if Bhutto is killed, it will be an inside job. the ISI would love to see her dead. she should hire a PMC, like Blackwater-no joke-to protect her. they NEVER lost a client, and thier agressive tactics are just wats needed in that jungle. P-stan's security cannot be trusted.

Since Gen. Musharraff has ceded some of the NWFP to the T-ban, it is not part of p-stan anymore. That makes it a hostile that sends men and arms into a-stan to destabilize it and kill US troops. Do we not have the right to strike? To cross the border? I think so. Wat has the general done but accept BILLIONS to hold his end, but yet he surrenders to our enemy? If you say, "it will get worse, no... well, how much worse than now? He will be killed, or deposed. We do NOT need permission. I wonder how the Joint Chiefs think? Or CENTCOM? JSOC? There will be no stable a-stan with an enemy gov. next door.

quote:

Originally posted by RHYNO506:
the PAK'S are playing both sides of the fence. if DUBYA says he would send troops in, then do it! im sure there are camps running full swing on that border. LETS KILL THEM ALL. AIR, PARATROOPERS, OR AIR ASSAULT...JUST KILL THESE PIGS. PAKISTAN IS 2 FACED.

The Pak's are trying as hard as they can to stay alive.

Musharraf lost a lot of popular support by backing the GWOT, and he did it with an express agreement that any US incursions into Pakistan should be coordinated with and agreed upon by Musharraf. So far the US have violated that agreement TWICE, both times killing several civilians and no terrorists, and also both times without coordinating with Musharraf in any way. That have weakened Musharraf further, contributing to the current troubles in Pakistan.

regards JakobA

quote:

Originally posted by JakobA_DK:

quote:

Originally posted by RHYNO506:
the PAK'S are playing both sides of the fence. if DUBYA says he would send troops in, then do it! im sure there are camps running full swing on that border. LETS KILL THEM ALL. AIR, PARATROOPERS, OR AIR ASSAULT...JUST KILL THESE PIGS. PAKISTAN IS 2 FACED.

The Pak's are trying as hard as they can to stay alive.

Musharraf lost a lot of popular support by backing the GWOT, and he did it with an express agreement that any US incursions into Pakistan should be coordinated with and agreed upon by Musharraf. So far the US have violated that agreement TWICE, both times killing several civilians and no terrorists, and also both times without coordinating with Musharraf in any way. That have weakened Musharraf further, contributing to the current troubles in Pakistan.

regards JakobA

Jakob, sometimes i think with my heart and not my head. its a really frustrating situation. there will be no stable a-stan until those borders are made safe. Mush. has ceded these border territories to the t-ban and AQ. Remember, he made a deal with the tribes that backfired. Can you say, legally, that these NWFP are still governed by p-stan? I don't think so. Its being governed by our mortal enemies. We give Mush. BILLIONS every year for his help, and wat have we got in return? The t-ban and AQ have it better now than before. If Bhutto lives, and can at least share power, we will LEGALLY be able to cross that border. If she sticks to her word. That's why they [t-ban,aq] want her dead. You and I are not there, but if you and i were, would we like it if we knew that the enemy was acting with impunity, making our lives miserable? If there is intel. on a target, watever, you act on it, but don't have to admit it. You think there are any rules in this war? If there are i can't think of any. Politic correctness is done. Its a fight to the death. Mush. and Co. can't be trusted, so would you tip them off? Regards, R.

why do we keep shelling out money to this regime? this is like throwing money down the toilet. Now Bhutto is dead. When will the t-ban and AQ camps in the NWFP be destroyed? Musharraff ceded these areas to a different government. It don't even belong to p-stan anymore.

We should do whatever we think we need to do in order to get bin ladin and his buddies, and just act like we never heard anything about it.
after all in 5 years they have not been able to find bin ladin, let them try to prove it was us and not the tb.

I can said: For USA excellent to have so President like Bush. Real military man, very clever soldier.
President Pakistan's said 01/26/08y: our agents of Pakistan made ruined USSR. It's he said. then area USA of course better than area Russia and USSR. Why was in to ruined USSR for Pakistan's? As funny as possible! For Pakistan's need was snow? then for USA one way: destroy,crush whole that is in Iran and Pakistan. Or they this reptiles pulling to death USA. Need now using tactics nuclear weapons.

The biggest threat to our country and the free world is G.W.Bush,and we are at risk of war not only with Pakistan,but also other countries.Bush gave billions of dollars to Pakistan because he trusted his "new best friend",and now Pakistan is making threats toward us.When a person tells me "God talked to me",I get scared!Bush does not want Osama cought,and he has done more to destroy the U.S. than any of our enemies could have ever done.Bush, Rice and Cheney should have been removed from office long ago> hope whomever replases him will bring up charges against him as soon as he leaves office.The rest of the world know that Bush is our weak link,and can be controlled.We have got to survive for another few months until a new president takes over.We cannot even protect our own borders because our military is stretched too thin,and Bush still wants to start another war.Bush is using scare tactics to keep the American people in line.I still wonder about 9/11.I sure smell a big rat on that issue.Oh well,we will never know the truth.Our relationship with Pakistan is going sour,and will only get worse if we quit giving them money,and that my friends is what is better known as blackmail.A three trillion dollar budget?Get real Mr. President!

Pervez, not playing both sides, what else you think he is doing, and has to..

Why you think the USMC wants a space plane, so they do not have to kiss the Pak and like, to fly over them.. Why? Cause there is elements in Mr.Pervez cabibent who are or was pro-Osama.. By the time we got clearance to fly over Pak airspace, he was long gone..

So the space plane, goes up 50 miles or so, into international airspace, and then can fly "over" and then down into Afghanistan or where ever and do a real assault and not just some assault after the politicians get done talking, sharing things, bribery and other fun (bribery as in arms, weapons, money/aid and like to Pak..).

Mike
Alaska

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmoshier:
The biggest threat to our country and the free world is G.W.Bush,and we are at risk of war not only with Pakistan,but also other countries.Bush gave billions of dollars to Pakistan because he trusted his "new best friend",and now Pakistan is making threats toward us.When a person tells me "God talked to me",I get scared!Bush does not want Osama cought,and he has done more to destroy the U.S. than any of our enemies could have ever done.Bush, Rice and Cheney should have been removed from office long ago> hope whomever replases him will bring up charges against him as soon as he leaves office.The rest of the world know that Bush is our weak link,and can be controlled.We have got to survive for another few months until a new president takes over.We cannot even protect our own borders because our military is stretched too thin,and Bush still wants to start another war.Bush is using scare tactics to keep the American people in line.I still wonder about 9/11.I sure smell a big rat on that issue.Oh well,we will never know the truth.Our relationship with Pakistan is going sour,and will only get worse if we quit giving them money,and that my friends is what is better known as blackmail.A three trillion dollar budget?Get real Mr. President!

I found an avatar for you...

Pentagon Awards Contracts for Pakistani F-16s

(Source: US Department of Defense; issued April 18, 2008)


-- Lockheed Martin Corporation, Lockheed Martin Aeronautics of Fort Worth, Texas, is being awarded a modified contract for $31,480,000.
This action will the procurement of non-recurring engineering activity for aircraft production program changes at a not-to-exceed price of $31,480,000 for the Peace Drive I (Pakistan) program for foreign military sales F-16 Block 52M aircraft.
At this time $15,740,000 has been obligated.
Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio, is the contracting activity (FA8615-07-C-6031, P00005).


-- Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Co., of Fort Worth, Texas, is being awarded a modified firm fixed price contract for $27,000,000.
This action will provide the procurement of non-recurring engineering activity for developmental support equipment and country standard technical order at a not-to-exceed price of 27,000,000 for the peace Drive I (Pakistan) Program for foreign military sales F-16 Block 52M aircraft.
At this time $13,500,000 has been obligated.
Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio, is the contracting activity (FA8615-07-C-6031, P00004).

-ends-

Wat a f-ing joke...another "good" move by this Administration. Wat happens when the decision has to be made to destroy the 30 or so camps running full swing in W-stan? Karzai railed against the presence of these camps on MSN. We would not be bombing targets in A-stan, killing innocents, while the REAL problem is right next door. The P-stani's signed away those areas, now a hostile government is in power there. Just like his "friend" Vladimir, he must of looked into Pervez' eyes and saw the same thing...hardy har har!!!! Wow...

This guy Gilani is really going belly up to the islamic militant psychotics. The T-ban have it sweet now, with P-stan's help, of course. They can train, move fighters back and forth over the border, and the US can't do anything about it. I wonder why the US military doesn't let the p-stani's in on thier ops? Maybe it goes from our mouths right to t-ban/Aq's ear? You think? I NEVER trusted them. If A-stan is to be stable, sooner or later those 30 or so camps will need to be bombed to dust, troops will have to be put on the ground to capture, kill HVT's, engage the militants where they sleep. Or our troops will be there indefinitely.

Well, its a done deal, the Bush Ad. is "selling" a number of F-16's to these 2 faced slimy swine. These are being given, not sold, since we were fleeced for over $10BILLION. Wat a joke. I guess these F-16's will defend FATA's airspace when we've had enough of P-stani's treating us like jerk-*ffs and bomb the camps and compounds and T-ban gov. buildings to dust. W-stan is governed by the t-ban. Why are we giving the p-stani's these planes!? We must be stupid

quote:

Why are we giving the p-stani's these planes!? We must be stupid

To gain more control over them...(spares, training, weapons, etc)...so eventually they will try harder at eliminating those camps.

quote:

Originally posted by Sgt_Schlappy:

quote:

Why are we giving the p-stani's these planes!? We must be stupid

To gain more control over them...(spares, training, weapons, etc)...so eventually they will try harder at eliminating those camps.

Sarge, I hope ur right. It looks as if the P-stani's are giving in to them. These people do not honor agreements, they take advantage of them. I hope ur right.

quote:

It looks as if the P-stani's are giving in to them.

RAND: Pakistan Govt Groups Aid Taliban

June 10, 2008
Agence France-Presse

Members of Pakistan's intelligence services and its paramilitaries are supporting Taliban insurgents who enter Afghanistan to attack U.S. and NATO forces, a U.S. think-tank said in a report released June 9.

The study by the RAND corporation, funded by the Department of Defense, finds that if Taliban bases in Pakistan are not eliminated, the forces supporting the government of Afghan President Hamid Karzai "will face crippling long-term consequences in their effort to stabilize and rebuild Afghanistan."

The study, titled "Counterinsurgency in Afghanistan," says that Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate and paramilitary Frontier Corps "have failed to root out Afghan insurgent groups based in Pakistan and, in some cases, individuals from these Pakistani organizations have provided direct assistance to such groups as the Taliban and Haqqani network."


----------

Well, not like we didn't already know this...but it sure looks like we should maybe focus more on taking out the confused elements of Paki Intel Services, the ones who don't seem realize what side their bread is buttered.

I say do your freaking job Pakis and crush the fanatics who hide on your soil and this type of incident wouldn't have to happen!!!



Pakistan condemns "cowardly" U.S. attack; 11 dead

LINK

By Kamran Haider, Reuters


ISLAMABAD — Pakistan said on Wednesday an "unprovoked and cowardly" air strike by U.S. forces had killed 11 Pakistani soldiers on its border with Afghanistan and undermined the basis of security cooperation.

The soldiers were killed at a border post in the Mohmand region, opposite Afghanistan's Kunar province, late on Tuesday as U.S. coalition forces in Afghanistan battled militants attacking from Pakistan, a Pakistani security official said.

The U.S. military said in a statement issued on Wednesday that it had coordinated the artillery and air strike with Pakistan, but was investigating further.

The incident came as frustration is rising in Kabul and among Western forces in Afghanistan over Pakistani efforts to negotiate pacts to end militant violence on its side of the border. NATO says such deals lead to more violence in Afghanistan.

In its strongest criticism of the U.S. military since joining the U.S.-led campaign against terrorism, the Pakistani military condemned the killing of the 11 paramilitary soldiers, including an officer. If confirmed, it would be the most Pakistani soldiers ever killed in an attack by U.S. forces.

The attack "hit at the very basis of cooperation and sacrifice with which Pakistani soldiers are supporting the coalition in the war against terror," the military said.

"Such acts of aggression do not serve the common cause of fighting terrorism," it said in a statement.

Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani also condemned the attack.

"We will take a stand for sovereignty, integrity and self-respect and we will not allow our soil (to be attacked)," he told parliament.

Earlier, a Pakistani security official said the soldiers were killed after militants had launched an attack into Afghanistan.

"The militants launched a cross-border attack into Afghanistan ... our soldiers were killed in a counter-offensive by forces in Afghanistan," said the official, who declined to be identified.

In response, the U.S. military said the counter-offensive had been aimed at anti-Afghan militants and Pakistan had been told in advance.

"Shortly after the attack began, coalition forces informed the Pakistan army that they were being engaged by anti-Afghan forces in a wooded area near the Gorparai checkpoint," the statement said.

"At that same time, an unmanned aerial system also identified anti-Afghan forces firing at coalition forces. In self-defense, coalition forces fired artillery rounds at the militants."

It said the operation "had been previously coordinated with Pakistan."

SUSPICION

A spokesman for the Pakistani Taliban said they attacked U.S. and Afghan forces as they were setting up a position on the Pakistan side of the border, and eight Taliban were killed and nine wounded in subsequent U.S. bombing.

The militant spokesman, Maulvi Omar, said by telephone he had heard that U.S. aircraft had also bombed a nearby Pakistani post, while the Taliban had captured seven Afghan troops and shot down a helicopter.

Many al Qaeda and Taliban militants took refuge on the Pakistani side of the border after U.S.-led forces ousted the Taliban in Afghanistan in 2001.

A new Pakistani government has been negotiating with elders of ethnic Pashtun tribes to get them to press the militants to give up a campaign of violence in Pakistan in which hundreds of people have been killed over the past year.

The government, which came to power after supporters of staunch U.S. ally President Pervez Musharraf were defeated in a February election, is led by the party of former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, killed in a suicide attack in December.

Afghanistan and its Western allies say peace pacts in Pakistan's border regions enable militants to regroup and step up cross-border attacks from Pakistani sanctuaries.

Pakistan supported the Taliban until the September 11, 2001, attacks on the United States, when it threw its support behind the U.S.-led campaign against terrorism.

Despite that, Pakistan has been unable to shake off suspicion that elements within its security forces help the Taliban, or at least turn a blind eye as the militants organize their insurgency from Pakistan.

Pakistan denies the accusations, saying it has lost about 1,000 soldiers battling militants in border areas that have never come under the control of any government.

The RAND report is just confirming wat many have suspected all along. The border guards are helping them cross, now they made the mistake of getting into a gunfight with the wrong group. They got pulverized. They deserve it-and much more. When those "safe havens" that p-stan gladly supplies are bombed to dust, maybe then the cross border crap will stop. These people are NOT our friends. Parts of this gov. are in bed with the t-ban/AQ. The p-stani's sponsored the t-ban, why would they compltely turn thier backs? Better make plans to move watever logistic ops out of p-stan, this is wats needed. They won't stop it, so we should. 30+ camps in the tribal areas, that swine Mehsud thumbing his nose at us. Forget that "sovereignty" bulls*it, they only use it when it suites them. Those 11 or so caskets can turn into 11,000 quick if and when the US decides to strike. Stay out the way hadji. Way to go 101st!!

Sarge ought to run for President---at least we'd get the facts right. Have always been leary of the PAKS as all it would take would be a goon squad to take out the leadership of the PAKS and the powers to be will become buds with the Talles and every other bad "A" group over there. You couple the fact that we're hated in the middle east save Israel and the coin flip that Obama has a chance on becoming President, which would be a total disaster and I don't have to list the dozen or so reasons, I get to wonder what will happen to this country. The politicians have screwed up most of it and the lawyers the rest, not counting the tree huggers, our need for home grown oil and the left wingers preventing it. We have China drilling 60 miles off our coast---BUT, this country has had tough times before and I hope we can weather the next 4+ years. Guess I'm in one of my fed up moods, but we've got big, big problems.