Our European allies have rarely been dependable except for Brits. The history of Britian and Europe show a long history of warfare between the Isles and the mainland. Even today the Brits are not EU mainstays. Ultimately, the Brits the US and Canada, Mexico will be united in US of North America, or the Brits will fold into the EU.

Due to energy resources and cost of trade, defense and agricultureal interests will pull the nations together due to proximity.

Russia may even slide west and join us? via an Alaskan landbridge. A good deal has to happen for us to continue on this same path. Imagination and old alliances and friendships will help the process.

oh please lol come on, Britain, UK, has been in the EU since I believe around 1974, UK will never leave the EU and forget the fantasy realm of the north atlantic union.

To one poster RHUL i believe. EU doesnt agree with force in Iraq, force only creates more force. USA has more of a reason to fight because OF 9/11 where as EU has hardly been attakced accept a few bombs in the london underground. Yeh sure 193 billion euros is correct as opposed to only around 400 billions euros by USA, 193 billion euros is TINY for the EU, if we wanted we could double that but the public of the EUY would rather have a lesser work life style, EU as it stands together has a 14 trillion dollar economy, of course we could get the same or pass the military spending of the USA, easily..........but we wont, simple as so stop screaming and get on with it......

if your a superpower u dont need other countries help right? your military wise capable on ur own n thats the truth so quit whining n do it urself EU isnt interested as u can clearly see.

p.s UK will remain an EU state, 15 years from now it will rely on more natural sources from mainland europe to depend on, cutting away isnt gonna do anyway good.

UK, EU.

we ain't whining, just honor ur NATO COMMITMENTS. Article 5; an attack on 1 member is an attack on the whole of NATO. now that the Soviet Union has collapsed, you don't need the U.S. anymore. i can only hope that ur lenient immigration policies will flood ur countries with moslems and drain ur "plentiful" resources. Germany is the worst, then France...and the U.K. gives thier Soldiers no credit and are looked down on. you euro-bastards, next time we won't help. if you believe the Russians are no threat, ur wrong. i hope ur homogenous countries are contaminated by moslem blood. ur cultures and beliefs attacked by a people who want to bring down the west. soon, they will outnumber you, and they will vote for thier own. or they will riot and you will be fighting a war in ur own neighborhoods. you uppity euro-*****'s. go f ur mother!

quote:

i can only hope that ur lenient immigration policies will flood ur countries with moslems and drain ur "plentiful" resources

You mean like your immigration policies? RHYNO, there are so many things that could be said about your post, but I don´t want to stoop to your level

well FANRIK, the truth hurts don't it? if ur German you should feel twice the shame for shirking ur NATO commitments. go and get fit for ur burqa, you will need it

I guess you didn´t see my pic, cause if you did you would know where I´m from... But maybe you don´t know that flag, so do your homework and look it up!

i knew you were being smart and was popping off. at first didn't know you were a woman either. so that ought to tell ya hon i don't give a rats azz wat you think of me. enlist in GERMANY'S "ARMY" they could use more good women..

yeah LT, remember to get fit for ur burqa...

Oh, RHYNO, I don´t think anything of you, because I don´t know you. Though I´m sure that I could teach you a thing or two about the world...

LT, i bet you could....

quote:

i knew you were being smart and was popping off. at first didn't know you were a woman either. so that ought to tell ya hon i don't give a rats azz wat you think of me. enlist in GERMANY'S "ARMY" they could use more good women..

Just have to ask you something, what does me being a woman have to do with anything?

LT, can we just agree to disagree? and that will be it? how did this start anyway? coz i called the euros cowards? article 5 NATO treaty.."an attack on 1 is an attack on all" there is no getting around they are NOT honoring thier commitments. and thats that. ok? if you disagree with me again, iam sure you will let me know..

RHYNO, are you tired of me already, lol... It wasn´t so much about your opinion, more of the way you expressed it. Just want you to understand that Europe is not ONE country, but consists of many different states, all with different political agendas. So saying that "Euros" are cowards kinda struck me weird, since we´re not all the same. (But I´ll let you in on a little secret, I too think some are cowards, lol)

roger that LT..

if NATO fails in A-stan, it should be dissolved. at the very least the U.S. should pull out. if this mission does fail, i would never sign a mutual defense treaty with members who would not fight. U.K., Canada, Dutch, Australia, Poland, yes. all others, go to hell.

Sounds like they're having some success...


Scores of Taliban Killed in Heavy Fighting

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SANGIN VALLEY, Afghanistan - British troops on Monday pushed into a Taliban stronghold awash with opium poppies, drawing mortar and machine-gun fire, in the latest NATO drive to help the government take control of southern Afghanistan.

As Operation Silicon got under way, the U.S. military reported killing 136 rebels during three days of clashes in the once-stable west, the deadliest fighting in the country since January.

The operation in the southern province of Helmand and the bloodshed in the western province of Herat show how Taliban militants have been able to regroup in the five years since a U.S.-led invasion drove them from power.

But it also shows how the growing number of foreign troops and Western-trained Afghan forces are confronting the militants in their rural heartlands.

The British soldiers quickly came under fire as they filtered among the mud-walled compounds and deep irrigation ditches of the militant-held lower Sangin Valley in Helmand. An Associated Press reporter saw the troops respond with artillery and fire from helicopter gunships.

There were no immediate reports of casualties in what NATO said was the latest installment of Operation Achilles, its biggest-ever anti-Taliban maneuver, which began in March.

However, the separate U.S.-led coalition forces said they killed 87 militants during a 14-hour engagement, including airstrikes on Taliban positions, in the Zerkoh Valley of Herat province on Sunday.

Another 49 suspected Taliban were killed two days earlier by a combination of gunfire and an airstrike, it said. One U.S. soldier also died.

The casualty figures could not be independently confirmed, although police said "a large number of people" had died in the fighting.

The bloodshed enraged locals. About 500 people gathered in front of the police station and government headquarters in the nearby town of Shindand on Monday, claiming the dead were civilians and chanting, "The Americans are killing us. We are innocent!" said district police chief Gen. Gul Aqa.

Some of the protesters were armed and opened fire on the government offices, breaking windows, before the crowd dispersed.

The fighting appeared to be the bloodiest in the west since the ouster of the Taliban regime in late 2001. It was also the deadliest nationwide since NATO said it killed about 150 suspected Taliban crossing from Pakistan in January.

Nearly 1,300 people, mostly militants, have died in violence so far this year, according to an AP count, based on figures from Western and Afghan officials.

Alliance commanders say it is vital to secure Helmand, Afghanistan's most volatile province, where a lack of local government, established Taliban sympathies and record opium production have hardened resistance to outsiders.

The Sangin effort involves more than 3,000 troops - 1,100 British soldiers, 600 Americans and others from the Netherlands, Denmark, Estonia and Canada, as well as more than 1,000 Afghan soldiers, officials said.

Before dawn, a column of armored vehicles brought several hundred British soldiers to the Sangin Valley, near the town of Gereshk and Afghanistan's strategic ring road that links the cities of Kandahar and Herat.

Some of the soldiers fanned out on foot, drawing regular fire from militants armed with mortars, rocket-propelled grenades and machine guns. Others, accompanied by an AP reporter, inched through the overlooking hills in armored vehicles.

British troops responded with mortars and artillery, and Apache helicopters aimed several short bursts of fire at unidentified targets on the ground.

There were occasional explosions and plumes of smoke as the soldiers moved between the mud-walled compounds. They covered about five kilometers (three miles) during the first 12 hours of the operation.

A NATO statement said the operation "has already successfully destroyed several positions used by the Taliban extremists to launch harassing attacks."

It provided few other details.

NATO officials say they are trying to eliminate die-hard Taliban guerrillas in order to keep the militants on the defensive.

Even before Operation Silicon, Afghan troops and U.S. special forces had killed more than 150 suspected Taliban and foreign fighters in the Sangin area in the past three weeks, the coalition said in a statement Monday.

The hope is the fighting will pave the way for the Afghan army to set up patrol bases to secure the valley and allow badly needed aid work to begin.

Achilles, for instance, aims to oust the Taliban from around the Kajaki dam - just north of Sangin - so that multimillion-dollar repairs can go ahead and the dam can supply electricity to some 2 million people.

The troops are also turning a blind eye to the poppy crop, which supplies most of the world's opium and heroin, for fear of antagonizing the many farmers who depend on it.

Aware of how civilian casualties also sap Afghan goodwill, alliance aircraft have dropped leaflets and broadcast advertisements on local radio stations, calling on Sangin residents to eject the Taliban or risk attacks on their homes.

"Everyone there wanting to fight will be a determined fighter, since the message that we are coming has gone out," said Maj. Mick Aston, one of the British officers involved.

***RHYNO*** - I think you will find this news of interest...



NATO, Pakistan pledge new anti-Taliban efforts

Agence France-Presse | May 9, 2007
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NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer and President Pervez Musharraf agreed on Tuesday to strengthen security along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border to contain the Taliban insurgency.

Scheffer told a joint press conference with Pakistan Foreign Minister Khurshid Kasuri that his two-hour meeting with Musharraf focused on measures to secure the border.

"This was an important element in my discussions with President Musharraf: that ... every effort, every investment should be made to see that the porous border is adequately under surveillance and adequately under control," Scheffer said.

The NATO chief underlined that military action alone was not the solution to Afghanistan's insurgency problems, despite the presence of 37,000 NATO forces.

"It is my strong opinion that the final answer in Afghanistan will not be a military one and cannot be a military one. The final answer in Afghanistan is called reconstruction, development and nation-building."

Kasuri said Pakistan had made huge efforts to enhance stability in the border region.

"Pakistan has deployed twice as many troops and suffered thrice as many casualties as the ISAF (International Security Assistance Force) forces in Afghanistan," he said.

He said that Pakistan had increased the number of troops and military posts on the rugged border to check cross-border movement of militants.

"Previously we had 80,000 soldiers, but now with the movement of some more troops it's reached 90,000."

"The onus for border control cannot be placed on Pakistan alone. We expect a matching response from Afghanistan as each side must play its due role to combat the menace of terrorism," he added.

Scheffer, who arrived here on Monday, also met Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz.

Aziz told the visiting official that Pakistan had started "selective fencing of our side of the border to prevent illegal movement on the border."

Afghanistan has opposed the fencing, saying that it would divide families on both sides of the border.

Official sources said better coordination between Pakistan and Afghanistan also came under discussion during talks with Musharraf in the context of mutual mistrust between the two neighbours over cross-border infiltration.

The visit comes after Musharraf and Afghan President Hamid Karzai met in Ankara under Turkish mediation last month and said they had reached a new accord to step up efforts against terrorism.

Musharraf told the NATO chief the Taliban were primarily an Afghan problem and that Afghan and international coalition forces needed to do more at military, political and administrative levels to defeat the insurgency, the source said.

Afghanistan and Western allies believe that Pakistan's support is crucial because the Taliban and other militants linked to the Al-Qaeda network use its semi-autonomous tribal areas as a launch pad for attacks inside Afghanistan.

Afghanistan suffered its bloodiest year in 2006 with more than 4,000 people killed, mostly rebels, sometimes in pitched battles between Taliban-led insurgents and NATO-led troops in regions bordering Pakistan.

The Taliban were ousted from power in Afghanistan in late 2001 by US-led forces.

As well as the NATO-led ISAF troops in Afghanistan, there are also around 14,000 troops in the US-led coalition focused on counter-terrorism tasks.

NATO Airstrikes Hit Taliban Hard

Associated Press | May 15, 2007
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KANDAHAR, Afghanistan - At least 11 suspected Taliban and possibly dozens more were killed by airstrikes on Taliban compounds Tuesday in southern Afghanistan, officials said.

Afghanistan's Defense Ministry said 11 Taliban were killed in the Zhari district of Kandahar province early Tuesday, though the provincial police chief said more than 60 suspected insurgents died, including three regional commanders.

The airstrikes were carried out at 3 a.m. local time, and many other suspected Taliban were wounded, said Kandahar Police Chief Esmatullah Alizai. He said there were no civilians killed or wounded.

quote:

Originally posted by RHYNO506:
if NATO fails in A-stan, it should be dissolved. at the very least the U.S. should pull out. if this mission does fail, i would never sign a mutual defense treaty with members who would not fight. U.K., Canada, Dutch, Australia, Poland, yes. all others, go to hell.

European Troop Limits Endanger Alliance

Military.com | By Christian Lowe | May 22, 2007
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NATO's top military commander said restrictions secretly imposed by European nations on the use of its troops to fight Taliban insurgents in Afghanistan could scuttle the alliance's mission there.

Gen. Bantz "John" Craddock said some countries have held troops back from deployments inside Afghanistan that could result in combat, revealing the secret rules against using troops to actually fight insurgents at the very last minute.

"You don't know what you don't know and sometimes when we ask ... for forces there's hesitance or reluctance," Craddock said at a breakfast meeting with defense reporters late last week. "I won't tell you that that has led to problems on the ground, but it occasionally slows down things on the ground and you have to work through it."

In one case, allied soldiers who had worked with an Afghan army unit as embedded trainers were precluded from deploying with their students after being sent to Taliban hotspots in the south. That forced a mad scramble to find Western troops to accompany the fledgling Afghan unit and help them battle anti-government forces.

Craddock said failure in Afghanistan could put NATO's future in doubt.

"NATO has to prevail by enabling the Afghan government to take charge of their own security," Craddock said. "Absent that outcome there will be a significant introspective study among all the NATO countries as to the future of NATO."

The so-called "undeclared caveats" add another layer to the long-simmering dispute between the United States and its NATO allies to lift restrictions on forces engaging in combat or deploying to contested areas. So far only the Dutch, British and Canadian forces have lifted combat caveats, though Craddock said all governments agreed to supply forces for combat if an allied unit was in danger.

Craddock's concerns come as President Bush holds meetings with NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer in Texas, calling for a relaxation of the troop restrictions and a redoubled effort to keep Afghanistan from sliding back into chaos.

The NATO commander said that in addition to caveats, his Afghanistan force is about four battalions short of his troop requirements. The force needs more "enablers" such as tactical air control parties and support troops, helicopters and more ground troops, he said.

But allies still won't pony up.

"If we had those forces we wouldn't be moving them around to cover all the bases all the time like we are now," Craddock said. "Without all those forces there my expectation is there'll be more people banged up before the job is done."

The troop shortfall is forcing commanders to switch abruptly from combat operations to stability operations and back again, making the implementation of a simultaneous security and stability push impossible, he added.

But Craddock stopped short of tying the troop shortfall to recent high-profile friendly-fire incidents and the growing discontent with the NATO force's presence in Afghanistan. Allied forces pay very close attention to rules of engagement and are keenly aware their actions affect the support of the Afghan people, he said.

"When we see six bad guys … go into a village and into a building, do you waive off or do you act?" Craddock said. "It's not like we made a mistake because we hit the wrong building. In the heat of the fight sometimes bad things happen, and the enemy wants those things to happen."