reactive add-on armor packages and supported the drive into Kuwait City where they were involved in a two day tank battle at the Kuwait airport with the loss of only one vehicle and no crew. They saw service with the United States Marine Corps.' wikipedia.

As for the rest of the Marine Tankers during Desert Storm, they all had M1A1's and did have contact with the enemy, as limited as it may have been. Those Iraqi cowards left their tanks behind and walked back home for the most part. As for the majority of the U.S. Military Tankers, the contact we had was long distance and easy kills. Basically it was target practice. Especially for the Marines who were learning how the M1A1 worked with the laser finder. We were used to thinking about our ranges and not depending upon a computer that did most the work for you like they do now. I still believe using our brains, rather than having to depend on a computer is more effective, but sometimes not as quick. Six of one, half dozen of the other.

Either way I look at it, Marine Tankers have an edge only because we are trained constantly to know every aspect of our tank and the tactics that no matter who has been incompasitated we can take over that job with no concerns. The TC can double as the gunner or the loader. The gunner can double as the gunner and the TC. The loader, well, the loader is the loader, but if needed, they can be the gunner, or TC, or driver. You know what, I am getting all mixed up now, but pretty much any Marine Tanker can replace any position without any questions. Where as there is that question whether or not an Army Tanker could achieve the same level of confidence in ability. IMHO.

But as you stated,

quote:

It's always us against them. Not us against eachother, Pards!!

quote:

Originally posted by greywolfghost:

quote:

Originally posted by LettheHogsEat:
GreyWolfGhost, looks like you were a dozer tanker on the M60A1 with the M85. That is what our XO had as the Rise Passive. I was in the M60A1 Rise Passive with added reactive armor.

Here's a bit of history I found regarding our tanks in Desert Storm. This isn't my recollection or any of my Fellow Marines, but it will do.

'The M60A1 RISE (Passive) of the U.S. Marines saw limited action during Operation Desert Storm in 1991, opposing Iraqi armor which included the T-54/T-59, T-55, T-62, Type 69, and the T-72. The M60A1s were fitted with reactive add-on armor packages and supported the drive into Kuwait City where they were involved in a two day tank battle at the Kuwait airport with the loss of only one vehicle and no crew. They saw service with the United States Marine Corps.' wikipedia.

As for the rest of the Marine Tankers during Desert Storm, they all had M1A1's and did have contact with the enemy, as limited as it may have been. Those Iraqi cowards left their tanks behind and walked back home for the most part. As for the majority of the U.S. Military Tankers, the contact we had was long distance and easy kills. Basically it was target practice. Especially for the Marines who were learning how the M1A1 worked with the laser finder. We were used to thinking about our ranges and not depending upon a computer that did most the work for you like they do now. I still believe using our brains, rather than having to depend on a computer is more effective, but sometimes not as quick. Six of one, half dozen of the other.

Either way I look at it, Marine Tankers have an edge only because we are trained constantly to know every aspect of our tank and the tactics that no matter who has been incompasitated we can take over that job with no concerns. The TC can double as the gunner or the loader. The gunner can double as the gunner and the TC. The loader, well, the loader is the loader, but if needed, they can be the gunner, or TC, or driver. You know what, I am getting all mixed up now, but pretty much any Marine Tanker can replace any position without any questions. Where as there is that question whether or not an Army Tanker could achieve the same level of confidence in ability. IMHO.

But as you stated,

quote:

It's always us against them. Not us against eachother, Pards!!

I was stationed in Germany 2 years (71-73) with alert points in the Fulda Gap near Bad Hershfeld. Our mission was basically to slow the Russians and East Germans down if they came through the wire (Iron Curtain). We were briefed that they had us outnumbered 10 to 1 with T-55 and T-62 tanks. We carried approximately 60 rounds of main gun 105MM ammo - a mix of SABOT and HEAT with about 10 HEP and a few WP. We were briefed to get to our rally points, which were basically bottlenecks through which tanks would have to come to get to Frankfurt and the Rhein and kill as many as possible until we were forced to fall back. Then it would be retrograde action clear to France, unless "Reforger" kicked in and started getting enough help from the states to stop them. If the reached France, or France came in on the side of the Russians, it would have gone nuclear - -

I stood up in one of these briefings, being the "newby" and asked, "What do we do for resupply of ammunition?"

The First Sergeant, a full-blood Blackfoot Indian with 2 Viet Nam tours, said, "If the Russians come through that wire, you won't live long enough to need resupply. Just consider yourself dead already, and take as many of the Bassturds with you as you can before they get you!" No one laughed, because it wasn't a joke. Because of short budgets caused by the Viet Nam War, we had little extra fuel or ammo in storage near at hand.

If the balloon went up, our families were supposed to get in POVs and head for rally points to race for France. The wives of the commanders were given charge of this and occasional rallies where done in concert with alerts. No one was told it was just an alert until they reached the rally ppoints, and they might start with phone call to all the orderly rooms at 0200. These would score the crap out of me, because I lived 7 clicks off post with my wife and baby. We would race to Post with all my gear and their quick carry bags, then I'd run for the barracks, arms room and motorpark while she would disappear into the night going to the housing area.

Then all our tanks, tracks and trucks would fly off the post and head for the Gap, not knowing if we would be dead in the next few ours and the damned Russians would be trying to track down my wife and kid.

My hope was that that dozer blade would keep me alive a little longer. And I guarantee you, I was going to kill a whole bunch of them some how before they got me - -

Well, none of the alerts turned out to be real, and we never had World War III. My oldest son was a Christian Missionary in East Germany when the Berlin Wall came down - -

But to this day, when a phone rings at night, it scares hell out me - -!

quote:

Originally posted by greywolfghost:

quote:

Originally posted by LettheHogsEat:
GreyWolfGhost, looks like you were a dozer tanker on the M60A1 with the M85. That is what our XO had as the Rise Passive. I was in the M60A1 Rise Passive with added reactive armor.

Here's a bit of history I found regarding our tanks in Desert Storm. This isn't my recollection or any of my Fellow Marines, but it will do.

'The M60A1 RISE (Passive) of the U.S. Marines saw limited action during Operation Desert Storm in 1991, opposing Iraqi armor which included the T-54/T-59, T-55, T-62, Type 69, and the T-72. The M60A1s were fitted with reactive add-on armor packages and supported the drive into Kuwait City where they were involved in a two day tank battle at the Kuwait airport with the loss of only one vehicle and no crew. They saw service with the United States Marine Corps.' wikipedia.

As for the rest of the Marine Tankers during Desert Storm, they all had M1A1's and did have contact with the enemy, as limited as it may have been. Those Iraqi cowards left their tanks behind and walked back home for the most part. As for the majority of the U.S. Military Tankers, the contact we had was long distance and easy kills. Basically it was target practice. Especially for the Marines who were learning how the M1A1 worked with the laser finder. We were used to thinking about our ranges and not depending upon a computer that did most the work for you like they do now. I still believe using our brains, rather than having to depend on a computer is more effective, but sometimes not as quick. Six of one, half dozen of the other.

Either way I look at it, Marine Tankers have an edge only because we are trained constantly to know every aspect of our tank and the tactics that no matter who has been incompasitated we can take over that job with no concerns. The TC can double as the gunner or the loader. The gunner can double as the gunner and the TC. The loader, well, the loader is the loader, but if needed, they can be the gunner, or TC, or driver. You know what, I am getting all mixed up now, but pretty much any Marine Tanker can replace any position without any questions. Where as there is that question whether or not an Army Tanker could achieve the same level of confidence in ability. IMHO.

But as you stated,

quote:

It's always us against them. Not us against eachother, Pards!!

I was stationed in Germany 2 years (71-73) with alert points in the Fulda Gap near Bad Hershfeld. Our mission was basically to slow the Russians and East Germans down if they came through the wire (Iron Curtain). We were briefed that they had us outnumbered 10 to 1 with T-55 and T-62 tanks. We carried approximately 60 rounds of main gun 105MM ammo - a mix of SABOT and HEAT with about 10 HEP and a few WP. We were briefed to get to our rally points, which were basically bottlenecks through which tanks would have to come to get to Frankfurt and the Rhein and kill as many as possible until we were forced to fall back. Then it would be retrograde action clear to France, unless "Reforger" kicked in and started getting enough help from the states to stop them. If they reached France, or France came in on the side of the Russians, it would have gone nuclear - -

I stood up in one of these briefings, being the "newby" and asked, "What do we do for resupply of ammunition?"

The First Sergeant, a full-blood Blackfoot Indian with 2 Viet Nam tours, said, "If the Russians come through that wire, you won't live long enough to need resupply. Just consider yourself dead already, and take as many of the Bassturds with you as you can before they get you!" No one laughed, because it wasn't a joke. Because of short budgets caused by the Viet Nam War, we had little extra fuel or ammo in storage near at hand.

If the balloon went up, our families were supposed to get in POVs and head for rally points and join up for the race for France. The wives of the commanders were given charge of this and occasional rallies where done in concert with alerts. No one was told it was just an alert until they reached the rally points, and they might start with a phone call to all the orderly rooms at 0200. The CQ would sound the alarm, then call everyone off post. These calls would scare the crap out of me, because I lived 7 clicks off post with my wife and baby. We had to be in the motorpool 15 minutes after receiving the call. We would race to Post with all my gear and their quick carry bags, then I'd run for the barracks, arms room and motorpark while she would disappear into the night going to the housing area.

Then all our tanks, tracks and trucks would fly off the post and head for the Gap in the dark using blackout drive and infrared, not knowing if we would be dead in the next few hours and the damned Russians would be trying to track down my wife and kid.

My hope was that that dozer blade would keep me alive a little longer. And I guarantee you, I was going to kill a whole bunch of them some how before they got me - -

Well, none of the alerts turned out to be real, and we never had World War III. My oldest son (the baby then) was a Christian Missionary in East Germany when the Berlin Wall came down - -

But to this day, when a phone rings at night, it scares hell out me - -!

quote:

Originally posted by Rigger51:

So I take it you guys didn't have much faith in the Army or the Air Forces Close Air Support?

quote:

Originally posted by greywolfghost:
I don't see your question about the Fulda Gap, but is a low-lying area between the towns of Fulda and Bad Hersfeld Germany which had been a natural invasion route through Germany towards France for centuries. Frankfurt (Frank ford) is the best place to cross the Rhein, so it is certain to be the focus of any major Trans-European invasion. This map shows some of it. I'll try to find a better --

quote:

Originally posted by Rigger51:

quote:

Originally posted by greywolfghost:
I don't see your question about the Fulda Gap, but is a low-lying area between the towns of Fulda and Bad Hersfeld Germany which had been a natural invasion route through Germany towards France for centuries. Frankfurt (Frank ford) is the best place to cross the Rhein, so it is certain to be the focus of any major Trans-European invasion. This map shows some of it. I'll try to find a better --

Oh, the question about the Gap was the faith in the Close Air support. So is the Fald Gap the only place the Russians could punch through. You know like the Pas de Calais at D-Day. The Falda Gap would be the obvious route but the actual invation would actually go through somewhere else like Normandy did on Day? if you understand my new question.