Test flaws prompt China to rethink look of FC-1 light fighter

Design problems lead to remodelling, with fourth prototype to incorporate changes

Flight International
27-Sep-2005

China’s Chengdu Aircraft (CAC) has postponed delivery of the first FC-1/Super-7 Thunder Dragon light fighter until 2007 to accommodate design changes. CAC says it will roll out a modified FC-1 prototype by year-end featuring revised air intakes, an extended strake and a larger vertical fin. The changes will be incorporated into the fourth prototype aircraft, a model of which was at last week’s Aviation Expo 2005 show in Beijing.



Problems with the original FC-1 design began to surface after its first flight in 2003, prompting the Chengdu Aircraft Design Institute to start working on a revised version last year. The changes have forced CAC to delay production of the first batch of aircraft for launch customer Pakistan and to postpone delivery of the type from late 2005 until 2007.

CAC is believed to have decided to pursue a revised design for the FC-1’s air intakes after smoke was discovered coming from the aircraft’s Klimov RD-93 engine during test flights.

It is believed test- pilot reports of control problems prompted CAC to also expand the wing leading-edge strakes, while the manufacturer says the vertical fin was elongated to accommodate an expanded equipment bay.

The redesigned FC-1 will have a maximum take-off weight slightly above the 12,400kg (27,300lb) of the original aircraft, but its top speed will be unchanged at Mach 1.6. The first prototype of the new design is scheduled to begin test flights early next year, with another two prototypes to be completed in 2006.

CAC continues to fly two prototypes of the original design, and to use a third for static testing. The company says the new batch of prototypes will initially fly with Chinese avionics, but will later be modified with Western systems. Pakistan is now evaluating British, French and Italian avionics packages and is expected to make a selection next year.

Islamabad has already ordered 16 FC-1s, assembly of which will be split between CAC and the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, and may acquire up to 134 more locally assembled aircraft.

BRENDAN SOBIE/BEIJING

October 1, 2005: Romania has decided to end conscription. The Romanian parliament voted to end the draft after the October 2006 "class" of draftees reports for duty. Beginning in January 2007, 20 year-old Romanian men will have to register with the government but the men will only be liable to call up in the case of war. The parliamentary vote formalizes one of many military modernization and reform programs Romania agreed to when it joined NATO. The Romanian military now has slightly more than 100,000 troops. As conscripts leave active duty Romania plans on reducing its armed forces to 75,000 personnel.

http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/balkans/articles/20051001.aspx

Why am I not surprised that China's having trouble with their light fighter program? Most of their aircraft seem to have some serious flaws to them, why should this one be any different?

October 1, 2005: Argentina and Chile are creating a joint peacekeeping battalion. These will be professional peacekeepers, as well as a unit with troops from both countries. That’s also pretty rare. As the UN desperately seeks nations to contribute troops to peacekeeping operations, they are even more desperate for troops who have some peacekeeping training. Few nations are willing to establish units of professional peacekeepers, but that seems to be changing. The peacekeeping duty is not done as charity work, the UN pays, and that, in effect, is a subsidy to the armed forces of the nation contributing the troops. Given the growing demand for peacekeepers, this establishment of a joint peacekeeper battalion by Chile and Argentina makes sense. It also helps build better relations between the two countries, which almost went to war with each other in the late 1970s.

If more countries establish professional peacekeeping units, the UN will probably give preference to these units when it comes to peacekeeping jobs and assignments. This is where the long desired “peacekeepers army” will come from, not from a “UN Army.”

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htun/articles/20051001.aspx

October 1, 2005: Poland, which long manufactured mobile anti-aircraft systems for the defunct Soviet Union, is now equipping some of those systems with American missiles, or at least American ideas. The most striking example of this was a plan to replace the SA-8 missiles on their mobile anti-aircraft system with American AMRAAM air-to-air missiles. This has already been done in the United States, and the Poles see the AMRAAM as a more effective missile than the Russian designed SA-8, and easily made compatible with SA-8 launchers, radars and fire control equipment. Then, it was noted that the Russian version of the AMRAAM (the RVV-AE/AA-12 “ARAMski”) cost less than a third as much as the AMRAAM and had very similar capabilities. Cost would be an important factor with such weapons, as the most likely buyers would be frugal customers like India, China or Pakistan.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htada/articles/20051001.aspx

AIRCRAFT CARRIER PROGRAMME

For many years it has been widely speculated that the PLA Navy (PLAN) is interested in building or acquiring an aircraft carrier to improve its power projection capabilities. Although the PLAN is known to have been studying the aircraft carrier building technology and operational principles since the mid-1980s, no concrete evidence had been found proving the existence of such a building programme until recently when the Kuznetzov-class carrier Varyag, obtained by the PLAN from Ukraine in 2002, emerged from a Dalian Shipyard dry dock painted in PLAN grey.

PROGRAMME

China’s ambition to build a ‘blue-water’ navy comprising aircraft carriers, large surface combatants and nuclear submarines can be traced back to the late 1950s, but the building of an aircraft carrier was not seriously considered until the early 1980s, when Admiral Liu Hua-Qing became the commander in chief of the PLA Navy, and later in the 1990s the vice chairman of the Central Military Commission (1989-97). Liu studied in Voroshilov Naval Academy in Leningrad, Soviet Union between 1954 and 1958, and became the driving force behind the transforming of the PLA Navy from a costal defence force to a regional naval force during his tenure.

Light Aircraft Carrier Proposal: Under the influence of Liu and other PLA Navy officers who strongly supported the ocean-going offensive strategy, in the early-1980s research institutes and think tanks within the PLA began to study the possibility of building a light aircraft carrier of around 15,000t to 20,000t displacement and carrying helicopters and vertical take-off and landing (VTOL) aircraft such as Sea Harrier.

Purchase of Retired HMAS Melbourne: The aircraft carrier research programme was boosted when a Chinese ship breaker purchased the retired 15,000t aircraft carrier HMAS Melbourne from Australia. The ship, which was stationed in a seaport in Guangzhou for five years before it was finally dismantled for scrap, provided a valuable opportunity for the Chinese shipbuilding engineers to see at first-hand how the ship was designed and built.

Purchase ex-Soviet Carriers: After the end of the Cold War, China was reported to have approached the Ukrainian and in 1992 to purchase the unfinished Soviet Kuznetsov-class carrier Varyag, but was refused. Later China approached the Russian government to purchase one of the four Russian navy’s 40,000t Kiev-class carriers, but the effort was unsuccessful too.

Purchase of European Carriers: In 1995-96 the Spanish shipbuilder Empresa Nacional Bazan approached the Chinese government to promote its two low-cost, lightweight conventional take-off and landing (CTOL) aircraft carrier designs, the 23,000t SAC-200 and the 25,000t SAC-220. However, China was only interested in obtaining the design blueprint rather than ordering the actual vessel. At the end of 1995 it was reported that France had offered to sell China the 32,700t carrier Clemenceau, which was decommissioned in September 1997. Again the deal went nowhere.

Purchase of Retired Russian Carriers: Two private Chinese companies purchased two ex-Soviet Navy Kiev-class aircraft carriers, Minsk and Kiev, in the late 1990s. Both carriers were developed into floating tourism parks based in Shenzhen and Tianjin respectively. It is unknown that how much value these three vessels are of to the Chinese aircraft carrier research programme, but without a doubt they all have been carefully examined by Chinese shipbuilders to benefit the future indigenous aircraft carrier project.

Purchase of Varyag: In early 1998 a Macau-based tourist and amusement company bought the unfinished (70%) 67,500t ex-Soviet Navy Kuznetsov class aircraft carrier Varyag for US$20 million. The company claimed that the ship would be converted into a floating amusement park and Casino in Macau, and the contract with Ukraine stipulated that the buyer can't use the carrier for military purposes. Before handing the ship over, the Ukrainians removed the ship’s electronic equipment and powerplant to prevent it from being turned into a commissionable warship. In March 2002, following a significant delay by Turkish authorities who denied the carrier passage through the Bosporus Strait, the Varyag arrived in Dalian and was soon surrounded by heavy security. Recent reports indicated that the PLAN may try to finish the ship to make it fully operational.

CARRIER AIRCRAFT

China is believed to have been developing a suitable fight aircraft for its future aircraft carrier. Sources inside Russia stated that China may be intent to acquire the thrust-vectoring control (TVC)-equipped AL-31FN engines in order to develop a carrier-capable version of the Chengdu J-10 fighter. The TVC would enable the fighter to take-off from a Russian-style ski-jumping flight deck and to reduce the aircraft’s landing speed, an important safety concern for carrier aircraft.

It is also possible that China will purchase the Russian Su-33 naval fighter aircraft or its improved variant for its future carrier. The Su-33, developed from the Su-27 fighter which has been serving with the PLA Air Force (PLAAF) for over a decade, is deemed to be more suitable for Varyag since the fighter was originally developed for Kuznetsov class and is 100% compatible with the Russian-designed carrier.

For carrier-based airborne early warning (AEW), the Russian Kamov Ka-31 naval helicopter has been considered by the PLAN. The radar-equipped naval helicopter is designed to provide warning of incoming low-flying aircraft and missile and acquire enemy surface target over the ship’s horizon. The PLAN is already operating the Ka-28 ASW/SAR helicopter based on a similar airframe design.

PROPULSIONS

The original powerplant onboard Varyag has been removed by Ukraine as a part of the contract, but China is relatively experienced in steam turbine technology, and may be able to fit the ship with an indigenous design.

SPECIFICATIONS

Displacement: (design) 65,000t; (current) 33,600t
Dimensions: N/A
Max Speed: N/A
Crew: N/A

Date Last Updated: 2 Oct 05

Its only a matter of time before the world's most populous nation develop a useable carrier of some sorts. Is it a concern? To some I guess it will be. It seems they are going small, so in a fight ours would still overwhelm with numbers. It is odd though as China is intent on producing a significant sub force with the capabilities of making a carrier little more than a big target for sea launched missiles and torpedoes. The Sunburn missiles seem nasty and very capable of making a hostile American carrier think twice about entering Chinese controlled areas without a serious anti-sub screen, which we are severely lacking in lately. The USN better wake up soon and rededicate themselves to that task before the carriers are rendered too vulnerable to use.

Cubs, how do these new gen Chinese fighters perfom in relation to our equipment? yes, the F-14s are getting old, but would be the first aircraft the Chinese meet in a conflict with us for some time until the new planes are delivered over a period of time. Would they have a rather tough fight with all the coastal SU 27's? The Russian planes are very, very good. It seems like everyone is buying them too.

Got any pictures of the NEW Varyag??

quote:

Cubs, how do these new gen Chinese fighters perfom in relation to our equipment? yes, the F-14s are getting old, but would be the first aircraft the Chinese meet in a conflict with us for some time until the new planes are delivered over a period of time. Would they have a rather tough fight with all the coastal SU 27's? The Russian planes are very, very good. It seems like everyone is buying them too.

Got any pictures of the NEW Varyag??

Actually the F-14s have been completely withdrawn from the Pacific Fleet & are down to at most two squadrons in the Atlantic Fleet & even those two might have converted to the Super Hornet. Strategypage.com posted a story yesterday about how our warplanes would stack up against the Su-35, which is an improved version of the Su-27. As you will see, unfortunately according to the Brits, our Hornets aren't going to stack up well against that aircraft. I think the numbers would be a little better against the Su-27, but if you ever go to the Navy forums on this site, you'll see that they're not too happy about the conversion from the Tomcat to the Super Hornet. I don't know how to post pictures on this site, but below is a link to some pictures of the Varyag. As for how our pilots would do against the Chinese Su-27s, I think that they would do quite well. The Flanker's arguably more maneuverable than the Hornet, Eagle, or Falcon which would be an advantage in closer engagements, but the problem would be them getting close enough to take advantage. I think that our air-to-air missiles are better than theirs & our pilots are a lot better trained & get more flying time than the Chinese pilots & I think that'd be the difference to tip the balance in our favor.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairfo/articles/20051003.aspx

http://sinodefence.com/navy/aircarrier/default.asp

This message has been edited. Last edited by: cubsrock,

The navy needs the F-35 yesterday. preferably optimised for air to air.










They need to fit atleast 4 amraams in that bay. maybe have stealthy wing pods for Aim-9x or amraam. This would really haelp the navy against the plan. without the F-35 I dont see The navy flying fighter jets over the chinese beach. Theyll use tommies and harpoon and slammer. But they wont be able to establish air superiority over the straight. This will fall to the air force.

You're forgetting two things jess, first of all any external weapons on the F-35 are capable of generating radar return, I don't see how they're going to make a stealthy wing pod. Second, the PLAN & PLAAF both have a limited number of first-class fighters, after all of their Su-27s & -30s, J-10s & -11s are destroyed or rendered inoperable, the remainder of their aircraft are obsolete & will be a turkey shoot for our Navy & Air Force pilots. Also, just because the Su-27 &-30 are both better aircraft on paper than the Hornet & Super Hornet doesn't mean a damn thing. China's pilots don't get a lot of cockpit time & the Flankers are supposed to be notoriously difficult to learn how to fly, it doesn't matter how great the plane is on paper, if you don't have qualified pilots, you basically have several hundred multi-million dollar paperweights.

I am amazed at how much internal fuel and wing area the raptor has. this thing is a beast!

October 8, 2005: The newly affluent Russian navy (thanks to the rising price of oil) is spending some of that money to refurbish some of its better Cold War nuclear submarines. Many of these boats were allowed to fall apart during 1990s when the navy budget largely disappeared. One of four Sierra class boats have been refurbished and returned to service, after having been inactive since 1997. The Krab was the second of four Sierra class boats, the first of which entered service in 1984. The Krab did so in 1987. Two other Sierras entered service after the Cold War ended (in 1992 and 1993). Three more boats in this class were cancelled, as were many other subs and surface ships, as the Russian navy saw its budget cut by over 80 percent in the 1990s. This first of the Sierras was taken out of service in 1997, partly because it had been in a collision and the navy could not afford to repair it, and partly because the navy could not afford to operate the sub even if there had not been an accident.

The 5,200 ton Sierras were the Russian response to the very successful American Lost Angeles class. The Sierras have eight torpedo tubes, four of them the larger 650mm (25.6 inch) type used to launch missiles or torpedoes. The Sierras were highly automated, requiring a crew of only 61 (about half found on a Los Angeles.) The Russians apparently believe that the Sierras are still competitive, and the other two boats of the class will probably be refurbished as well.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htsub/articles/20051008.aspx

October 9, 2005: After years of failures, Russia has finally gotten a new submarine ICBM design that works. A Bulava ICBM (or SLBM, for Sea Launched Ballistic Missile) was successfully fired from a SSBN (nuclear powered ballistic missile sub) on September 27th. The 45 ton Bulava ICBM is a slightly modified version of the new land based Topol-M ICBM. The Bulava is a little shorter, to fit into the missile tube, and thus has a shorter range of some 8,000 kilometers. Bulava has three stages and uses solid fuel. Currently, each Bulava carries a single 500 kiloton nuclear weapon, plus decoys and the ability to maneuver. The warhead is also shielded to provide protection from the electronic pulse of nearby nuclear explosions. Take away all of these goodies, and the Bulava could be equipped with six smaller (150 kiloton) warheads. But the big thing is still trying to defeat American anti-missile systems. The Bulava is expected to enter service next year, aboard the Dmitry Donskoi, am SSBN modified to accommodate the larger Bulava. Three new Borei subs are being built, to carry twelve Bulavas each. Russia currently has a dozen SSBNs in service, carrying a total of 192 older missiles.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/hticbm/articles/20051009.aspx

October 9, 2005: Another Pacific island nation has gotten rid of its air force. Well, sort of. New Zealand sold off its warplanes, after disbanding its fighter force in 2001. Last month, the Philippines removed from service its eight F-5 fighters. These 1960s era aircraft were not much of a match for any more recent warplanes, and expensive to maintain. The Philippines, like New Zealand, has kept helicopters, and some reconnaissance aircraft, in service. The Philippines is also keeping in service five S211 jet trainers, which can be used for ground attack, or air-to-air operations (like against terrorists who have hijacked an aircraft.) In both cases, the nations in question saw no practical need for a jet fighter force. While this is dicey for the Philippines, which faces possible clashes with China, New Zealand is nowhere near any hostile nation’s air power.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairfo/articles/20051009.aspx

October 9, 2005: France has decided to not build a second pair of Forbin-class destroyers. These are the French variant of the Franco-Italian Horizon class. This is the second time the two destroyers have been cancelled (the first time was in 1996). This leaves France without
replacements for the Cassard and Jean Bart, a pair of destroyers first commissioned in 1988 and 1991.

The two Forbin-class destroyers that will be purchased, are replacing the Suffren-class destroyers. The Suffren-class destroyers displaced 5,335 tons, had a top speed of 63 kilometers per hour. They were equipped with the Masurca surface-to-air missile, which is a Mach 3 missile with a range of 55.5 kilometers. The Suffrens also carried six Exocet anti-ship missiles, two 100-millimeter guns, and a launcher for the Malafon anti-submarine missile.

The Jean Bart and Cassard displace 3900 tons and have a top speed of 55 kilometers. These ships have a single launcher for the SM-1 surface-to-air missile, eight Exocet anti-ship missiles, one 100-millimeter gun, and two Sadral launchers for the Mistral surface-to-air missile. These ships are anywhere from 14 to 17 years old at present, and replacements are not an urgent matter as they are for the Suffren-class destroyers.

The Forbin-class destroyers will displace 5600 tons, will have a vertical-launch system carrying 48 ASTER-15 or ASTER-30 missiles. The ASTER-15 has a range of 20 kilometers, while the ASTER-30 has a range of 70 kilometers. The Forbin-class destroyers will also carry two 76-millimeter guns, two six-round Sadral launchers, and eight Exocet anti-ship missiles. These ships have cost about $900 million each.

France is not going to stand pat with just two Forbin-class destroyers. One thing being looked into is a plan to purchase two additional European Multi-Mission Frigates (known as FREEM). These ships also displace 5600 tons, but will only cost $320 million each due to the fact that current plans call for the purchase of 17 ships (eight ASW variants and nine land-attack variants) to replace the Tourville and Georges Leyuges-class destroyers. French plans for this frigate already include the ASTER-15 missile and a 127-millimeter gun. France will have a modern force of destroyers, one of the best in the world. – Harold C. Hutchison (hchutch@ix.netcom.com)

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htsurf/articles/20051009.aspx

quote:

The Philippines, like New Zealand, has kept helicopters, and some reconnaissance aircraft, in service. The Philippines is also keeping in service five S211 jet trainers, which can be used for ground attack, or air-to-air operations (like against terrorists who have hijacked an aircraft.) In both cases, the nations in question saw no practical need for a jet fighter force. While this is dicey for the Philippines, which faces possible clashes with China, New Zealand is nowhere near any hostile nation’s air power.

Agreed.

The PI needs some form of air interceptors...if for no other reason than to not get bullied by the Chicoms over territorial claims in the Spratleys. Sure hope the U.S. can work something out for them, they are a pretty solid ally for us in the Pacific theatre, as well as in the GWOT. At one time Taiwan was offering them their F-5s...not sure why it fell thru?

quote:

Originally posted by Sgt_Schlappy:

quote:

The Philippines, like New Zealand, has kept helicopters, and some reconnaissance aircraft, in service. The Philippines is also keeping in service five S211 jet trainers, which can be used for ground attack, or air-to-air operations (like against terrorists who have hijacked an aircraft.) In both cases, the nations in question saw no practical need for a jet fighter force. While this is dicey for the Philippines, which faces possible clashes with China, New Zealand is nowhere near any hostile nation’s air power.

Agreed.

The PI needs some form of air interceptors...if for no other reason than to not get bullied by the Chicoms over territorial claims in the Spratleys. Sure hope the U.S. can work something out for them, they are a pretty solid ally for us in the Pacific theatre, as well as in the GWOT. At one time Taiwan was offering them their F-5s...not sure why it fell thru?

Perhaps the Phillipines thought that even with Taiwan's F-5s, the F-5 would still be too expensive of an aircraft to maintain.

Since cubsrock has been slacking the past few days , here goes:

quote:

South Korea Plans to Lease Training Grounds in Russian Far East

South Korea plans to lease a Russian military training ground, military officers in Seoul said on Thursday.

Seoul is looking into leasing the training grounds in the Russian Far East due to a shortage of space within its own densely populated borders. “But no decision of any kind has been made,” an army officer was quoted by Reuters as saying.

South Korean artillery and tank units often travel for hours to sparsely populated areas for training. But complaints about noise and safety concerns persist among local residents, which prompted the military to consider using space in the Russian Far East, the army officer said.

Those plans, however, may be hindered by an adverse reaction from North Korea, the officials added.

“North Korea can be sensitive to this issue. It’s pretty obvious how North Korea would react if we were to take massive units of personnel and equipment up there,” the officer said.

quote:

Russia Successfully Test-Launches Ballistic Missile

Created: 28.09.2005 09:48 MSK (GMT +3), Updated: 10:12 MSK

MosNews

Russia successfully test-launched a newly-developed intercontinental ballistic missile on Tuesday, the navy said, The Associated Press reported.

The Bulava, a solid fuel missile, blasted off from the nuclear submarine Dmitry Donskoy in the White Sea and hit its designated target in the far eastern Kamchatka Peninsula, chief naval spokesman Capt. Igor Dygalo said in a statement.

Russia’s navy is to get two newly equipped nuclear submarines in 2006, armed with the new Bulava intercontinental ballistic missiles, the navy commander said in April. The missiles have a range of 5,000 miles and are in the midst of a three-year testing program.

Each submarine will be equipped with 12 missiles, Interfax said.

In December, Russian President Vladimir Putin encouraged the Defense Ministry to keep up production of new strategic missile systems, a process slowed in the past by a shortage of funds.

quote:

China Converts Russian Ship to Build Its First Aircraft Carrier

Created: 25.08.2005 17:09 MSK (GMT +3), Updated: 17:09 MSK

MosNews

Chinese shipyard workers have been repairing a badly damaged ex-Russian aircraft carrier and have repainted it with the country’s military markings, raising the question once again of whether China is pursuing longer-term plans to field its first carrier, Jane’s Defence Weekly, a popular weekly reporting on military affairs, has said in a report earlier this month.

In the latest developments, images show that workers at the Chinese Dalian Shipyard have repainted the ex-Russian Kuznetsov-class aircraft carrier Varyag with the markings and color scheme of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Navy (PLAN), JDW reported.

Additional new photographs show that other work, the specifics of which could not be determined, appears to be continuing and that the condition of the vessel is being improved.

JDW believes that PLAN technicians have also conducted thorough studies of the basic structure of the Varyag during the past few years to obtain a comprehensive understanding of the carrier’s structural design.

Former PLAN commander General Liu Huaqing stated in his memoirs that China had purchased blueprints for the carrier — a fact that Russian sources confirmed to JDW. Moreover, Gen Huaqing added: “The competent departments of the defense industry employed Russian aircraft carrier designers to come to China and give lectures.”

Still, China’s ultimate intentions for the Varyag remain unclear. One possibility is that Beijing intends to eventually have it enter into some level of service. A military strategist from a Chinese military university has commented publicly that the Varyag “would be China’s first aircraft carrier”.

quote:

Perhaps the Phillipines thought that even with Taiwan's F-5s, the F-5 would still be too expensive of an aircraft to maintain.

Since the F-5s are from Taiwan there was also pressure from China ...