There is really no use telling you. Stop beating a dead horse! YOU CANNOT JOIN UNLESS YOU ARE AN AMERICAN CITIZEN, OR HAVE A GREEN CARD!!!

You assume that you deserve a lot don't you? Especially from a country that isn't even yours? WRONG! Either way, I don't give two shits about you joining. Especially from a whiny little Turd like yourself.

Hey, I wanted a Lamborghini when I was 10 years old, but did I get one? Negative. The facts have been laid out. The regulations aren't going to change over night, just so you can join. How can anyone take a little ridicule, and get his panty's in a bunch? In your case, NOT YOU! Now please, do us all a favor and go drown yourself.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Just as I expected. More character attacks. You're just NOT capable of giving a counter-argument. People who can't win an argument or a debate resort to character attacks. You're the one who's PATHETIC.

"From a country that isn't even yours" Excuse me? The only thing that differentiates me from that high school dropout hick from some Lousianna swamp is a card or document issued by your government- otherwise I would be all American. I don't even have an accent when I speak English since in every nation I lived in before I went to the States, I attended an international school where mostly American expats were teachers. I even attended a military boarding school in California for part of high school and know many of your military customs from drill (FM22-5) to reveille to your various services's values. I even got a college degree to boot- from YOUR country. I love your military history and looked up to heroes like General MacArthur. I watched your football games as a cadet and befriended many locals. My civilian college years influenced me to become a liberal/democrat because I believe in equality of rights, not privilieges/opportunnities; that the weak should be helped. You have the IMPERTINENCE to SAY THAT COUNTRY isn't YOURS when I've spent so much time in your country during my student visa years and tried to understand as much as I can. Even those Mexican, Chinese and Haitian illegals who come to the States see the place as their own and slowly embrace and give their loyalty to their country as their own native-born children go to school and learn the pledge of allegiance. So NO, Mr. Hollywood, you're the one who's wrong when you say the country isn't mine just because of a law and a mundane "greencard".

Just give me ONE good reason WHY there shouldn't there be a US Foreign Legion- and read my previous posts before doing so. And your previous reason doesn't really hold up; that there are already immigrants there from many diverse countries. This doesn't count because they took the long road to a greencard- those people who were only in the US temporarily as students or working or are outside the country don't have a chance. My point is YOU wanna keep us out because YOU believe in PRIVILIEGES that some DO NOT HAVE TO EARN- such as your native born citizens. YOU just wanna keep us out with your laws and limit immigration.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Enssantor,

quote:

Originally posted by rpw0311:
Essantor, stick to the topic or take your political banter to another forum. Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Enssantor:
I am sticking to the topic. Just giving you my rationale for why there should be a US Foreign Legion.

No, you are not sticking to the subject, as the subject is about foreigners joining the US Military. There is no US Foreign Legion, and none is needed. If you are as eager to join as you say you are, you would do anything to get that Green Card. Instead you are here, bitching about how unfair the USA's laws are, on a public forum at that.

Either keep your opinions to yourself, or take this debate to another forum!

The fact that your laws make it so hard for non-residents is the reason why this forum exists in the first place! All the greencard holders who go to this forum DON'T EVEN NEED to come here- they can get help straight from a real recruiter or look up a website.

Since the forum deals with foreigners joining the US military- the subject of the creation of a US Foreign Legion is just as RELEVANT as any of the previous questions on this forum.

You call it "*****ing" because it's not something you want to hear, instead of taking what I have to say into account and considering it.

I've analyzed the LONG way to getting a greencard and it's just not feasible. Going from work permit to work permit and then waiting for a reluctant employer to sponsor you for a greencard- that's not the kind of life wants to live, working at a job one doesn't really want- just waiting for something that's not guaranteed. From the way I calculated it, if I took that route, I'll be around 38 years old by the time I have that greencard (and I'm 24 now), and by that time I would either be too old and the Army and Navy would have lowered their raised recruiting ages back to 35 since the current "War on Terror" may be over by then. I am not going through that route and waste my life waiting.

And I will not violate my INTEGRITY by paying someone to marry me just to get a greencard, even if there's a huge market in US citizens offering non-residents marriage in exchange for payment just to get the greencard. Even getting the greencard by consummated marriage is hard-since the USCIS has so many constant checks on whether marriage is actually consummated before they issue the greencard.

At least your Northern neighbor Canada took me in and I only have to wait 3 years for citizenship here. Then I have a choice of any Commonwealth nation's military to join once I get citizenship- the Canadian Forces, the UK military, the Australian military. Screw your Marine Corps when I can join the Royal Marines. So why should I join a nation's military (YOURS) that claims to fight for world freedom but in fact keeps foreign non-residents from joining?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Enssantor,

Well, if you took the time to check out my profile, you would notice that I am actually not a US citizen. I am not even a Green Card holder, so I am in the same shoes as you are.

I have also explored my paths of acquiring a GC, although not as extensively as you have. I am trying my luck with the Diversity Lottery, of course, you might not have the opportunity to do that (meaning your country might not be eligible to apply, I didn't check).

quote:

Originally posted by Enssantor:
So why should I join a nation's military with inconsiderate and apathetic jerks like you- especially- Mr. Hollywood.

If you feel so strongly about it, why are you even on these forums?

Aravis,

I did check- citizens from my country of birth- the Philippines- are NOT eligible for the greencard lottery because it's already sent more than 50,000 immigrants to the US over the past few decades (mostly nurses, computer engineers, physical therapists). And the special policy (The Treaty of Association) exclusively allowing Filipino citizens to join the US military was ended when the US Naval Base at Subic Bay was closed in 1992.

Anyways, as I said, I will try my luck with my new adoptive country, Canada. Thanks for enlightening me on your own situation. Good luck on your path to the greencard, but you'll probably be in your late 30s by the time you get it.

Hollywood Marine,

Sorry for the immature comment. It was edited out.

Good luck to you, too, sir.

quote:

Originally posted by Enssantor:
Aravis,

I did check- citizens from my country of birth- the Philippines- are NOT eligible for the greencard lottery because it's already sent more than 50,000 immigrants to the US over the past few decades (mostly nurses, computer engineers, physical therapists). And the special policy (The Treaty of Association) exclusively allowing Filipino citizens to join the US military was ended when the US Naval Base at Subic Bay was closed in 1992.

From what I've seen at the USCIS office, most immigrants from the philipines seem to be 20 year old women marrying old white men.

I am a spanish citizen engaged to a US citizen, CG active duty; going through the immigration process, i just wanted to clarify that your country is not only not eligible for the Diversity Lottery because there have been more than 50.000 immigrants in the past five years, not in decades as you said, and not only that, but it is also considered a "high fraud country" when it comes to visa issuances.

No offense to you or your country, but accurate information is important.

Why should you join a nation's military that keeps non-residents from joining?

- it is an easy way to gain citizenship
- you get a steady salary and benefits no other job can offer
- you are not seen as an immigrant but as a defender of freedom,gaining social status.

I am not saying any of these apply to you, but indeed these are reasons why non-residents want to join the military, hence why there have to be regulations that go beyond subjective criteria such as vocation and will to serve.

Now you say you can join the Royal Marines when you gain canadian citizenship, good for you, but remember you are here because it was you who wanted in the fist place to join the US armed forces and not the canadian, or any other Commonwealth militaries.

Of course, you can only take into consideration your personal situation, and it may not be fair for you not being able to join the US military, but it is more than fair for all US citizens to have laws that protect them against massive immigration, setting tough processes and standars to acquire residency and gain citizenship.

The US military, and its integrants serve with pride and honor,and; while allowing non residents join doesnt necessarily mean the loss of these values, it seems to me like building a corp of mercenaries.Just my two cents tho, as i said, i am not even american but spanish.

Kitano,

Yes, that statistic is true- but that only exacerbates my point though. It would be foolish to assume that all of these women married these old men just becaused they truly loved them, but probably just to immigrate to a first world country.

But still, I was referring to more recent immmigrants- like the past five years or so- especially the nurses and physical therapists who get preference for work permits and eventually the greencards.

I have a cousin who is a doctor in the Philippines who studied to be a nurse by US standards just so she can immigrate to the US, since a Philippine Medical Degree obviously doesn't live up to US standards even though doctors from both countries are just as good and hard-working (with Philippine doctors being underpaid).

Nasmah,

I agree on some of your points but I disagree on your viewing a potential US Foreign Legion as a mercenary force. The French Foreign Legion, on the other hand, has also been called a mercenary force, but they are one of the most professional military forces in the world and they take orders from the French High Command, not some mercenary firm like Executive Outcomes of South Africa.

BTW, Nasman, I am not "here" if you mean the US, you are mistaken, mi hermano desde Espana. I am already in Vancouver, Canada. Maybe it's time I visited that American Draft Dodger monument here not too far from here, hehe.(just kidding)

BTW, I also recall that Spain also used to have their Spanish Foreign Legion, (La Legion de Extranjeros) which was later shortened to La Legion and they stopped accepting foreigners in 1987. Their exploits are no less daring than those of their French counterparts, but it's a shame that they are not as well known. Just a little quick note.

(Nasmah, De Donde Eres en Espana?)

Not hermano but hermana

And yes, de España 100%!

Have you ever seen the "legionarios" march?That is something definitely worth seeing. For some people they are an elite corp, for others the empty heads that work in the worst conditions, along with the army parashoot troops (excuse me cause this is not at all the accurate translation lol)

I agree maybe the term "mercenaries" was a bit too much, but i think you get the idea...Here we have seen how the numbers have increased for non nationals in the military, it is not a prestigious profession anymore but a way of making money for those who do not know what to do with their lives, which i think is sad.

I just think making it easier for people to join just for getting a way for aliving is not right (sadly tho, that is the situation a lot of immigrants find themselves in when they come here, no job offers for them, no skills to be offered...), especially for Spain, that is not in direct and real need of a big armed forces.

quote:

Originally posted by Enssantor:
Maybe it's time I visited that American Draft Dodger monument here not too far from here, hehe.(just kidding)

Kidding aside, that is by far the most retarded thing you can post on here.

Hollywood Marine,

It's not there anymore- it was removed from the town it was originally placed at for being too "controversial". However it is in a local museum.

Even as you condescend to me for taking a little ridicule yourself for that comment, I'd like to point that while thousands of your own citizens fled across the border during that war, thousands of Canadians also crossed the border to enlist in both the US Army and Marine Corps. And they served well. You can quote Ann Coulter for that as well.

The laws were different then obviously.

For the sake of any non-US resident here who does not know what we are talking about when we mean the "Draft Dodger" memorial...

We are talking about the so-called memorial to the thousands of male US citizens of conscript age (18 and above) who fled to Canada during the Vietnam War (1960s to early 1970s)in order to flee the draft, since every male US citizen was required to serve if they did not have a special waiver or debilitating condition. The memorial was meant to express the idea of Canada as welcoming sanctuary to these conscientious objectors and other people who did not believe in the war. However, while it was displayed openly in a Canadian town in British Columbia for about a decade, it was later taken down and put into a museum because of its controversial nature. I only mentioned in a point of jest, but obviously someone else has their "panties in a bundle" for my mentioning it.

In contrast, thousands of idealistic Canadians who wanted to fight against the spread of Communism went into the United States and simply enlisted in the US Army and Marine Corps and many of these were sent to Vietnam. And 110 of them died there to prove a point.

Scroll down to "Canadians in the US military" in the ff. link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_and_the_Vietnam_War

This link does mention that while some of these "Canadians also had US citizenship or had lived in the US previously", but it also mentions that many of the other recruits were "out of work (Canadian) soldiers" frustrated by Canadian government cutbacks. It also mentions others who joined "for ideological reasons".

The fact that these other non-US citizen Canadians could simply enlist back then even though they were not US citizens or permanent residents reiterates my point that the laws were different back then. AND SHOULD HAVE STAYED THAT WAY, not as a way for people to come to the US, but for true idealists who want to fight for a cause TO JOIN THE ONE MILITARY IN THE WORLD WHERE THEY CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

If I may make a suggestion, if the idea of allowing non-residents back is ever considered, I will suggest a trade-off/something to mollify all these people on this forum who feel it's not fair to citizens and permanent residents who do have the right to enlist to allow it for non-resident foreigner as well.

The suggestion is- TO MAKE BOOT CAMP HARDER, so that only those who are the most determined, idealistic people will make it through and those in it for material benefits will be weeded out. The US Marine Corps boot camp is the longest among the US services-13 weeks at MCRD plus about 7 weeks (?)at Camp Lejeune about ten days after graduation from MCRD for further Marine Infantry Training. Then they have their specific MOS training. Army boot camp, on the other hand, is only about 9 weeks (with the exception of Fort Benning-13 weeks) before graduation and before they proceed to their AIT/MOS training.

If the idea of accepting non-resident foreigners again (or even a foreign legion) is ever tossed around, they should make a boot camp for these foreigners (for both Army and USMC recruits) that is 16 WEEKS LONG and harder. That's about as long as the boot camp is for the French Foreign Legion-16 weeks. Only about 800 or of the 20,000 recruits annually to the FFL make it. If you any of you conservatives on this forum believe in equal opportunnity.means as opposed to equal rights/ends as liberals do, you will give these non-resident foreigners a chance by considering this alternative- a harder boot camp to weed out those in it just for the greencard and in which only those who REALLY WANT IT will get through.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Enssantor,

Well,its an offending attitude. If you're educated those words isn't proper no matter what your topic is or what's behind those words. Even so the picture shown as a retarded doesn't mean we have to descriminate them. I think we have this so-called ethics. Maybe you should be humble whoever you are and whatever you have now,and wherever you are. Being a marine isn't racial at all in the performance of duties or am I wrong?
Sorry if I'm out of the topic.

quote:

Originally posted by HollywoodMarine:
There is really no use telling you. Stop beating a dead horse! YOU CANNOT JOIN UNLESS YOU ARE AN AMERICAN CITIZEN, OR HAVE A GREEN CARD!!!

You assume that you deserve a lot don't you? Especially from a country that isn't even yours? WRONG! Either way, I don't give two shits about you joining. Especially from a whiny little Turd like yourself.

Hey, I wanted a Lamborghini when I was 10 years old, but did I get one? Negative. The facts have been laid out. The regulations aren't going to change over night, just so you can join. How can anyone take a little ridicule, and get his panty's in a bunch? In your case, NOT YOU! Now please, do us all a favor and go drown yourself.

Thanks Claramae. Some people think they're better than others just because they can live permanently on the other side of the fence. And some love stepping on the weak, including the mentally and physically handicapped or people they consider to be simply different in beliefs or ethnicity- hence the name alienation or calling them "freaks". It's a shame that there are pricks like that in any country.

Enssantor,

My thoughts took some of the same routes as your's are now travelling when it comes to Boot Camp and its duration and toughness. I thought that it should be longer and tougher to make sure that anyone who passed it was physically fit to fight in a war. However, that was before I realized that not everyone in the Military will actually make it to the front line to fight. Really intelligent people are needed in some support MOSs such as Admin, Intel, Command and Control Systems, Comm etc. and sometimes those who aren't the strongest and fastest turn out to be the most intelligent. Why weed them out just because they can't do 20 pullups and run 3 miles in 18 minutes? Only so that more foreigners can make it into the US Military?

Aravis,

You are missing my point. Boot Camp isn't ALL about strength- it's also a MIND GAME. The instructors will try weed also those who are MENTALLY weak, regardless of how big their biceps are. Those who are truly intelligent will realize that it's just a mind game and not let it get to them- it's a battle of mind over matter. The mind can help the body overcome any obstacle if ONE is truly determined. That's why one must also be mentally prepared for boot camp and expect no quarter from a drill instructor. One who TRULY WANTS IT won't be flustered by any damn hazing rituals such as "blanket parties" or other things far worse than the normal USMC "quarterdecking".

The whole point of making any boot camp harder JUST FOR FOREIGNERS (or for a Foreign Legion) was only a concession to those people in this forum who believe that serving in the US military is a "priviliege" for US citizens and greencard holders, when everyone should be given a chance to prove their mettle in the only military in the world that can make a difference.

Aravis, although I already am in Canada now and waiting for my Canadian citizenship in order to join the Canadian Forces later on, but I am prepared to go back to the United States if the rules ever change and they allow non-resident foreigners in (as was the case with the Philippine citizens before 1992)or if they ever create a US Foreign Legion.

Besides I still have all those cadet manuals from my JROTC cadet days at that US military high school in Carlsbad, California (was a foreign cadet there for 2 years) to guide me (FM-22-5, FM-21-76). Marine line training manuals and those Krav Maga classes should also be a help in addition to keeping my body up to the Army's PFT. I will be SQUARED AWAY and ready to go to MEPs if they ever give me the chance! Then I will finally be able to join my fellow cadet classmates who are there in fighting.

Enssantor,

I think you are contradicting yourself a bit by giving the FFL with a drop out rate of 96% as an example and then saying that those who really want it will pass because it is a mind game. Yes, the way Boot Camp is right now, it is in fact a mind game. But make it physically more demanding while at the same time turning up the level of f***-f*** games and you will see many extremely intelligent patriots drop because of medical issues.

This whole thing isn't about being unfair to those who were born outside of the USA; it is, as always, about there not being enough funding. The US Military simply does not have enough money to "try recruits out" and then weed them out after a few weeks if they're not up to par by then. A foreign legion would have to do a thorough background check on every person applying, and without all the nations with applicants consenting in giving out information about their citizens, this would be extremely hard to accomplish.
(Tear this statement apart if you like, as these are just thoughts off the top of my head as to why a foreign legion will not be reality in the future. I haven't exactly put down a lot of time and energy on research.)

quote:

Originally posted by Claramae:
Well,its an offending attitude. If you're educated those words isn't proper no matter what your topic is or what's behind those words. Even so the picture shown as a retarded doesn't mean we have to descriminate them. I think we have this so-called ethics. Maybe you should be humble whoever you are and whatever you have now,and wherever you are. Being a marine isn't racial at all in the performance of duties or am I wrong?
Sorry if I'm out of the topic.

I will make this short and simple Cupcake. Grow some thick skin, or reconsider joining the armed forces. Sensitive over a picture? You have a lot coming to you if, and when you decide to join the military.

Who said anything about "race?" I am supportive of any knucklehead (male and female) with the desire to enlist... legally. Now drop the sub-topic of a foreign legion, and let's get back to the topic at hand of answering questions for non-US citizens. YOU CANNOT JOIN UNLESS YOU ARE AN AMERICAN CITIZEN, OR HAVE A GREEN CARD!!!

Get over yourselves of what you might believe will and will not work. It's Naaht Gonna Happen! As for me being "humble"... BUWAHAHAHA!!! Try "Arrogant, Cocky, and Full of Himself!"

quote:

Originally posted by HollywoodMarine:
Now drop the sub-topic of a foreign legion, and let's get back to the topic at hand of answering questions for non-US citizens. [b]YOU CANNOT JOIN UNLESS YOU ARE AN AMERICAN CITIZEN, OR HAVE A GREEN CARD!!!

Fine. You might as well post this last sentence typed in BOLD up on the main recruiting forum page. Unless you like answering redundant questions from every potential recruit from say Ghana or Ukraine who can barely speak English that hasn't read the previous posts in this thread.

Have fun posting the same response again and again.

quote:

Originally posted by Enssantor:
Fine. You might as well post this last sentence typed in BOLD up on the main recruiting forum page. Unless you like answering redundant questions from every potential recruit from say Ghana or Ukraine who can barely speak English that hasn't read the previous posts in this thread.

Have fun posting the same response again and again.

YOU CANNOT JOIN UNLESS YOU ARE AN AMERICAN CITIZEN, OR HAVE A GREEN CARD!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Aravis:
Enssantor,

My thoughts took some of the same routes as your's are now travelling when it comes to Boot Camp and its duration and toughness. I thought that it should be longer and tougher to make sure that anyone who passed it was physically fit to fight in a war. However, that was before I realized that not everyone in the Military will actually make it to the front line to fight. Really intelligent people are needed in some support MOSs such as Admin, Intel, Command and Control Systems, Comm etc. and sometimes those who aren't the strongest and fastest turn out to be the most intelligent. Why weed them out just because they can't do 20 pullups and run 3 miles in 18 minutes? Only so that more foreigners can make it into the US Military?

Oh..."really intelligent people" are needed in support positions, eh? I guess that means the ones in the combat jobs are somehow less intelligent? It's a common mistake, made by like most people like yourself who haven't served yet.

Keep in mind though, that those "intelligent" people who aren't the "strongest and fastest" still find themselves on the receiving end of an IED attack and ambush in Iraq. They'll need that strength to pull their buddy out of a burning wreck and drag them to safety.

quote:

Originally posted by HollywoodMarine:

quote:

Originally posted by Enssantor:
Fine. You might as well post this last sentence typed in BOLD up on the main recruiting forum page. Unless you like answering redundant questions from every potential recruit from say Ghana or Ukraine who can barely speak English that hasn't read the previous posts in this thread.

Have fun posting the same response again and again.

YOU CANNOT JOIN UNLESS YOU ARE AN AMERICAN CITIZEN, OR HAVE A GREEN CARD!!!

Hollywood Marine,

I did say On the Main Recruiting Forum front page, not the end of this thread. That way everyone-especially that potential non-resident recruit from say Ghana or Ukraine, will read it before even entering this thread. Someone should tell Uconndogg about this so you guys won't have to answer this same redundant question again and again about non-resident/non-greencard holder foreigners joining.

BTW, I admire your integrity in sticking to and upholding the regulations, considering the fact that many recruiters, especially in the US Army, have been caught recently with turning a blind eye on fraudulent or sub-standard recruit enlistments to meet their quotas as well as acccepting bribes for things like smuggling drugs. Keep up the good work. I'm only sorry I won't have the chance to join and fight alongside your brothers-in-arms.

Hi,

I am a refugee and currently holding the i-94 card, my aplication for the green card is being processing. It's take about 6 months to 1 years before I can have a green card.
Do I have to wait until I receive the green card to join the arm force ?

Thank you

10547416,

Yes, you have to have your greencard FIRST before you can even go to the recruiting office of any US military service.

So you have to wait first. Follow up with USCIS to make sure your refugee status and greencard is being processed. From which country are you a refugee from, if I may ask?

Enssantor

I was original from Vietnam and flee to Philippines since 1992.

Hollywood Marine,

Read this article.

"Enlarging (US) Military Poses Challenge" from this site.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061220/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/growing_the_military_1

Even if the US Army and Marines claim they are exceeding their recruitng quotas, I still don't see why you're so against recruiting non-resident foreigners into the US military (other than the French Foreign Legion reason you stated earlier). I've already dropped the subject of the US Foreign Legion, but still, recruiting non-permanent resident/non-greencard foreigners (like those on student visas or work permits in the US, like I used to be) might be a short-term solution to helping enlarge the US military- especially for future needs in Iraq, Iran (a future invasion?), Afghanistan and the Korean Peninsula (let's face it, North Korea has to go!). What do you think? (take note, I already dropped the US Foreign Legion issue)

Why make it easy for foreigners to get into our military? Then everyone will abandon their countries to join ours, and boom! there goes the USA!

quote:

Originally posted by USAFWannabe:
Why make it easy for foreigners to get into our military? Then everyone will abandon their countries to join ours, and boom! there goes the USA!

Airman Wannabee,

I don't necessarily agree with your statement. You assume that everyone in the world wants to come to the United States and live there- that's pretty presumptuous if you ask me. If that were true, why aren't the people in the UK and other First-World countries like in the EU, Canada or Japan doing so as well? America isn't the only country in the world with a high standard of living. I am making a point about foreigners joining the US military because it is the only military in the (Free) World who has such power and global reach that it is the only military that CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

But of course, you'd wanna rub in your conservative thought in my face and say it's my country's military, NOT the world's. That's just dividing, saying that Americans are worth more than any other human beings in the planet. If America truly fights for freedom, it should let those individualistic non-resident foreigners fight for its military- they don't even have to be guaranteed US citizenship or a greencard- just let them fight for you!

I am just voicing what I believe is right. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!

Enssantor

I respect your opinion, I was just voicing mine. We just don't see eye to eye, but that's fine!

Merry Christmas!

quote:

Originally posted by Enssantor:
[ it should let those individualistic non-resident foreigners fight for its military-
Enssantor

I meant to say "idealistic" not individualistic", but my point still stands. Happy Holidays everyone!

To Hollywood Marine, and all the non-resident foreigners on this forum,

Here's an article that is good news and may yet hold hope for those of us who want to fight right away and NOT take the long, work-sponsorship process for a greencard just to enlist:

"US military considers recruiting foreigners"

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2...cruiting_foreigners/

Max Boot and Hackworth's ideas are finally making an affect on your officials. You cannot fight a war if your own country's citizens are generally apathetic about the war and live as if it's peacetime.

As I said before, I will be ready to cross the border if and when the regulations change.

Happy Holidays, people!

quote:

Originally posted by Enssantor:
Here's an article that is good news and may yet hold hope for those of us who want to fight right away and NOT take the long, work-sponsorship process for a greencard just to enlist:

"US military considers recruiting foreigners"

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2...cruiting_foreigners/

This is extremely good news! If they start recruiting foreigners I may even consider leaving the university I'm studying in at the moment and join the US military instead.

Recruiting skilled foreigners is a lot more rational thing to do than lowering standards to attract more citizens.

Mikko,

Even if they do start accepting non-green card foreigners in the US military, I suggest you finish college first, since those who enlist in the US Army with a US college degree will automatically get the rank of E-4/Corporal/Specialist. This is a sharp contrast to the US Marines where they will only give you E-2 if you just enlist.

Take note that regardless of your degree, you can't join OCS for either service since you have to have citizenship first- so enlistment must come first. People will respect a Mustang officer who later rose from the enlisted ranks.

If you don't believe me about this advanced rank thing, check this link:

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/armyjoin/a/advancedrank....in%20the%20US%20Army

I got my US college degree before I moved to Canada after my student visa/OPT work permit expired in the US. Happy Holidays to you, Mikko!

Enssantor

quote:

I suggest you finish college first, since those who enlist in the US Army with a US college degree will automatically get the rank of E-4/Corporal/Specialist.

Indeed. Maybe I should first get a master's degree here, then join the US military (assuming they start recruiting foreigners without permanent visas) and then use any benefits I get from the military to finish some kind of a doctoral degree in some American university.

quote:

Take note that regardless of your degree, you can't join OCS for either service since you have to have citizenship first- so enlistment must come first.

Yeah, I know this. Luckily, the citizenship process (once you're in the military) doesn't take that long these days.

And Happy Holidays you too!

Mikko S,

I am confused. So you already have a US college degree? I doubt your having a Masters will give you a higher rank- you know that you will still be enlisted no higher than E-4 if you do US Army, as I said. And E-3 for the Navy and Air Force and E-2 for the US Marine Corps.

Don't expect preferential or better treatment just because you have more education. You gotta be a citizen first before you expect that education to be recognized, which therefore can allow you to become an officer.

Good luck to you Mikko!

Enssantor

PS- which US service do you prefer, if I may ask? And which US University did you study at? or are still studying at?

I graduated from Loyola Marymount Univ. in Los Angeles, California in May 2005.

quote:

Originally posted by Enssantor:
I am confused. So you already have a US college degree?

No. I live in Finland and study at a Finnish university but I'm considering finishing a part of my education abroad.

quote:

Don't expect preferential or better treatment just because you have more education.

Heh - of course not.

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PS- which US service do you prefer, if I may ask?

Well I have been considering between the Army and the USMC.

Mikko,

Thanks for your reply. You gotta check and find out whether they will take your Finnish college degree, since college degrees from some countries are not honored in the US. Finishing your degree in the US by transferring to a US college may not be a bad idea, but you must be aware that the tuition costs for a foreign student in a US college are not cheap, since you're not eligible for student loans there. Otherwise you may have to start at just E-1 if they won't accept your Finnish college degree for advanced promotion to E-4.

Perhaps you can also check with the any Masters' programs in the US that will later accept you if you choose finish your degree there in Finland instead.

Good luck to you in your quest to be a US Army GI or US Marine. Perhaps we will be brothers-in-arms one day!

Enssantor

quote:

Originally posted by Enssantor:
To Hollywood Marine, and all the non-resident foreigners on this forum,

Here's an article that is good news and may yet hold hope for those of us who want to fight right away and NOT take the long, work-sponsorship process for a greencard just to enlist:

"US military considers recruiting foreigners"

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2...cruiting_foreigners/

Max Boot and Hackworth's ideas are finally making an affect on your officials. You cannot fight a war if your own country's citizens are generally apathetic about the war and live as if it's peacetime.

As I said before, I will be ready to cross the border if and when the regulations change.

Happy Holidays, people!

How long are you going to keep on beating this dead horse, and clogging up this forum with your cr*p? You've made your point, now please go away. You're not eligible to enlist in the US military and no one really gives a damn about what you think would be a great idea to increase enlistment numbers.

How many times do you have to say the same thing?

The Army may be considering recruiting people from other countries, but they sure as hell aren't going to take people from the philipines with it's high visa fraud and Islamic terrorism. It won't happen, but third world countries aren't going to even be considered.

In the end they'll probably change the rules to allow people entering the US on immigrant visas to enlist before they get their green card.

quote:

Originally posted by Enssantor:
You gotta check and find out whether they will take your Finnish college degree, since college degrees from some countries are not honored in the US.

Yeah but the thing is that I know I can finish at least a part of my degree (either master's or doctoral) abroad (in the US) which makes it eligible in the US although I'm not entirely sure how the military sees it.

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Finishing your degree in the US by transferring to a US college may not be a bad idea, but you must be aware that the tuition costs for a foreign student in a US college are not cheap, since you're not eligible for student loans there.

Well I have to check exactly what kind of exchange programs we have here. They have different offers and I think the Finnish government provides some kind of financial support too.

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Otherwise you may have to start at just E-1 if they won't accept your Finnish college degree for advanced promotion to E-4.

Well that really doesn't matter

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Originally posted by Enssantor:
Just as I expected. More character attacks. You're just NOT capable of giving a counter-argument. People who can't win an argument or a debate resort to character attacks. You're the one who's PATHETIC.

quote:

Originally posted by Enssantor:
You and Hollywoord Marine just refuse to listen to what I say anyways, because of your conservative "American citzens only matter" attitude which makes you see me as just another "Alien" at the other side of the fence regardless of how long I've studied and live in your country and how much I respect your history and culture.

I won't let your own despicable crap discourage me. The more pricks like you say "NO", the more determined I will be.

So I'm also a prick huh? Very well... Stand By.

NO YOU'RE NOT A PRICK. Just people like Kitano!

I apologize again. But I don't take back what I said to Kitano.

Hello, I thought this would be the appropiate place to ask this question:

I am a permanent legal resident, aka green card holder, my green card says it will expire in November of 2007. I've been wanting to join the Air Force and I've actually talked to a recruiter, he told me I met the basic requirements and that I could come down to the base and fill out paperwork, interview me and then talk about taking the ASVAB. My only question in regards to that is if I am still elegible to join if my green card expires in Nov '07. I would like a clear answer please, this is very serious.

thanks in advance

quote:

Originally posted by 13188705:
Hello, I thought this would be the appropiate place to ask this question:

I am a permanent legal resident, aka green card holder, my green card says it will expire in November of 2007. I've been wanting to join the Air Force and I've actually talked to a recruiter, he told me I met the basic requirements and that I could come down to the base and fill out paperwork, interview me and then talk about taking the ASVAB. My only question in regards to that is if I am still elegible to join if my green card expires in Nov '07. I would like a clear answer please, this is very serious.

thanks in advance

13188705,

Why don't you just start the USCIS paperwork for renewing your greencard? Have you renewed it before?

You should think about extending your status first before even thinking about enlisting. I doubt they will allow to enlist if you only have one year left on your greencard, but you'd have to wait for the responses from the other contributors to this board.

Do you mind if I ask how did you get your greencard? work sponsorship or sponsorhip by relative/spouse? Or one attained by having investor's status parents? RENEWING YOUR GREENCARD SHOULD TAKE PRIORITY OVER ANY ENLISTMENT PROCEDURES.

www.uscis.gov

13188705,

BTW, if you've already lived on your first greencard at least five years, I think you're already eligible to apply for US Citizenship. Why not just start the USCIS paperwork for citizenship before even thinking of enlisting? That would make things a helluva lot easier.

Once you take the oath of citizenship, you should be more than eligible to apply for the Air Force- not just enlisted, but also OTS(Officer Training School)if you already have a college degree.

Just trying to help.


again, look up
www.uscis.gov

which is NO LONGER CALLED "INS", as some previous contributors to this forum keep calling it.

I actually got my green card by the way of marriage to a US Citizen. So i suppose my green card, while it says Permanent Resident, its stil conditional?. I don't understand what kind of sense that makes when permanent implies continuity, but I guess it still is Conditional? According to what I've been told, I need to start the process to remove those conditions 3 months prior to the expiration of my green card. So in my case that would be August of 07.

Again, any information on this matter is greatly appreciated.

quote:

Originally posted by 13188705:
I actually got my green card by the way of marriage to a US Citizen. So i suppose my green card, while it says Permanent Resident, its stil conditional?. I don't understand what kind of sense that makes when permanent implies continuity, but I guess it still is Conditional? According to what I've been told, I need to start the process to remove those conditions 3 months prior to the expiration of my green card. So in my case that would be August of 07.

Again, any information on this matter is greatly appreciated.

Your greencard applied to marriage is "conditional" because it only lasts two years and at the end of the two year period, the USCIS will evaluate your case and see whether your marriage is "genuinely consummated", meaning that that this was not another marriage for the sake of getting a greencard. Such proof could include the presence or birth certificate of a child born to both of you, or tax receipts of both your incomes and receipts of all your expenses as your were living together, etc. to show that you are genuinely living together. Once you pass this evaluation (not one time, but over your whole "conditional green card" period), you will be issued a genuine greencard that lasts longer and one which is renewable.

You conditional greencard may be revoked if:

1.) You and your spouse do not live together or have filed a petition for seperation/divorce/or even annulment

2.) The marriage is sham marriage used for the sole purpose of obtaining a greencard and there is little evidence to show that your marriage is consummated.

3.) Your spouse has died in the 2 year period (you had better look up at NOLO guidebook called: "US Immigration Made Easy" for further elaboration on whether your greencard will be taken away in this case

As said before:

Look up

www.uscis.gov

You should find all you need to answer your questions there.

Get your status assured first BEFORE even thinking of enlisting.

Kitano,

Here's another one to stifle your arrogance and your xenophobic attitude. Click on the pic if you can't see it.



HAPPY NEW YEARS!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Enssantor,

quote:

Originally posted by 13188705:
I actually got my green card by the way of marriage to a US Citizen. So i suppose my green card, while it says Permanent Resident, its stil conditional?. I don't understand what kind of sense that makes when permanent implies continuity, but I guess it still is Conditional? According to what I've been told, I need to start the process to remove those conditions 3 months prior to the expiration of my green card. So in my case that would be August of 07.

Again, any information on this matter is greatly appreciated.

The first card is conditional to prove that you didn't have a marriage of convience. You need to prove that you are still married, living together, etc.. You can do this by showing bank statements, loan papers, rental agreements, etc.. You should also consider getting notarized letters from friends and family telling them that you still are together. Be prepared for this process to take months to go through and you will be given an extension as well as some other paperwork. The new resident card will last for 10 years.

quote:

Originally posted by Enssantor:
Kitano,

Here's another one to stifle your arrogance and your xenophobic attitude. Click on the pic if you can't see it.

Enssantor,

I'm from Europe myself. Days after the 9/11 eye opener, I sent off a short email to my local US embassy asking if there was any way I could join the fight. The reply I got was the same stuff about green cards you hear here at Military.com. I left it at that (and felt weird for writing that email in the first place - take note), later joined my country's military, did my duty, etc.

A few years later, I met my American wife. When she couldn't find a job in my country, I moved to hers. I wasn't one of those people who dream of moving to America, because my home country is a free and fine place. Anyway, I got my green card through marriage, and later decided that my duty to serve in these troubled times still hadn't been fulfilled. So, I enlisted here. If my wife were from another Western country and we'd have had to move there, I would enlist there if that were possible. Just a matter of principle.

So, I come from a similar background as you do. I feel the duty to serve, but with all due respect to you, service in a volunteer military is a privilege, not a right. Anyone who wants to run off and join the US military if they have no allegiance to this country raises an immediate red flag in my head. Have they watched too many Hollywood movies? What's their level of maturity? If you just wanted to immigrate because this place is better than back home, that's one thing. But saying straight out, "I want to immigrate to join the US military" strikes me as just a little nutty. Quite frankly, I wouldn't want to serve with someone who displays such a weird (and mercenary) attitude.

People like you come here and waste people's time, seemingly in some vain hope of being told about a secret golden ticket in a chocolate bar that will let you sidestep the system. Well, the regulations are laid out in black and white. Deal with it. Don't get angry at people who tell you what reality looks like. The US won't change its laws just to meet your weird desires. Why this thread has more than a couple posts on it is beyond me. Only people like 13188705 seem to have any valid questions (which, as usual, only a recruiter can definitively answer).

So, here you have it from an (accidental) immigrant: get your head sorted out. Seriously, wanting to become a US citizen just so you can kill people is not a healthy attitude. Talk to someone professional about that.

PS: While you're blabbering on this board, the Filipino government is screwing around in its Muslim areas and undoing all the good work that US forces have done there recently. Why not stay home and keep your country from breeding terrorists instead of acting out on the internet?

WHY are all of you doing nothing but going out of your way to make me quit?

Others have come across other obstacles. I just have the obstacle of citizenship and your unreasonable immigration laws to cross.

I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but from what I've observed, I've done more to help non-greencard holders on this forum on their way to find a way to enlistment by telling them about my experience, such as the messages of advice I sent to Max989, who himself is considering studying college in the United States on a student VISA- a road I have taken before but bore no fruit for me.

BTW, Mr. "Puzzled Poolee", people like 133188705 are NOT the only people on this forum who have legitimate questions JUST because they already have greencards. Those who don't have the coveted "greencards" have just as much the right to know the way to enlistment and most of your simply saying "YOU CANNOT ENLIST UNLESS YOU HAVE US CITIZENSHIP OR A GREENCARD" is just simply stating the rules, NOT helping them at all.

You've gotta take into to account their situations if you wanna help them. For those who live overseas, you gotta tell how they can immigrate to the US beyond just getting a tourist visa or that so-called "greencard lottery" which many country's citizens aren't qualified for. For those who are already there or planning to go there in the US on temporary visas such as student, tourist and work permit visas, you gotta tell them how they can find a way to get a greencard. And for the umpteenth time, as I've seen in previous posts, the agency dealing with is called US CITIZENSHIP AND IMMIGRATION SERVICES (USCIS), NOT INS as it was called before. But of course most of what I've seen is the same redundant sign "You cannot enlist unless you have a greencard" in the responses.

You want me to go away, you gotta do MORE than say that same redundant sentence again for those non-greencard holders, because they're doing some noble by even considering fighting for you. I've done that for Max989 by sharing my experiences with him. I've even done some correcting people's misconceptions under another alias.

Now I ask you to start this new year differently by offering further advice on how to immigrate- most of your aren't bona fide recruiters- so you can't be bound by the phrase "The US military cannot and will not assist these non-resident aliens to immigrate" as I've seen in a previous post. But of course, most of you AREN'T willing to go that extra mile because we non-resident foreigners are nothing more than a nuisance to you- we're just aliens on the other side of the fence. You just wanna file that under "NOT MY PROBLEM" as a typical conservative would.

However, this "recruiting non-greencard foreigners" measure considered by the Pentagon may be the best hope for us non-resident foreigners, without us having to wait the long unreasonable wait or forcing ourselves to find someone to marry just for a greencard. Hopefully, it will pass, so we won't have to come back to this forum to find the same belligerence and indifference that I always observe. If you people have any sense of decency, you won't respond this last post by simply cussing and denigrating me again as before, but by taking heed of what I said.

(PS Mr. Puzzled Poolee- the Philippines is NOT my country anymore. I'm a permanent immigrant in Canada now.)

quote:

Originally posted by Enssantor:
WHY are all of you doing nothing but going out of your way to make me quit?

By all means, don't quit. But if you want to make progress, either
a) get yourself a Nobel Prize and immigrate as a genius
b) get an employer who doesn't realize you just want a green card to enlist to sponsor you for a green card
c) marry an American girl who doesn't realize you just want the green card to enlist

Those are the obstacles you need to overcome. There's no other way. The DoS won't suddenly contact you because they've read your posts and offer you a top secret Ninja job because they believe you're a real patriot.

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Others have come across other obstacles. I just have the obstacle of citizenship and your unreasonable immigration laws to cross.

The US still has some of the most open immigration laws in the world. And enlisting as a permanent resident is certainly the laxest criteria I've ever heard of. Elsewhere it's citizen or bust (unless you're Commonwealth).

quote:

I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but from what I've observed, I've done more to help non-greencard holders on this forum on their way to find a way to enlistment

There is no secret path to non-citizen enlistment. The green card criteria are spelled out in crayon for every retard to read. That's all there's to it. Stop pretending there's more, because that's all in your head.

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Those who don't have the coveted "greencards" have just as much the right to know the way to enlistment and most of your simply saying "YOU CANNOT ENLIST UNLESS YOU HAVE US CITIZENSHIP OR A GREENCARD" is just simply stating the rules, NOT helping them at all.

How CAN they help? "Hey, I've got a sister who's single"?

quote:

You've gotta take into to account their situations if you wanna help them. For those who live overseas, you gotta tell how they can immigrate to the US beyond just getting a tourist visa or that so-called "greencard lottery" which many country's citizens aren't qualified for.

No one has to tell anyone anything. There are other forums for that. They're usually called something like "immigrate to America".

quote:

For those who are already there or planning to go there in the US on temporary visas such as student, tourist and work permit visas, you gotta tell them how they can find a way to get a greencard.

How many times do the green card criteria have to be posted here for people to get it?

quote:

And for the umpteenth time, as I've seen in previous posts, the agency dealing with is called US CITIZENSHIP AND IMMIGRATION SERVICES (USCIS), NOT INS as it was called before.

Huh? Who cares? It's just a name. Everyone knows what people who write INS mean. What's the point, man?

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But of course most of what I've seen is the same redundant sign "You cannot enlist unless you have a greencard" in the responses.

It's not redundant, it's reality!!!!

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You want me to go away, you gotta do MORE than say that same redundant sentence again for those non-greencard holders, because they're doing some noble by even considering fighting for you.

Oh, pardon me. Of course, how could I forget? You're really noble. Here, let me give you a big hug for all your nobility. Tell you what, I'm going to invest your money. No, no, don't ask, just give me all your money and I'll invest it for you in S&P 500 funds. What? You don't want me to? I'm not allowed to? Oh, c'mon. I'm trying to help you, man! I'm being noble! Who gives a damn that it's all in my head, right?

Enssantor, you can't just get stuff because you want it and think it's right. You need to go through the right channels. This isn't the right channel. Do us a favor and channel all your indignation into hatred of America and join an Al-Qaeda cell. I hear they'll recruit anyone.

quote:

I've done that for Max989 by sharing my experiences with him. I've even done some correcting people's misconceptions under another alias.

Would that be under the name "Anthony Bauwens", a man who claims to have served in the US Army in the 70's, but can't string a sentence together? This is the pm got from your alias

quote:

Youre mail keeps going in my mail box .I read that PoST. The USA was started by Indians and Immigrants. Tdudy youre boobs a kid can tell you that..check ---First American.In youre local bell. Public library!!!!!

Okay, now you're just bona fida nuts. Whoever that guy is, he sure can't string a coherent sentence together. I wonder where his IP originates from? Canada, perhaps?

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You just wanna file that under "NOT MY PROBLEM" as a typical conservative would.

Well--never mind. Just cookoo, cookoo, cookoo...

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However, this "recruiting non-greencard foreigners" measure considered by the Pentagon may be the best hope for us non-resident foreigners, without us having to wait the long unreasonable wait or forcing ourselves to find someone to marry just for a greencard.

Great for you if it happens. A sign of the decay of American society if it does, too. But for the last time, you have no right to live in the USA just because you want to. Deal with it.

quote:

If you people have any sense of decency, you won't respond this last post by simply cussing and denigrating me again as before, but by taking heed of what I said.

Well, I pretty much deconstructed every single sentence of yours. But I presume you'll still say it was all "cussing and denigrating". Because you're just a leeeeetle bit nuts.

quote:

(PS Mr. Puzzled Poolee- the Philippines is NOT my country anymore. I'm a permanent immigrant in Canada now.)

Great for you. I'd rather be in Canada, to be honest, because I prefer the regimental system. Join Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry. Fantastic outfit. Their record in Afghanistan is absolutely awesome. Full respect from everyone who's ever worked with them, even USSOF. Get your citizenship and join them. You won't regret it. There's another option for you. Now be quiet and pursue one of the many avenues I've laid out for you instead of procrastinating. To be honest, you really don't sound like the military type, and I doubt you could handle the environment with your strange mind. But I've laid it out for you. And that's me signing off from this discussion. Because it's really quite pointless.

quote:

Enssantor, you can't just get stuff because you want it and think it's right. You need to go through the right channels. This isn't the right channel. Do us a favor and channel all your indignation into hatred of America and join an Al-Qaeda cell. I hear they'll recruit anyone.

Puzzled Poolee- you really are a total prick for saying this. Screw you. I'm against terrorists but apparently you classify me as potential one just because of a difference of opinion.

quote:

Would that be under the name "Anthony Bauwens", a man who claims to have served in the US Army in the 70's, but can't string a sentence together? This is the pm got from your alias

My other alias is "SideStraddleHopper" not Anthony Bauwens. I would never claim something I didn't experience, like a poser.

quote:

Well--never mind. Just cookoo, cookoo, cookoo...

See what I mean? Typical conservative way of thinking- Ayn Rand, Adam Smith- screw the weak so the winners can take all- thank God America has liberals with compassion to oppose you.

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To be honest, you really don't sound like the military type, and I doubt you could handle the environment with your strange mind

Excuse me? I used to be a JROTC cadet at a US military high school in Southern California (you figure out where). I'm fully aware of the bullshit and mind games that can happen in boot camp. And I'm not just talking about blanket parties or quarterdecking. I don't claim to be a real soldier yet, but I am aware of what I will face in the US military and will be prepared for it. I miss the camaraderie of my cadet days, which gives me an inkling of what camaraderie in the real military is like.

Strange Mind? Excuse me? You're the one who's narrow-minded- the fact you haven't encountered people with opinons like mine before. And I've lived in the US for 6 years- so you're the one who needs to go out more and be open-minded to different, varying opinions.

Not everyone in the miltiary is an automaton that follows orders- one can have their own opinion, though they can usually be discreet about it. General Hal Moore, formerly LTC Moore of who wrote "We Were Soldiers Once and Young" once said, "One of the defining facets of loyalty (to one's unit/commander) is the duty to disagree if the order is unreasonable or unlawful" (I am paraphrasing, but that's how I remember it).

Thus in the US military, not everyone thinks like "I WANNA KILL, KILL" as the "environment" you said I would not stand. Past boot camp, it's a very professional institution, with bonds of brotherhood and unit loyalties that are forged in either battle or during lifetimes of peacetime service. My point is, not everyone thinks in the military the way you say they do- there's a diversity of thought in there, though it may be hidden- West Point cadets are not idiots, for example- they'd have to be quite sharp in order to graduate-and many are given classes in subjects,such as philosophy and the ethics of war, which give rise to alternate opinions that differ greatly from the mainstream. Diversity of thought is good and healthy for an institution that defends democracy. And don't try to counter by using that movie quote of Gene Hackman "We're here to defend democracy, not to practice it"- that's why America hasn't had military coup against the gov.t in all its history because it is a force bounded by constitutional laws in a democratic nation-state.

And not everyone in the military or used to be in the military is a conservative. Take General Wesley Clarke, for example, who ran in the Democratic Presidential Primary back in 2004. Take former US Marine Lieutenant, prominent author, former SECNAV and now Senator James Webb, who himself is a liberal. Take that Army Reserve Officer's Association at this convention who thanked Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton for her
support for veteran's benefits and for opposing continuing the war in Iraq. Yet another example is ex-LTCol. Tammy Duckworth who ran for Congress on the liberal/Democratic side- and she's an Iraq veteran and double amputee! I could go on and on with this list.

Come on, Puzzled Poolee- don't tell me that you can't tolerate such diversity of thought in the military or from someone like me- YOU REALLY ARE PUZZLED.

Now, take heed of what I said earlier and start giving these non-greencard holders more advice that the simple, redundant sentence "YOU CANNOT JOIN UNLESS YOU ARE A US CITIZEN, OR HAVE A GREENCARD".

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Enssantor,

Seriously, if you somehow enlist, then good for you, man. Send us a postcard when you do.
Until then, shush.

You'd probably like to know that my own green card is a shiny little thing, cream on the front and green on the back. It feels like velvet, and smells of roses. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My ugly mug is imprinted on it, as are my vital statistics. Every night I put it under my pillow and sleep all the better for it. When I have sex, it glows orange and increases my sperm count. Beautiful American women come up to me and ask to see it, knowing full well that men with such cards are known to boast manhoods second only to US citizens itself. When I walk into recruiting offices, Sergeants hail me with a pleasant, "I'm glad you're not one of those losers who don't have that lovely little card and come here anyway". When I go to my temple, my Rabbi congratulates me on the perputual safety from oppression that is guaranteed by this card. When I join my fellow Americans and permanent residents at our weekly conservative conspiracy meetings, it gets me a free pint of Guinness at the bar. When I walk, it makes me stand taller. When I jump, it makes me jump farther. When I read unintentionally hilarious posts on the internet, it makes me chuckle harder. And best of all, you don't have one .

BTW, you cannot join unless you are a US citizen or have a green card.

Have a nice day, boy.

quote:

Originally posted by PuzzledPoolee:
Seriously, if you somehow enlist, then good for you, man. Send us a postcard when you do.
Until then, shush.

You'd probably like to know that my own green card is a shiny little thing, cream on the front and green on the back. It feels like velvet, and smells of roses. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My ugly mug is imprinted on it, as are my vital statistics. Every night I put it under my pillow and sleep all the better for it. When I have sex, it glows orange and increases my sperm count. Beautiful American women come up to me and ask to see it, knowing full well that men with such cards are known to boast manhoods second only to US citizens itself. When I walk into recruiting offices, Sergeants hail me with a pleasant, "I'm glad you're not one of those losers who don't have that lovely little card and come here anyway". When I go to my temple, my Rabbi congratulates me on the perputual safety from oppression that is guaranteed by this card. When I join my fellow Americans and permanent residents at our weekly conservative conspiracy meetings, it gets me a free pint of Guinness at the bar. When I walk, it makes me stand taller. When I jump, it makes me jump farther. When I read unintentionally hilarious posts on the internet, it makes me chuckle harder. And best of all, you don't have one .

BTW, you cannot join unless you are a US citizen or have a green card.

Have a nice day, boy.

Rubbing it in my face. What an immature way to answer my argument- you didn't even read my last post or take into account what I said and "deconstruct" it as you did the last one. You have no decency.

You seem to be familiar with Commonwealth militaries such as the Canadian Forces, since you're familiar obviously with the PPLI Regiment. Still, you said I'm "procrastinating"- how can I be procrastinating if I have 3 years for wait for Canadian citizenship? Hmmm? Are a Tory from Britain who can't stand the fact that the growing number of Brits can't stand Bush and Blair and have started showing preference for the Liberals and Labor? Good God, man! Is that why you immigrated to America to be with your fellow conservatives?

I am only biding my time and workiing a job I don't really like just to be practical while I wait. Still, when the time comes, I will apply to the Canadian Forces or possibly consider the British or Australian Armies since people from other Commonweath countries are allowed to join each others' militaries.

Your last reply just proves your inability to rationally look me in the eye and try to disprove my argument without having to resort to character attacks like "I have one, you don't". People like you- those who believe in privilieges, not rights- are the reason why the weak and the poor are continually stepped on in this so-called modern, global society.

Now you've insulted me! This is a serious, serious matter. Alas, the voices in my head tell me you're nuts. What was your argument again?

quote:

Originally posted by PuzzledPoolee:
Now you've insulted me! This is a serious, serious matter. Alas, the voices in my head tell me you're nuts. What was your argument again?

Stop mocking me and respond to my argument.

quote:

Originally posted by Enssantor:
Stop mocking me and respond to my argument.

Which is?

quote:

Originally posted by PuzzledPoolee:

quote:

Originally posted by Enssantor:
Stop mocking me and respond to my argument.

Which is?

That's why you read the previous posts- especially the one . Get it? READ. Especially my second response to you.

If that's too hard, lemme help...

1.)Go to the scroll bar and push the mouse button up
2.) Look for the appropriate post
3.) Eat **** and...D**!

Please respond to my post if you have any sense of decency in that piece of flesh you call a brain...

Seriously, I just don't get your argument. I must be too stupid. Let me rub my green card and see if it will reveal your divine words unto me. Stand by.

quote:

Originally posted by PuzzledPoolee:
Seriously, I just don't get your argument. I must be too stupid. Let me rub my green card and see if it will reveal your divine words unto me. Stand by.

For the technologically challenged such as yourself:

Here it is again, So read:

quote:

Enssantor, you can't just get stuff because you want it and think it's right. You need to go through the right channels. This isn't the right channel. Do us a favor and channel all your indignation into hatred of America and join an Al-Qaeda cell. I hear they'll recruit anyone.

Puzzled Poolee- you really are a total prick for saying this. Screw you. I'm against terrorists but apparently you classify me as potential one just because of a difference of opinion.

quote:

Would that be under the name "Anthony Bauwens", a man who claims to have served in the US Army in the 70's, but can't string a sentence together? This is the pm got from your alias

My other alias is "SideStraddleHopper" not Anthony Bauwens. I would never claim something I didn't experience, like a poser.

quote:

Well--never mind. Just cookoo, cookoo, cookoo...

See what I mean? Typical conservative way of thinking- Ayn Rand, Adam Smith- screw the weak so the winners can take all- thank God America has liberals with compassion to oppose you.

quote:

To be honest, you really don't sound like the military type, and I doubt you could handle the environment with your strange mind

Excuse me? I used to be a JROTC cadet at a US military high school in Southern California (you figure out where). I'm fully aware of the bullshit and mind games that can happen in boot camp. And I'm not just talking about blanket parties or quarterdecking. I don't claim to be a real soldier yet, but I am aware of what I will face in the US military and will be prepared for it. I miss the camaraderie of my cadet days, which gives me an inkling of what camaraderie in the real military is like.

Strange Mind? Excuse me? You're the one who's narrow-minded- the fact you haven't encountered people with opinons like mine before. And I've lived in the US for 6 years- so you're the one who needs to go out more and be open-minded to different, varying opinions.

Not everyone in the miltiary is an automaton that follows orders- one can have their own opinion, though they can usually be discreet about it. General Hal Moore, formerly LTC Moore of who wrote "We Were Soldiers Once and Young" once said, "One of the defining facets of loyalty (to one's unit/commander) is the duty to disagree if the order is unreasonable or unlawful" (I am paraphrasing, but that's how I remember it).

Thus in the US military, not everyone thinks like "I WANNA KILL, KILL" as the "environment" you said I would not stand. Past boot camp, it's a very professional institution, with bonds of brotherhood and unit loyalties that are forged in either battle or during lifetimes of peacetime service. My point is, not everyone thinks in the military the way you say they do- there's a diversity of thought in there, though it may be hidden- West Point cadets are not idiots, for example- they'd have to be quite sharp in order to graduate-and many are given classes in subjects,such as philosophy and the ethics of war, which give rise to alternate opinions that differ greatly from the mainstream. Diversity of thought is good and healthy for an institution that defends democracy. And don't try to counter by using that movie quote of Gene Hackman "We're here to defend democracy, not to practice it"- that's why America hasn't had military coup against the gov.t in all its history because it is a force bounded by constitutional laws in a democratic nation-state.

And not everyone in the military or used to be in the military is a conservative. Take General Wesley Clarke, for example, who ran in the Democratic Presidential Primary back in 2004. Take former US Marine Lieutenant, prominent author, former SECNAV and now Senator James Webb, who himself is a liberal. Take that Army Reserve Officer's Association at this convention who thanked Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton for her
support for veteran's benefits and for opposing continuing the war in Iraq. Yet another example is ex-LTCol. Tammy Duckworth who ran for Congress on the liberal/Democratic side- and she's an Iraq veteran and double amputee! I could go on and on with this list.

Come on, Puzzled Poolee- don't tell me that you can't tolerate such diversity of thought in the military or from someone like me- YOU REALLY ARE PUZZLED.

Now, take heed of what I said earlier and start giving these non-greencard holders more advice than the simple, redundant sentence "YOU CANNOT JOIN UNLESS YOU ARE A US CITIZEN, OR HAVE A GREENCARD".

Oh wait, the idiot “conservative” gets it! I’m so glad that I’m currently bedridden and get to write a silly response to your silly arguments while my wife and her parents enjoy a nice meal at the Olive Garden. Let’s take a look at your history here:

So, you shouted down others for flogging one dead horse.

quote:

Originally posted by Enssantor:
Look, READ all the other previous posts before posting. This question has come several times already.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE A US COLLEGE DEGREE AND US CITIZENSHIP, YOU CAN'T BECOME A COMMISSIONED OFFICER IN THE US MILITARY.

But you start bashing another

quote:

America's immigration laws need an overhaul. The image of America as an immigrant nation like that in the early 20th century is not necessarily true anymore, since only nurses, computer engineers,certain professionals such as doctors as well as spouses of US citizens are the only categories of people who get greencards easily nowadays.

If you ever watched the movie "Gangs of New York" and saw those hordes of Irish immigrants in the 1860s who stepped off the boat in Ellis Island only to be drafted and sent to the front during the Civil War. Well obviously, the military doesn't do that anymore.

Even though already answered that issue yourself before.

quote:

That's why the US should consider having its own Foreign Legion. But of course US taxpayers won't pay for it and of course there's the loyalty issue regarding foreigners in such a US Foreign Legion.

What qualifies you to decide that America needs to loosen its immigration laws? We already have 10 million Mexicans who fill the demand for low-skilled labor. Maybe there’s a reason why green cards aren’t just handed out to anyone. You just happen not to be the kind of highly-educated people that are in demand. The US is same as any other country – Canada, Germany, UK, etc. – in wanting to attract high-skilled labor. That’s what green cards are for. For lower level stuff, the US has enough of its own graduates. You know, people with US liberal arts degrees that are worth jack in places like the UK.

quote:

Many people are willing to fight for America and leap at the chance for a supposedly better life in America

So what! I want a Ferrari, and I won’t get it until I earn the money for it. I won’t just get one because I want it. Your “argument” boils down to this: “People like me should be allowed to join the US military because we want to.” That’s not an argument, merely a statement of desire.

And what’s with these crazy statements about conservatives?

quote:

If only your gun-toting, ultra-nativist conservatives and pro-labor liberal politicians stop making it so hard with many of your immigration laws designed to keep people out, especially those of us who have been here in the US for years working legally, barely surviving from work permit to work permit, only to find out our adoptive country wants to make it harder for us to become one of their own.

quote:

From your quote "it is priviliege to serve to serve in the miltiary you're obviously a Republican". You believe in equality of means/ opportunnity (winners take all, losers nothing) while Liberals/believe in equality of ends/rights. I mean no offence I am just dissecting that quote because I am tired of hearing it.

What’s going on, here? First of all, you definitely started all the ad-hominem attacks. Second of all, the US is not your adoptive country. You want to stay here, that’s all. Third, the world isn’t black and white, young man. You make very broad statements that reflect your wishes rather than reality. No one in the mainstream US says we should open our borders to anyone. Tell me one state where that’s the case. C’mon, plenty of “liberal” governments out there. Open immigration in Brazil? Holland? C’mon, where are those fantasy liberals you write about? You’re just imagining there are masses of people out there who share your view that immigration is a right. No one ever said it was but you.

And what a lovely view of American society you have:

quote:

If you truly believe in EQUAL OPPORTUNNITY, then you would give the same opportunnity to an idealistic non-resident, from say, Mexico, or Ghana, who was educated in the States and who is obviously more qualified to be a soldier than many of your natural-born citizens who are high-school dropouts like some hicks from some Lousianna or North Carolina bogs. Both should have a chance to try, it's just a shame that many who are less qualified have that chance

Finally, here’s the nail in your argument’s coffin that you’ve been demanding: The recruiting crisis is temporary and a natural byproduct of a volunteer force. It’s made a lot worse because of Iraq. American people aren’t as dumb as you think. They know crap when they smell it. Of course many people who are worried won’t join right now. We have a lot of cultural issues with the coastal upper-middle classes not joining, but that’s something we need to sort out rather than find substitutes for these people. Add to that the fact that military compensation is rather poor, which makes it unattractive for many who can get a better wage elsewhere. The answers to all these problems are self-explanatory. Bringing in foreigners would be a horrible step in the wrong direction. Instead of sorting out the mess, we’d just put it to one side.

Bottom line: a foreign legion would fail to address the problems in our society that cause any recruiting shortfalls. Basta.


And what’s with the “the only thing that differentiates me arguments”? Ad nauseam! C’mon, the whole universe is about things that differentiate us. The only thing that differentiates me from a woman is damn chromosome.

quote:

You have the IMPERTINENCE to SAY THAT COUNTRY isn't YOURS when I've spent so much time in your country during my student visa years and tried to understand as much as I can

Again, what’s with stuff like that? It speaks for itself.


I know you really care about this issue. And you’ve read up on all the military regs, foreign militaries, etc. Great google skills. But the truth is, no one cares. Nobody cares one bit. Why don’t you try Airsoft or paintballing? You might find kindred spirits there.

I’ll leave you with your own words,

quote:

However, you have to think realistically if you want to have a military career. Is it really worth all this time and effort and money just to become just an enlisted man in that military? (college in the US is NOT Cheap- you're not eligible for student loans there cause you're not a US citizen).

God, I’ve written all this tripe, and the damn wife still hasn’t shown up with my takeout. Damn you, world, I deserve my takeout spaghetti because I have seen spaghetti and I want it!



Isn't she cute?

quote:

Great google skills. But the truth is, no one cares. Nobody cares one bit.

You make your own assumptions about the world that the world is full of despicable, individualistic, apathetic people like you- not everyone is the same. There are people out there with compassion in spite of all the conflicts and profit-seeking selfishness out there. Just because you're not one of them doesn't make it any less true.

You're not gonna make me give up.

quote:

C’mon, where are those fantasy liberals you write about? You’re just imagining there are masses of people out there who share your view that immigration is a right. No one ever said it was but you.

Just as I thought- you didn't read the whole thing. Read this section again. These "Fantasy Liberals" that you say don't exist actually do exist.

quote:

Thus in the US military, not everyone thinks like "I WANNA KILL, KILL" as the "environment" you said I would not stand. Past boot camp, it's a very professional institution, with bonds of brotherhood and unit loyalties that are forged in either battle or during lifetimes of peacetime service. My point is, not everyone thinks in the military the way you say they do- there's a diversity of thought in there, though it may be hidden- West Point cadets are not idiots, for example- they'd have to be quite sharp in order to graduate-and many are given classes in subjects,such as philosophy and the ethics of war, which give rise to alternate opinions that differ greatly from the mainstream. Diversity of thought is good and healthy for an institution that defends democracy. And don't try to counter by using that movie quote of Gene Hackman "We're here to defend democracy, not to practice it"- that's why America hasn't had military coup against the gov.t in all its history because it is a force bounded by constitutional laws in a democratic nation-state.

And not everyone in the military or used to be in the military is a conservative. Take General Wesley Clarke, for example, who ran in the Democratic Presidential Primary back in 2004. Take former US Marine Lieutenant, prominent author, former SECNAV and now Senator James Webb, who himself is a liberal. Take that Army Reserve Officer's Association at this convention who thanked Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton for her
support for veteran's benefits and for opposing continuing the war in Iraq. Yet another example is ex-LTCol. Tammy Duckworth who ran for Congress on the liberal/Democratic side- and she's an Iraq veteran and double amputee! I could go on and on with this list.

Then you have other Liberals like US Pres. Wilson (who was for the League of Nations, US Presidents JFK and LBJ (whose presidencies eventually saw the passing of the Civil Rights Act in 1964 and they also attempted to make a national health care system for all Americans, but to no avail), as well as Pres. FDR whose "New Deal" helped bring America out of the Great Depression. Even if that is way history simply portrays them, they are role models for genuine liberals out there to fight for and be determined to support causes that you conservatives see as a waste of time. Not everyone is apathetic or a profit-seeking individualist. There are compassionate people out there.

My lord, you really are serious, aren't you. For the rest of us, this is just harmless hilarity, but you actually believe all this crap. You are mentally just a little bit off whack old boy, and so I'm definitely saying farewell this time.

quote:

Originally posted by PuzzledPoolee:
My lord, you really are serious, aren't you? For the rest of us, this is just harmless hilarity, but you actually believe all this crap. You are mentally just a little bit off whack old boy, and so I'm definitely saying farewell this time.

You just refuse to understand. Harmless hilarity? I am appalled that the world actually does have people as heartless as you, but I've encountered your type before- and you won't make me give up.

quote:

Originally posted by Enssantor:
You just refuse to understand. Harmless hilarity? I am appalled taht the world actually does have people as heartless as you, but I've encountered your type before- and you won't make me give up.

Cookoo. Cookoo. Cookoo.

quote:

Originally posted by PuzzledPoolee:

quote:

Originally posted by Enssantor:
You just refuse to understand. Harmless hilarity? I am appalled taht the world actually does have people as heartless as you, but I've encountered your type before- and you won't make me give up.

Cookoo. Cookoo. Cookoo.

Sadistic, individualistic prick.

quote:

Originally posted by Enssantor:
Sadistic, individualistic prick.

and you can bloody well END the name calling right now mister, or by gawd I will use my authority to send you to time out. This thread is NOT for you to spout off your diatribes about how rotten you think the US for not bending over backwards and just handing you a Green card on a silver platter all wrapped up in a bow. You wanna gripe about it, go on over to P/CP.

For the life of me I cannot understand why you think the US needs to make an exception just for you. Frankly, we DO NOT NEED to give everybody who has a passing fancy a ticket in. We have plenty of immigrants, both legal and otherwise. You are no more deserving of a shot at Legal status and a chance at enlisting than any other person who comes into this thread asking about hwo to do so.

Poolie: leave it alone, let it end. you've said your piece.

quote:

Originally posted by Mrsjvb:
Poolie: leave it alone, let it end. you've said your piece.

I'm sorry for carrying it so far, Mrsjvb. Everytime I meant to quit, it felt like he was about to unleash another gem.

quote:

For the life of me I cannot understand why you think the US needs to make an exception just for you. Frankly, we DO NOT NEED to give everybody who has a passing fancy a ticket in. We have plenty of immigrants, both legal and otherwise. You are no more deserving of a shot at Legal status and a chance at enlisting than any other person who comes into this thread asking about hwo to do so.

Moderator,

I just want to make something very CLEAR: I never said "I wanted the US make an exception just for me". I never said I am MORE deserving than any other non-citizen who comes to this forum- I may have said I more deserving than some of your citizens who are underqualified otherwise since I spent so much time studying in your country, but nothing more.

I apologize for the name-calling, but not my arguments.

We'll see if this measure to enlist non-greencard foreigners ever comes to fruit. And whether or not it will strengthen or weaken America as some absurdly say.

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,121278,00.html?wh=news

Happy New Years to all.

quote:

Frankly, we DO NOT NEED to give everybody who has a passing fancy a ticket in.

I've always wanted to join your military since I was a kid. That's why I had my parents send me to that military high school in Southern California. It tells you not only of how much I once looked up to you, but of the depth of my disappointment. And you just plainly describe it as a "passing fancy". How ironic.

This thread was supposed to have stopped...

Thanks, Dawnmarie - that was getting rather tiring.

Marc/Enssantor - I have to admire your passion, if not your need to pigeonhole people by their political ideology. If you go too far left you'll meet someone who's gone too far right... Still, hearing how badly you want to serve, for a country you weren't born to, makes me wish I could adopt you and sponsor your trip to the recruiter myself... then you could take care of me in my old age - which is not far off now.

Regards,
'Doc'

USMCR '86-'92, 0844, 0341
Active Army '92-'01, 91B, 91W
TXARNG '01-Now, 91W, 31B, 68W

YES, I just completed 20 years' service
NO, I don't collect any $ until I turn 60

Doc,

Thanks for your kind remarks, and I regret that this forum would not allow to say my views when they allow heartless people to say comments like this:

Posted by Puzzled Poolee:

quote:

You'd probably like to know that my own green card is a shiny little thing, cream on the front and green on the back. It feels like velvet, and smells of roses. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My ugly mug is imprinted on it, as are my vital statistics. Every night I put it under my pillow and sleep all the better for it. When I have sex, it glows orange and increases my sperm count. Beautiful American women come up to me and ask to see it, knowing full well that men with such cards are known to boast manhoods second only to US citizens itself. When I walk into recruiting offices, Sergeants hail me with a pleasant, "I'm glad you're not one of those losers who don't have that lovely little card and come here anyway". When I go to my temple, my Rabbi congratulates me on the perputual safety from oppression that is guaranteed by this card. When I join my fellow Americans and permanent residents at our weekly conservative conspiracy meetings, it gets me a free pint of Guinness at the bar. When I walk, it makes me stand taller. When I jump, it makes me jump farther. When I read unintentionally hilarious posts on the internet, it makes me chuckle harder. And best of all, you don't have one .

Anyways, it's a shame that this forum has shown itself to have a bias, since they tolerate people such as this who find sadistic pleasure on stepping on the weak and rubbing in people's faces what they dont' have.

I am not the only one who wants to join the US military. Hundreds, if not thousands of young people across the world, in whatever occupation, all look up to your military.

Most look up to it because it is world's most powerful technologically and strategically. (though China is the world's largest numerically).

However, some look up to it more because we are familiar with its history, since in recent history the American soldier has viewed as a harbringer of justice, freedom and democracy. The greatest example is in World War II in the Allies' winning campaigns from 1944-45 onwards, where Americans on an Army Sherman tank greeted by Jews in German concentration camps would just as welcome as Marines and GIs welcomed by Filipino Guerrilas at Leyte Beach in the Philippines. The same could be said for the Berlin Airlift and the Korean War to a limited extent- as harbingers of relief and freedom. One can also say that to a limited extent about America's own Civil War, because of its role in helping end slavery in the Southern States and the Army's eventual raising of "colored" regiments like the 54th Mass. to fight alongside the other Union units.

Vietnam can be looked at in the context in the more of an America acting in terms of nation-state self-interest in a Cold War situation; the same can be said of America during the Spanish-American War and during the Mexican American War of the 1840s. Probably the same for Panama and Grenada as well. It was a Cold War context or self-interested nation context where the GIs were not generally welcome by the populations in those nations (esp. Vietnam)

But still, the First Gulf War- where America and a bigger UN-backed coalition chased Saddam's occupation force out of Kuwait, was a revival of that ideal of the US soldier as the liberator, in the name of world freedom, just like their WW2, Korean and Civil War predecessors.

That is the American military that most non-citizens my age came to know as we came of age in the 1990s. An American military that was willing to go on humanitarian peacekeeping missions like those in Somalia, Bosnia and Haiti and Kosovo, all under liberal presidents like Pres. Clinton.

I see the US military today as no different since they liberated Iraq from Saddam in 2003 and are staying the course with this "occupation" to make sure that the nation remains stable and govt. institutions and well-trained Iraqi Army are in place, not only for the Iraqi people's own sake, but for regional stability. Some more radical liberals will say that America liberated Iraq for the sake of oil and self-interest, but I say the side benefit of liberating the Iraqi people weighs far more than that.

In spite of the scandals that plagued the US military at Abu Ghraib and Haditha, I still respect the institution, since the US military as a whole is not like those individuals in those scandals. Retired Marine Colonel and Congressman Murtha or some other Congressman said "that's not the way American soldiers are supposed to act" and I agree. To me, the American soldier will remain as a liberating warrior who stands for justice and freedom.

Some of you at this forum will say I am just deluding myself, like our Puzzled Pool player from England (I presume). They're entitled to their own twisted opinions. But that ideal of the American soldier throughout recent history is why the more idealistic of us non-resident citizens want to join.

Enssantor

PS. here's a little tribute to your GIs I made personally before I leave this forum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNbNoRzacN4

This message has been edited. Last edited by: PO1Kalbach,

Not sure why this forum degenerated into a Point/Counterpoint discussion,but it ends here. The appropriate parties have been suspended for violation of TOS.

The forum topic is stated. Bottom line for non-US citizens, have a Green Card or be a US citizen to join the United States Military. This forum has run it's course and does have great info for people to read. So I'm closing it. CPO Kalbach