Mr. Zhao Tian Ke,

美国人不会让没有greencard 或公民身份的人参加美国军事。明白或不清楚? 其外, 美国看见人民解放军作为未来威胁。

(Translation: The US military doesn't allow people without a greencard or US citizenship to join the US miltiary. Besides, the US military may see the Chinese People's Liberation Army as a future threat)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Enssantor,

Sorry for not viewing your profile. Are you really a US army 2nd Lieutenant that went back to China? Your picture seems to suggest that. Or are you just a Chinese citizen who's just really into the US military? Please enlighten us- this is confusing.

quote:

Originally posted by Enssantor:
Your picture seems to suggest that.

But his grammar suggests otherwise.

Zhaotianke - you could always become a citizen first and then try joining.

Please don't interpret this as looking down upon anyone whose English skills are not that good, but I assume there are a still a few minority members in the US military who don't have very good English.

I just assume that because of there are commercials in Spanish for each of the US services, such as "Yo Soy El Army" commercial depicting Puerto Rican Troops crewing an Army-operated transport ship.

This is why I was confused about Zhao Tian Ke's origin because of his profile picture and because he happened to have two airborne jump wings on his profile. But then again, it appears he didn't really earn those wings and probaby got those BDUs he's wearing at some surplus store in mainland China (yes there are such stores), I studied there for a year). So he's nothing more than a "big wannabee"(probably not that different from a lot of us in this forum who are foreigners).

What if my greencard expires in one yaer? Is this enough time for me to join?

...I read the link for non-us citizens.
Ok, I served 2 years in the German Army... but i´m really interested if i could join US Military Forces!?

I wonder if this is possible anyhow?

quote:

Originally posted by pj81:
...I read the link for non-us citizens.
Ok, I served 2 years in the German Army... but i´m really interested if i could join US Military Forces!?

I wonder if this is possible anyhow?

If you are not under any contract (dunno if they even check) with the German military and have a Green Card then you're eligible to join. Assuming you meet other qualifications...

quote:

Originally posted by jr1415:
What if my greencard expires in one yaer? Is this enough time for me to join?

I read somewhere (don't remember where) that you need to have enough time (I guess the minimum is two years) left in order to join.

Hi my boyfriend is thinking of joinin the navy, but we have two kids and are kind of worried about the tours that the salior takes. Is there anyway of knowing around how many there will be?

quote:

Originally posted by zephon:
Greetings,
I have no question, I've spent long hours, days and weeks exploring how can a Canadian join the U.S Military. So I know, that for me the chances are close to 0. I have no family in the States and currently live in Poland.
I am writing this as a response to Kmac1's post on the previous page. He's also a Canadian and unable to join...
I just hope someone important will see posts like this and think: "Something has to be done..."
Because it's disturbing that so many devoted, enthusiastic and qualified people who would make great soldiers, people who would exchange almost everything for the oppertunity to live and fight for the US will not be able to make their dream come true.
Let's face it, the Canadian military isn't the greatest in the world and if I want to fight people that are a threat to America, I want to do it in an army that counts.
I want to help fight those damn terrorists, risk my life and devote it to this cause. But no, I can't because of some pretty darn stupid rules...

hey ... i was in a similar situation. it isn't hopeless. you should look into the greencard lottery. i know it isn't open to canadians but there are a lot of other countries on the list that if your parents are from you can still apply.

i understand your frustrations 100%. but think about. it isn't stupid rules at all. the USA suffered a GREAT loss 9/11. they have to have these kind of rules. no exceptions. they need toi protect their own. imagine any foreign national who 'appeared' to enthusiastic about joining their military was allowed to join, ANYONE could join. you heart is in the right place but you have to think of it from a National Security point of view. how would you or anyone else be able to fight for a cause if the defenses could be ruined from within?

if you want to talk about this, or any other canadian that wishes to join, you can always msg me. i know a lot of different routes to explore if you'd like. don't give up .. you may get an break somewhere.

I have a question, lets say i have a green card and i served in my country army as volunteer and finished serving after 3years. Can i join the marines?

quote:

Originally posted by BrutalForce: Can i join the marines?

First, it is spelled with a capitol "M" for Marines. Even American civilians make that mistake.

quote:

I have a question, lets say i have a green card and i served in my country army as volunteer and finished serving after 3years.

Second, let’s just say you did all that what you mentioned above. I knew someone in my platoon, during Boot Camp, who had served in the French Foreign Legion, and I have read articles in military newspapers of Marines who have served in other foreign armed forces. I am unsure how the other branches work, but there is a good chance of joining the Marine Corps. However, if you do not have a valid green card, don't bother.

Hi all, where do non-U.S. Citizens who qualify to enlist in the USMC get sent? SC or San Diego? Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Smoth007:
Hi all, where do non-U.S. Citizens who qualify to enlist in the USMC get sent? SC or San Diego? Thanks.

That all depends where you live.

Males living East of the Mississippi, as well as all the females living on both coast, will train at Marine Corps Recruit Depot, Parris Island, South Carolina. Males living West of the Mississippi will train at, MCRD San Diego, California.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: HollywoodMarine,

So, I've been surfing the net all night long. I've been reading a bundle of posts, none fully answering the questions that's been puzzling me.

1: I'm having trouble with the way some people put this. "Get your green-card first" Obviously, this isn't easily done, or am I missing out on some various obvious facts here? I'd be much obliged to join the U.S military, but there does seem to be some problems with that, seeing as you would have to be a resident of the U.S first. None the less, could you give me directions as to where to obtain this elusive Green-Card. I've already visited this lottery site... Which was just about enough to make me commit suicide, by banging my head against a wall repeatedly.

2: I've read elsewhere that you can join the military, then get your Green-Card thrue your service, this doesn't completly make sense to me, though if true, I wouldn't miss out on this chance.

3: The best clue I've picked up on, was that some people joined the military while having a work related Green-Card, and then later, again thrue the military obtaining a permanent citizenship.

I really do hope you can help me here, seeing as I'd rather not have to resolve to joining the Danish military... Considering the fact that they couldn't possibly suck much more, if they tried. Thank you.

First what i want say to KarliC you not the only one who tries to get in US army and also not the last.

About green card lottery it takes part every last monts of year (i dont know exactly but something from october till december or from november till december) if you lucky and they will pick you, then you have to get a lot of papaer work and go for a talk with a ambassy, and if they like you you get a visa to get to US.And after that when you come to US after few weeks or more they send to you green card.

About 2 and 3, i hear to that are some recruters that can get you in and after some time you can ask for a citizenship.

What can i say good luck and keep trying

hello,
I wish to congratulate karlic for his strong remark on how to get a greencard before joining the military.This is like trying to get into the room while the keys into that room is lying under the bed in that same room.I am hoping to join the military since i was 18 but now i am already 28, and each year i played the greencard lottery without success. I hope the year i will win a greencard it will not be too late for me to join. I am a cameroonian and i wish to know the age limite for a foreigner to get enlisted in the military. thanks for any one who will help me in one way or the other to get a greencard.

quote:

Originally posted by KarliC:
I really do hope you can help me here, seeing as I'd rather not have to resolve to joining the Danish military... Considering the fact that they couldn't possibly suck much more, if they tried. Thank you.

Don't knock them down so much. Denmark has a pretty well trained and organized military. Hell, even the regular army (not to be confused with the conscripts) has a Union! I have trained with the Danes on Bornholm during BALTOPS-2005, and they are a good bunch of guys.

I understand why you want to serve in the US Armed Forces. I have had this conversation before with foreign troops from around the world. There are foreign born individuals who have been successful in enlisting in the US military. Who knows what hurdles they came across. However, the only advice I can give you is to keep applying for that Green Card.

For someone who wants to immigrate to this country and join a foreign military, I have the utmost respect for you… and good luck.

If i am not mistaken the age limit is 27

Brutal Force,

Sorry to say this, but you're wrong:

The enlistment age limits for the ff. US military services are:

active US Army- 35

US Army Reserve and National Guard-39

Active US Navy- 35

US Naval Reserve- 39

Active US Air Force-27

Air Force Reserve/Air National Guard-34

Note that that these are age limits for enlisted men. Most Officer Candidate School Programs accept non-prior service people up to age 35. You' think I'm wrong? Check this link.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlstandards.htm

Therefore , some of us below age 35-39 still have a lot of time then to get that greencard.

If only your gun-toting, ultra-nativist conservatives and pro-labor liberal politicians stop making it so hard with many of your immigration laws designed to keep people out, especially those of us who have been here in the US for years working legally, barely surviving from work permit to work permit, only to find out our adoptive country wants to make it harder for us to become one of their own.

Well sorry for my mistake, no one is perfect.

quote:

Originally posted by KarliC:
2: I've read elsewhere that you can join the military, then get your Green-Card thrue your service, this doesn't completly make sense to me, though if true, I wouldn't miss out on this chance.

I think this is something that cannot be done officially but some recruiters might try to squeeze you in this way.

quote:

again thrue the military obtaining a permanent citizenship.

It's a new law that allows those immigrants who have served to become citizens faster than other immigrants ("service guarantees citizenship!")

-Bangs head against wall-

Sooo many rules.

Well anyways, thank you everyone for ALL the help! You've been a great aid, and you've just made me more determined to fight for this, seems if ya' want something you just have to keep tryin' eh? Well again, thank you. ^^

quote:

Originally posted by KarliC:
-Bangs head against wall-

Sooo many rules.

Well anyways, thank you everyone for ALL the help! You've been a great aid, and you've just made me more determined to fight for this, seems if ya' want something you just have to keep tryin' eh? Well again, thank you. ^^

Good luck buddy! If you do decide to enlist in my Marine Corps, I will attend your recruit graduation at MCRD, San Diego. Parris Island... nah ah, that's on the other coast. I'll stick to sunny southern California.

If you have any other questions relating to the USMC, drop by the Marine Wannabe Forum. We will be happy to answer any of your questions.

quote:

Originally posted by Bushmaster78FS:

quote:

Originally posted by uconndogg:
According to my regulations says a member of another services armed forces cannot join ours.

_SSgt Tabury, Former USAF Active Duty Recruiter and Military.com Moderator_

This is absolutely correct, if you have served in any other country's military you can not "enlist" in the Air Force. Can't remember exactly what page it was but there is a table explaining eligibility required to join the Air Force, while it is not possible to become enlisted, an applicant may apply to become an officer in the Air Force provided they are US citizens, regardless of their prior foreign military experience. However, like Sgt. Tabury said it depends on where applicant is originally from. I remember seeing an interview of a former Russian officer, now 2nd Lt. in the USAF and this was on the official AF website.

quote:

The President of the United States signed legislation that supports SSgt Tabury's remarks. Simply put, any foreign national who serves in the U.S. Military will be automatically eligible for U.S. citizenship. I will try to remember to post the exact wording on this site next week.

It is the Executive Order # 13269. Any non-US citizen service member who served on or after Sept. 11 is eligible to apply for naturalization without waiting 3-5 years to fulfill residence requirements. However, if you are a student and going thru training you might as well wait before applying for citizenship because there will be a lot of address changes. Also USCIS recently waived the application fee for service members which is around $350. Once you are at your permanent duty station you can apply. If you get deployed, your service branch can send a memorandum to USCIS and your application will be transferred to Iraq, Afghanistan, Germany, Korea, wherever.... and you will be able to take the oath over there. Still it is at least 1-2 years of process for military members, especially for Army.

quote:

Once a deserter, allways a deserter.

This is bull... you need to think a little more before you speak, there are many countries on the globe that forces its citizens to do mandatory military service. I am against this. I know many people includng me who don't want to do that. You pretty much have to desert that service because it is not what you believe. Now if I want to be an American Soldier and don't want to do a mandatory crap in the country of origin, how does this make us deserters? If you only meant those who desert their active duty, I have no objections to that however people who don't want to do their mandatory service are called deserters by some and I am against that....


I think this is a very good thread and this forum needed one. Being an immigrant who is in the Army and researched about the Air Force for a while, please ask your questions here, I may be able to assist you and save some time for recruiters.

iam nigeria iwant to join usmarine i have apply since no reply, pls me iam 32 yaer. ihave serve in military, iam ready to go to iranq if iam recruiting.

I know that you have given information on green card holders or non citizens but I have not read anything yet on the policy on if you enlist and its your spouse who is just a legal resident. This is the problem that I desperetly need information on. I am thinking of enlisting and have spoken to my recurter on this. What was told to me is after I join I need to speak to a lawyer and they will help me and my husband. The only fear that I have is if I am stationed out of the country and your family is allowed to go he will still be stoppped beacuse he is not a green card holder only a legal resisdent. Please if anyone knows any information on this topic or where to get it let me know. I dont wnat to beat the topic to death but thought this was a new twist to it.

My Thanks,

ST

Your spouse is a legal resident of the US? Does your spouse have a legal Alien Resident card? Then that is a green card. As for going to an OCONUS base it can depend on where you are going to and what country your spouse is from. I know several people who have gone overseas as a legal US resident w/o a problem

The answers for the eligibility of an Asylee to join the army still unclear to me, If I was Granted Asylum (less than a year ago) and received a stamped I-94 that say "Granted Asylum and valid Indefinitely", I have been in the U.S. for over 7 years (never left the U.S.), I have a SSN, I've been paying taxes for 3 years, I went to college here and received federal financial Aid (eligible for federal aid). I want to join the air force, But I'll be 28 before I receive the actual green card. ( I took the ASVAB and scored 41 (AFQT)and passed the Credit history check but stalled their. Thank you

10796210,

Have you thought about joining the Air Force Reserve or even the Air National Guard in the state you live in? Even though the active duty USAF's maximum enlistment age is 27-28, it's 35 for the Reserve and 39 for the Air Guard in most states.

I'll leave Uconndogg to correct me if I'm wrong.

I haven't thought about it, It just seems to me that asylees were not counted for (or factored in) for eligibility for joining the U.S Army,and thier is almost no official detailes about such a non-citzen status. I was hooping that their is something I don't know that might help me. Also, despite the fact my recruiter knew my situation, I was encouraged to go ahead with the ASVAB, get some papers from USCIS (INS) and ran the credit check ... then said sorry gotta wait for the actual Green Card

First of all thank u for having the interest in joining the military especially u guys from different nationalities. From my experience there is a miscommunication between the military in my case the US ARMY and USINS which is the new name by the way Most recruiters don't understand the whole concept of greencard or how the process works or they are still trying to figure it out
For the ARMY u need to have the actual greencard to join the service and MEPS make sure u got that plastic card because there is a form that the army submits to USINS to check ur status i don't remember which form it is but if that is not cleared even having the greencard u cannot join. Getting a greencard is a long process a big hussle, time consuming and money spendingl Once u get it your pathway opens up and u can apply for citizenship through JAG in your first duty station.
Good luck for anyone who is trying in this matter and if you have any questions i would be happy to reply

HOAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH have a great day warriors

Alright i've skimmed through the 4 pages of this hoping to find the answer i'am looking for...

My question is, I've already been approved for a green card. I'm just waiting on the "final paperwork" w/e that means... My step dad works for USINS in michigan. I live in Canada, can I apply for the marines now or do I actually have to have the green card in hand? I'm going to call a recruiter in the morning. Since I was browsing around here I thought i'd still ask.

thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by xdefinitivex:
... can I apply for the marines... I'm going to call a recruiter in the morning.

You didn't need an answer from us. You answered your own question. Good to go.

I know but i figured in the meantime, if anyone had any experience with this.

All you need is the last stamp in your passport, it will be different entering the country with LPR
Well I took the short asvab on the comp and got 89, but can't join on a H4 visa

Time on non-citizens serving in the US military:

"Be it patriotism or the easier path to citizenship, the number of immigrants serving in the military has surged four-fold since 9/11, and is now about 2% of the force. There's even discussion of plucking foreign recruits for the U.S. military even before they've left their homeland."

"Non-citizens have served in the U.S. military since the War of 1812. They made up as much as 20% of the Union Army in the Civil War, and served in both world wars. These days, more of them complete their initial enlistment -- 80%, compared to 70% for citizens -- saving the Pentagon millions in training costs."

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1220519,00.html

quote:

Originally posted by 5799801:

quote:

Also, if you served in another country's military, you cannot join the US military afterwards.

Are you 100% sure of this? We have conscription here in Sweden so I have done military service. Would be nice to get a sure answer to this before I go ahead and dive into this.

Nagatory, I work in HR, we had a couple former KATUSA (korean citizens) who joined when they imagrated. Security Clearence is harder though

You can enlist in the Marine Corps or in the Army
if you are American citizens or REGISTERED ALIENS.

my only dream is to join the American forces.....iam in Uganda,,in Africa, i wonder if there's a chance.....what with all this green card restrictions, and besides, there are no recruiters here, what can one do? i will be happy for a good response.

quote:

Originally posted by 7710395:
my only dream is to join the American forces.....iam in Uganda,,in Africa, i wonder if there's a chance.....what with all this green card restrictions, and besides, there are no recruiters here, what can one do? i will be happy for a good response.

There is one way you can try.
Try to get to the U.S. with a tourist visa and
then find recruiter.I heard many stories that most of people that are non US Citizens and want
to join U.S. Army are going
in this way.If you are lucky you will be able to join American forces

quote:

Originally posted by Mikko_S:
Time on non-citizens serving in the US military:

"Be it patriotism or the easier path to citizenship, the number of immigrants serving in the military has surged four-fold since 9/11, and is now about 2% of the force. There's even discussion of plucking foreign recruits for the U.S. military even before they've left their homeland."

"Non-citizens have served in the U.S. military since the War of 1812. They made up as much as 20% of the Union Army in the Civil War, and served in both world wars. These days, more of them complete their initial enlistment -- 80%, compared to 70% for citizens -- saving the Pentagon millions in training costs."

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1220519,00.html

Very good post.Thank you.

quote:

Originally posted by 9165237:
There is one way you can try.
Try to get to the U.S. with a tourist visa and then find recruiter.I heard many stories that most of people that are non US Citizens and want to join U.S. Army are going in this way.If you are lucky you will be able to join American forces

WRONG!!! You stated you've only "heard many stories." If you have no experience in this matter, then refrain from giving false information. You are only going to set these individuals on the wrong path.

uconn states on his sticky...
RECRUITERS CAN DO NOTHING TO GET YOU A GREEN CARD AND WE HAVE NO ADVICE ON HOW TO GO ABOUT IT. CONTACT INS FOR MORE DETAILS ABOUT GREEN CARD AND CITIZENSHIP.

To enlist in the US military, you have to be

an American citizen
or

posses a Green Card

I have had individuals walk in to my office, foreign born, who wanted to enlist. My first question was always "Are you an American citizen? Then do you have a Green Card? Sorry, but I can't help you. You need a Green Card to enlist." I don't make the rules, I had to follow them.

quote:

Originally posted by 6724277:
muhammed faal
P.o.box3310
serrekunda
THE GAMBIA
WEST AFRICA
faal1234@hotmail.com Admission office US Army



Dear sir/madam,
APPLICATION FOR ADMISSION


I have the most respectable honor to apply for admission in your well-establish had military as it is recommended as one of the best military in the world.nd i really want to be one of u.s.a solger.to defend the u.s.a aginst the tororrist and against the u.s.a animies.sir my brother is in the u.s.a for more than 5 years .and my other brother is in gamany for more than 10 years.my olnly proplem is visa (the green card) i want to ceakrifies my life to defend the u.s against there animies i swear to god ..
I am a Gambian nationality. I graduated from senior and sat for the West Africa Senior School Certificate examination (W.A.S.S.C.E).
I am therefore ambitions to further the rest of my career in a nation whose military is greatly value by the world.
I am kindly looking forward to hearing from you as early as possible.

THANK YOU
Yours faithfully,
muhammed faal

GOD damn, no wonder Africa is so ****ed up ever heard of spellcheck. Learn english and then try to come here.

Just like Uconn and Hollywood Marine mentioned, you need a green card to enlist. Simply, there is no way around it.

hello,
I've been here studying for 4 years.My status is F1 visa.I can keep living and studying here under this status, if i want to.But I don't want to because I want to learn and experience real things.I really want to join in the marines.I will do anything to join in.Please, help me on this.My email is:
Amgalanbator@yahoo.com

Dude...You need a GREEN CARD. Without this card,you can't join. So, first, you need to get one.

quote:

Originally posted by 10962211:
GOD damn, no wonder Africa is so ****ed up ever heard of spellcheck. Learn english and then try to come here.

STFU Turd. Keep your retarded remarks to yourself.

I heard the news about
"they will open recruiting office in India."
Because the U.S Army failed to achieve its recruiting goal.
They trying to expand the recruitment area to get over a difficulty to recuit!

I wanna know is it true??

quote:

y will open recruiting office in India."

It would be very nice, but bad that in india, why not open in some place in europe and all EU citizens can apply.

I am interested in joining US army as an officer like you said gren card holders connot apply for officer. I have 4 year degree in Computer Scince from my country Pakistan and I getting my masters from UHCL. I have also passed the age limit as an officer which is 30. What are the chances of becoming an officer if I will join the army as enlisted?

Hello,

My father, grandfather and uncle having served in the US Army, USAF and USMC. I am born in Luxembourg and i am Luxembouger. My father was American (he has died). I remained with my mother in Luxembourg. ( he has died ). I want to go into the US Army. I want to do my native country the service exactly like my family. I have family in TX, Arlington and Dallas. What can I do? INS ? Or embassy ? Because I am Luxembourger. Can anybody please help me. I am 26 years old.

Please answer me,

Greetz

According to the website for the US embassy in London, you should be entitled to US citizenship. You would probably be better to contact the US embassy in your country and take a look at the INS website at

www.uscis.gov.

"Child born in wedlock to one U.S. citizen parent and one non-U.S. Citizen parent between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986: A child born outside of the United States to one U.S. Citizen parent and one non-U.S. Citizen parent, may be entitled to citizenship providing the U.S. Citizen parent had, prior to the birth of the child, been physically present in the United States for a period of ten years, at least five years of which were after s/he reached the age of fourteen."

quote:

Originally posted by 12263299:
Hello,

My father, grandfather and uncle having served in the US Army, USAF and USMC. I am born in Luxembourg and i am Luxembouger. My father was American (he has died). I remained with my mother in Luxembourg. ( he has died ). I want to go into the US Army. I want to do my native country the service exactly like my family. I have family in TX, Arlington and Dallas. What can I do? INS ? Or embassy ? Because I am Luxembourger. Can anybody please help me. I am 26 years old.

Please answer me,

Greetz

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kitano,

quote:

Originally posted by 12286652:
What are the chances of becoming an officer if I will join the army as enlisted?

Your chances are Zero. Enlisting with a Green Card is very possible. However, only US citizens are allowed to become officers.

What happens if you applied for a defence job(army navy air force) and was told no by another country for various reasons?

Were do i find entry requirements?
who can lead me in the right direction?

quote:

Originally posted by eggplant18:
What happens if you applied for a defence job(army navy air force) and was told no by another country for various reasons?

Were do i find entry requirements?
who can lead me in the right direction?

If you go to www.goarmy.com, you can go into the chat room with recruiters and they can answer you questions. I hope that helps.

quote:

Originally posted by 12377095:
I dont have green card...

You still need a GC kiddo. There is no going around it.

Hi, I've noticed alot of people have been asking the same questions over and over again. I, however, have done alot of research by myself but do need some insiders' advices.

Here's my situation. I've been studying in the U.S. for almost 10 years, and is expecting my Master's degree by the end of the year. Meanwhile, I have an interview pending for family-based Green Card(had my fingerprints, biometrics, and medical done already). If everything go smoothly, I shall be able to join the military early next year. I know I won't be able to join as an officer despite my academic achievement because I'm not a citizen, but I can't afford to wait that long.

So here comes my question, what is the shortest enlistment option from each service (Army, Navy,AF) that would expedite my citizenship, so I can reenlist as officer?

P.S: After an expensive college education(wasn't eligible for any kind of financial aid because I didn't have my GC yet), my family's flat out broke. In fact, they want me to get a job in the private sector after getting my Master's. But I, on the other hand, really want to join the military. The opportunities and benefits available for officer seem great and I wish to get there ASAP.

So please let me know what are the fastest ways for me to become an officer, any inputs are appreciated.

quote:

Originally posted by 7425253:
So here comes my question, what is the shortest enlistment option from each service (Army, Navy,AF) that would expedite my citizenship, so I can reenlist as officer?

There is really no fast way to go from Immigrant, to GC holder, to service man, to Citizen, to officer. On paper, it will be anywhere from 6 - 24 months to become an American citizen, while serving in the U.S. military.

I knew a female Marine Sgt. who had a degree, and was having a difficult time getting her citizenship after several years trying. Even the military has a hell of a time getting things done, due to bureaucratic "red-tape."

Good luck to you.

I happened to hear a rumour that during the nineties it was somewhat easier for a foreigner to join the US military. Is this true and if so, why have things changed since then? 9/11?

quote:

Originally posted by Mikko_S:
I happened to hear a rumour that during the nineties it was somewhat easier for a foreigner to join the US military.

You said it, it was just a rumor.

quote:

Is this true and if so, why have things changed since then? 9/11?

You answered you own question.

quote:

Originally posted by Vetinari:
If you got a permanent resident visa, you have a "green card" witch is slang for a permit to work in the USA.

How did you get your permanent residency card?

quote:

Originally posted by nike3000ca:

quote:

Originally posted by Vetinari:
If you got a permanent resident visa, you have a "green card" witch is slang for a permit to work in the USA.

How did you get your permanent residency card?

You have to apply to USCIS to become a Legal Permanent Resident. If you become a Legal Permanent Resident, you will be issued with a "green card" and you can enlist. You can take a look here to see if you meet the necessary criteria.

Hm. For some reason the 'Reply' button isn't working.

Anyhow. I'm very glad I ran across this thread before going ahead and posting it for what might be the billionth time. I just read the first post and have a couple of questions (some of which have already been addressed but hopefully I could get a more direct answer). I'm a mexican citizen with an american visa/passport and am currently on my second year of college (I'm 20 years old).

I've been very much considering to join the military when I'm done with my studies, but after some research, I came to the decision that by joining the mexican army, I won't find what I'm looking for. The US military, however, seems almost exactly encompass what I want from my considerations. I already served and finished my military service (am no longer affiliated with it) two years ago at the age of 18. I was wondering if I could just obtain a USPRC/Green Card, and join without my service with the mexican army being a complication.

Any help would be very appreciated.

quote:

Originally posted by Leon_Sakau:
Hm. For some reason the 'Reply' button isn't working.

Anyhow. I'm very glad I ran across this thread before going ahead and posting it for what might be the billionth time. I just read the first post and have a couple of questions (some of which have already been addressed but hopefully I could get a more direct answer). I'm a mexican citizen with an american visa/passport and am currently on my second year of college (I'm 20 years old).

I've been very much considering to join the military when I'm done with my studies, but after some research, I came to the decision that by joining the mexican army, I won't find what I'm looking for. The US military, however, seems almost exactly encompass what I want from my considerations. I already served and finished my military service (am no longer affiliated with it) two years ago at the age of 18. I was wondering if I could just obtain a USPRC/Green Card, and join without my service with the mexican army being a complication.

Any help would be very appreciated.

Your post is a little unclear regarding your immigration status. What do you mean by "american visa/passport"? If you're talking about a student visa, then you can't use that to enlist. If you're talking about an American passport, you're entitled to enlist since you're a citizen.

If you haven't got a green card you can't join and wanting to join the military isn't going to help you get a green card, or even speed up the process.

Is the ban on non-resident aliens enlisting in the US Military imposed by the services themselves, or is there a law someone can cite the specifically prohibits it (ie. US Code)? In other words, is this federal law, and if so, where can I reference it?

I tried to gather as much information as I could about citizinship requirements from here and the SEAL website but I'm still a bit confused. When I clicked on the link to SEALs website for citizenship, it came up with information regarding joining the Navy and residency requirements. My question is, is it possible to bypass the citizenship requiremnet if you are a legal U.S. resident?
I am 17 years old and have lived in the U.S. since I was three. I'm basically a citizen without the status. I am really interested in joining the U.S. Navy SEALs and I would appreciate a response.

quote:

Originally posted by bennyblair:
Is the ban on non-resident aliens enlisting in the US Military imposed by the services themselves, or is there a law someone can cite the specifically prohibits it (ie. US Code)? In other words, is this federal law, and if so, where can I reference it?

Does it really matter? The bottom line is, if you're not a citizen and don't have a green card you can't enlist. There is no way around it.

sorry to ask this yet again,but some people are saying yes,some no:


i am irish and contemplating joining the irish army reserve,but i would like to join the usmc in the future.

if i join the irish reserves,does this mean i can never under no circumstances join the us marines??


thank you,

-karl

quote:

Originally posted by irishwannabe:
sorry to ask this yet again,but some people are saying yes,some no:


i am irish and contemplating joining the irish army reserve,but i would like to join the usmc in the future.

if i join the irish reserves,does this mean i can never under no circumstances join the us marines??


thank you,

-karl

If you go to here, this is the official US Army chat room. You can ask the recruiters questions, and they're pretty informative.

o thats so cool!!thanks alot!!

ah nuts!

they only deal with the army in there.is there any usmc chat rooms??

quote:

Originally posted by irishwannabe:
ah nuts!

they only deal with the army in there.is there any usmc chat rooms??

I would assume that the rules regarding service in a foreign military would apply to all branches of the US military. So if the Army recruiters tell you that prior service with Oglaigh na h'Eireann isn't a problem for enlistment in the Army, it should also be ok for the Marines.

quote:

Originally posted by Kitano:

quote:

Originally posted by irishwannabe:
ah nuts!

they only deal with the army in there.is there any usmc chat rooms??

I would assume that the rules regarding service in a foreign military would apply to all branches of the US military. So if the Army recruiters tell you that prior service with Oglaigh na h'Eireann isn't a problem for enlistment in the Army, it should also be ok for the Marines.

kk cool!i checked with them,and they think its ok,but they said to check with the irish army aswell just to be sure,so im gonna do that.

thanks for the help Kitano!!(also,nice use of gaeilge there )

quote:

Originally posted by matt1106:
Hi there,
I'm pretty sure its frustarting for you with a few repeat questions...(i reckon mine is one too)
I'm moving to the US in 2 weeks on a K-1 (Fiance) visa and after the marriage i will be a conditional permanent resident, I have to apply for an Adjustment Of Status which takes around about a year to become a Permenant resident. I will have a Employment authorisation Document 3 months after the wedding (not a green card i don't think)
I was just wondering whether i would have to wait to be a US citizen (3 years after being a permenant resident) to join the military or if i could join as a permanent resident (year after marriage)?
Any info would be great
Thanks and i think ur doing a great job on here
Matt (Ex Royal Marine Commando BPT Reserve)

i thought it was 5yrs

If anyone can give me advice on the following I would much appreciate it!

I am a Canadian citizen going to college next year. There is a good chance I will be going to a US college. I know I need to be a permanent resident to enlist. Does attending school in the US on a student visa help me become a permanent resident? As I understand it, I need to be sponsored by an employer (I have no direct family in the US), so going to school would have no affect. Are there other ways I can become a permanent resident and hence enlist, other than getting a job in the US?

If I do get a job in the US in order to get permanent resident status, what are the requirements for the job? I searched the immigration site but couldn't find anything. Does it have be full-time, do I need to do it for a specific period of time... etc...

Thanks for any help you can provide!

12886794,

I used to study in the United States on a student visa/F-1 visa as well. However, I have to warn you that the road to getting a greencard is very long and Canadian citizens do not have special preference as well.

There are only 2 ways to get a greencard for your case (unless you have an immediate relative who can sponsor you)

the 2 ways are:

1.) Through marriage with a US citizen

2.) Through work sponsorship

The first option is easy and is often the fastest route to a greencard.

The second option is much harder, since the only occupations nowadays who easily get work sponsorship are nurses and computer engineers and other professions which the US has a shortage of. You can also easily get sponsorship if you have received an advanced degree in the US like a medical degree or juris doctorate/law degree and have found an employer.(BTW, Canadian citizens don't qualify in the so-called "greencard lottery", which is open to citizens of countries that haven't already sent 50,000 immmigrants to the US, so you have to get your greencard through the 2 ways stated above)

In your case, if you attend a US college and graduate, you are then given a one-year work permit called OPT or optional practical training, which allows you to work in the US for one year- but it has to be something related to the major you chose in college.

After that OPT, you must get your employer to sponsor you to renew that work permit, and if successful you will get an extension for up 3-5 years. It is only then, after you've worked a while on those work permits that you can then ask your employer to sponsor you for a greencard.Employers nowadays are wary of doing so because of all the fees they'd have to pay and requirements they'd have to satisfy the USCIS (formerly INS).Also, the wait for the actual greencard is long even after approval, so you'd have to continually get extension after extension of your work permit while you wait for your greencard.

So if you really want to join the US military, you really should be determined and be prepared to WAIT a long time if you choose the work path to a greencard. If you're going into your college in your early 20s, then I gauge you will probably won't be able to join until your 30s because of the the long process.

Now that you have the realities in mind, you should be careful about which US service you choose. Remember the age limit for US Marine Corps enlisted recruitment is 29, waiverable to 30, though the Officer Candidate school (OCS) age limit is 35, but you'd have to become a citizen first. US Air Force active enlistment is about 27 but the Air Force Reserve limit is 35.

If you really want to be realistic, choose the Army, since they raised their age limits for Army Reserve (and active?) up to 39 (some people on this board say 43). The US Naval Reserve requirement is 39 and 35 for active enlisted.

As with the Marine Corps, OCS age limit is 34-35 for all the other services as well, but you'd have to have gotten your citizenship first. In order to get your citizenship, you should have lived in the US at least 5 years AFTER getting your greencard. The time spent as a student or with a work permit DOES NOT COUNT.

I certainly hope this helps. I myself tried to find a sponsor during my OPT, but couldn't. However, I had the fortune of getting the chance to immigrate to Canada because my family immigrated there on an investor's visa, giving us automatic permanent residence/immigrant status. YOUR COUNTRY'S immigration policies are more reasonable than those of the US.

So with what I've told you in mind, why don't you consider the Canadian Forces instead? You're already a Canadian citizen I assume so you should have no problem enlisting (though the wait for the BMQ/approval call is long). As an immigrant, I have to wait 3 years in Canada before I get my citizenship, since they don't allow permanent resident immigrants there to enlist.

Believe me, I've done my research and have gone to a number of US recruiting centers only to be frustrated. I hope what I've said clears some misconceptions.

MS

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Enssantor,

Enssantor, you are a god. Amazing post... but I have many questions from it if you don't mind answering them...

(Btw, I am the poster to whom you responded. I just hadn't registered when I posted earlier.)

quote:

I used to study in the United States on a student visa/F-1 visa as well.

If you don't mind me asking, did you work in the US after school as well? If so, how long did you work without a green card before your family became permanent residents?

quote:

The second option is much harder, since the only occupations nowadays who easily get work sponsorship are nurses and computer engineers and other professions which the US has a shortage of.

Is there a list or rank of the occupations that the US has shortages of? And if I were one of these, how much easier would getting a green card be?

quote:

In your case, if you attend a US college and graduate, you are then given a one-year work permit called OPT or optional practical training, which allows you to work in the US for one year- but it has to be something related to the major you chose in college.

Is the OPT mandatory?

quote:

After that OPT, you must get your employer to sponsor you to renew that work permit, and if successful you will get an extension for up 3-5 years.

By renew that work permit, do you mean the OPT? So basically I would be renewing a work permit that doesn't allow me permanent residency?

quote:

It is only then, after you've worked a while on those work permits that you can then ask your employer to sponsor you for a greencard.Employers nowadays are wary of doing so because of all the fees they'd have to pay and requirements they'd have to satisfy the USCIS (formerly INS).

Did you do this? Why is it necessary to wait a while before asking them to sponsor you? Do most companies satisfy the requirements?

quote:

Also, the wait for the actual greencard is long even after approval, so you'd have to continually get extension after extension of your work permit while you wait for your greencard.

Any estimation of time? After approvaly, would it be a year, two years, five years, ten years, before you get your greencard (on average)?

Couple other questions:

Is it rude to ask your employer to sponsor you for a green card, and then months/years after you get it you go join the military? Are there any restrictions on how long after you get your green card that you are allowed to join the military?

Once your a permanent resident, and you enlist, do your years enlisted count toward citizenship? For example, if I get permanent resident status and immediately exist, at five years of enlistment can I then apply for citizenship?

As for why not Canadian citizens... I'm not sure yet. I'm not guaranteed to enlist in the US military if I get the chance, I'm just checking out my options. Canadian forces may very well be an avenue I choose.

quote:

Believe me, I've done my research and have gone to a number of US recruiting centers only to be frustrated. I hope what I've said clears some misconceptions.

Than you SO much. This post was extremely informative.

Max,

Here are my answers to your questions:

1.) quote:
"If you don't mind me asking, did you work in the US after school as well? If so, how long did you work without a green card before your family became permanent residents?"

Look, let me make something clear: I studied in the US for 6 years (2 years high school, 4 years college) and tried to find work in the US during my one year OPT. I found internships, but no work that would sponsor me to renew my OPT to become a full work permit, so I had to leave and go back to my country of birth, the Philippines. I waited there for 6 months before my family's immigrant VISA to Canada got approved.

2.) Is the OPT "mandatory"

The OPT is not actually mandatory, since you have to apply for it a full month before graduation. Also, your grades should be good. Still, it gives you all the privileges of a normal work permit for ONE YEAR. In that one year, you have to find an employer who is willing to sponsor you for a full work permit, also called an H-1 visa.

3.) "By renew that work permit, do you mean the OPT? So basically I would be renewing a work permit that doesn't allow me permanent residency?"

The OPT and the full work permit are NOT the same thing. OPT is only given to foreign students who graduate from college. You can get a second OPT, however, if you don't get work after that one year and decide to go back to school to get a Master's Degree. A getting a graduate/Master's Degree in the US, you are awarded another one year OPT. Even after one gets a doctorate, medical degree or law degree in the US, the foreign graduate is also eligible for an OPT year.

4.) "Did you do this? Why is it necessary to wait a while before asking them to sponsor you? Do most companies satisfy the requirements?"

No I didn't. Like I said before, I immigrated to CANADA with my family in August 2006. However, before I left the US back in 2005,I tried to find every way to stay and thus read up on the requirements on how to get sponsorship.

They're on this site:

www.uscis.gov

Have in mind the employer has to satisfy the ff. requirements if they want to sponsor you

1. fees to govt. and immigration lawyers (look it up)

2. The employer has to write to the USCIS why they have to sponsor a foreigner like you and why they can't hire a US citizen with similar qualifications

3. Before the employer can apply for you, they have to advertise for 6 months according to USCIS instructions looking for a US citizen who has similar qualifications for you-if even ONE person applies for the position- your application for the work permit extension will be rejected. The same rules apply for when the employer applies for your actual greencard.

5.) "Is it rude to ask your employer to sponsor you for a green card" - it's not rude, but I believe you must work for a while under them- at least during your full OPT year- and prove to them you're WORTH being sponsored.

BTW, don't ask the employer to sponsor you when you're INTERVIEWING before you get a job- that's an automatic turnoff. On other hand, it's against the law for interviewers to ask job seekers whether they have US citizenship or permanent residency or not.

You can look it up in this book:

"US Immigration Made Easy" by Ilona Gray from NOLO books

http://www.amazon.com/U-S-Immigration-Made-Easy-Ilona/d...4858?ie=UTF8&s=books

6.)"Are there any restrictions on how long after you get your green card that you are allowed to join the military?

There should be no restrictions on joining AFTER you get your greencard. You can join the same day you actually receive it (not just on the approval day or the day of passing the permanent residence test)

NOTE: If and when you already have a US college degree and a greencard and go enlist, the Army will give you the advanced rank of E-4 (Corporal/Specialist) while the Air Force and and Navy each give you E-3(Air Man First Class/Seaman. The Marine Corps will only give you E-2(Private First Class). Look it up here:

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/armyjoin/a/advancedrank....in%20the%20US%20Army

7.)"Once your a permanent resident, and you enlist, do your years enlisted count toward citizenship? For example, if I get permanent resident status and immediately exist, at five years of enlistment can I then apply for citizenship"

Here's good news. Pres. Bush also recently signed an executive order allowing greencard holders/foreign permanent residents who enlist to be eligible for citizenship ONE year after enlistment.

This used to 3-5 years for foreign permanent residents in the US military. Thank Pres. Bush for that change.

8.) "I'm not guaranteed to enlist in the US military if I get the chance, I'm just checking out my options. Canadian forces may very well be an avenue I choose."

Look, if you really want to join the US military, then you should be determined, but you should be prepared to FOR a LONG WAIT; that's why I mentioned the different US services' age requirements. Still, good luck if you really want it.

However, you have to think realistically if you want to have a military career. Is it really worth all this time and effort and money just to become just an enlisted man in that military? (college in the US is NOT Cheap- you're not eligible for student loans there cause you're not a US citizen).

Say after a decade of waiting you get your greencard, enlist. You start as an enlisted man such as a Marine Private,an Army private or a USAF airman or a Navy sailor. I know you can become an officer later once you get your citizenship, but remember you will be an junior officer in your thirties! That provides little chances for you to advance/be promoted since younger US citizens who graduated and enlisted/joined OCS earlier had a headstart in their 20s. If your final goal is to become a colonel/navy captain (0-6) or even a general/admiral, your chances are slim. You face competition from Service Academy graduates (West Pointers.etc), ROTC grads and younger OCS/OTS grads.

That's why I think you should seriously consider the Canadian Forces (CF) since you are a Canadian citizen and can join much faster (providing you pass security and medical checks). You're qualified to become an officer if you have a college degree (their officer course is called BOTP I believe) and their enlisted boot camp is called (BMQ). Their non-officers or enlisted men are called NCMs (non-commissioned members).

The Canadian Forces are maybe smaller, but they're more than made up for their small size. They have peacekeeping contingents all over the world- Haiti, Bosnia,Kosovo, Sudan, the Sinai (MFO observers) Lebanon (observers), Italy (an F-18 squadron) and of course the combat units in Afghanistan. Their history is just as proud as the US military's history- you can't deny that.
Think of past battles in past wars like the Boer Wars, Vimy (WW1), Dieppe, Juno Beach, Ortona, (WW2) Kap-Yong (Korea). You can't deny the CF has a proud history too!

And if you're still NOT satisfied with the CF, consider another option- the British Military. Since Canada is still a member of the British Commonwealth (why do you think we also have a Governor General beside the Prime Minister?)
Canadian citizens are eligible to enlist in the UK military as long as they live in the UK for 3-5 years before enlisting- the same goes for other Commonwealth nation's citizens such as Australians and New Zealanders.

If you don't believe me, look up thhttp://www.armyjobs.mod.uk/RegularArmy/Requirements/Nationality/Soldier/is link:

Remember Canada is still part of the Commonwealth:
http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/foreign_policy/commonwealth/imoc313-en.asp

I certainly hope that helps. Good luck!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Enssantor,

For those of you non-citizens who haven't read up on the latest details, here is a Link with the details.

quote:

Citizenship

While there is a statutory requirement that only a United States Citizen may become a commissioned officer, this is not true for enlistment. Certain non-citizens can enlist in the United States Armed Forces. To be eligible to enlist, a non-citizen must:


(1) Entered the United States on a permanent residence visa or has an Alien Registration Receipt Card (INS Form 1-551/I-551 greencard or stamped I-94), and

(2) Established a bona fide residence, and

(3) Established a home of record in the United States.

The visa and/or "greencard" must have sufficient time remaining on it (expiration date) to be valid during the entire term on enlistment. While non-citizens may enlist in the U.S. Military, they are not allowed to reenlist (stay in beyond their first term of service), unless they first become U.S.

Citizens. However, there are accelerated citizenship procedures for non-citizens on active duty. For details, see our article, U.S. Citizenship in the Military.

I get lots of email from non-U.S. citizens, who do not live in the U.S., asking how they can join the U.S. Military. Quite simply, you can't. In order to join any branch of the United States Military, one must either be a U.S. Citizen, or one must be a legal immigrant, currently living in the United States, with a "green card." The United States Military cannot and will not assist in the immigration process. In order to join the U.S. Military, one must legally immigrate first, and then apply to join the military, once they are living in the U.S.

For enlistment purposes, citizens of the United States include citizens of: Guam, Puerto Rico, The U.S. Virgin Islands,The Northern Marianas Islands, American Samoa, The Federated States of Micronesia, and The Republic of the Marshall Islands.

Not all non-citizens may be eligible to enlist. Applicants who have been residents of countries considered hostile to the interests of the United States require a waiver. See your local recruiter for the most current list of countries considered hostile to the interests of the United States.

While non-citizens may enlist, they will find their job choices extremely limited. DOD policy prohibits granting security clearances to non-U.S. Citizens. Therefore, non-Citizens. who enlist in the United States military will be limited to those jobs which do not require a security clearance.

Hollywood Marine,

If you've read my post, you will see that the ff. part of the information you gave us is extremely hard to get because USCIS (formerly INS) has so many requirements and categories they use to try to keep people out.

quote:

(1) Entered the United States on a permanent residence visa or has an Alien Registration Receipt Card (INS Form 1-551/I-551 greencard or stamped I-94), and

(2) Established a bona fide residence, and

(3) Established a home of record in the United States.

I am not insulting you by pointing out the obvious.

Like I said, the only way for most of the non-citizens I've observed posting on this board is through:

1.) Marriage

2.) work sponsorship

As I said, the second way is hard and is the only way for most these non-citizens to get a greencard because employers are wary of paying immigration fees and don't want to be burdened by the long application process for any one worker.

America's immigration laws need an overhaul. The image of America as an immigrant nation like that in the early 20th century is not necessarily true anymore, since only nurses, computer engineers,certain professionals such as doctors as well as spouses of US citizens are the only categories of people who get greencards easily nowadays.

If you ever watched the movie "Gangs of New York" and saw those hordes of Irish immigrants in the 1860s who stepped off the boat in Ellis Island only to be drafted and sent to the front during the Civil War. Well obviously, the military doesn't do that anymore.

That's why America should have a Foreign Legion like the French Foreign Legion, but of course no one in the Right-wing side of US politics wants to adopt a French Idea like that. A US Foreign Legion would be a proving ground for non-citizens who not only want a better life by enlisting as a way to citizenship , but it would be a proving ground of demonstrating their loyalty by fighting for the US.

I mentioned this idea on this board before but of course most of you ignored me.

quote:

Originally posted by HollywoodMarine:
For those of you non-citizens who haven't read up on the latest details, here is a Link with the details.

quote:

Citizenship

While there is a statutory requirement that only a United States Citizen may become a commissioned officer, this is not true for enlistment. Certain non-citizens can enlist in the United States Armed Forces. To be eligible to enlist, a non-citizen must:


(1) Entered the United States on a permanent residence visa or has an Alien Registration Receipt Card (INS Form 1-551/I-551 greencard or stamped I-94), and

(2) Established a bona fide residence, and

(3) Established a home of record in the United States.

This information is out of date. You can no longer join the military with a stamped I-94. I had a stamped I-94 and tried to join the Army Reserves last September. I took my ASVAB and got a 96, then found out that the regulations had changed and I would have to wait until my greencard was approved.

Kitano,

Anyone who enters the US on any visa- whether it be a student VISA (F-1), a tourist visa, a business visa, or a temporary exchange professor/student's visa (J-1) WILL DEFINITELY HAVE AN I-94 stamped on their passport at the airport or port of entry by immigration. It is only an indicator that you have entered the US and that the govt. recognizes that you entered legally.

If you were ever a foreign citizen travelling on a plane bound to set down on LAX, you would have been given an I-94 form to fill out. Then you would have to include your visa number (whatever type, which you obtained from a US consulate at your home country). Next once you line up at the immigration counter at airport and you're approved for entry, the immigration officer tears out most of the form and leaves a stub which has just your name and visa and entry number.

If you ever leave the US, the border patrol (at a land border) or the check-in counter of the airline taking you out (at an airport) will take that I-94 stub and thus pass it on to immigration authorities. Their having the stub means that you have also legally left the states.

I don't know where Hollywood Marine got the quote that someone with just an I-94 could join, but and I-94 does NOT signify that one is a permanent US immigrant. If it is from the law or the actual regulations repeated word for word, then that just shows you how indifferent and ignorant recruiters when it comes to USCIS immigration forms and regulations.

So many misconceptions.

And so few people willing to help on this board. Just the same crap all over again- NO GREENCARD, NO ENLISTMENT. But it's an unfortunate reality which many of us non-resident foreigners won't accept.

Why don't you guys just create a US Foreign Legion for non-citizens who are not permanent residents?

(Thanks again Enssantor)

One more question. I've searched this thread and couldn't find a clear answer. I've also looked on a couple sites but I've found contradictory claims...

If I obtain a green card (and become a permanent resident), and then join the military, at what point can I apply for US citizenship? This recently changed with President Bush signing something that changed the requirements.

Is it one year? Is it three years? Or is it as soon as you are officially enlisted (i.e. when I sign for the second time, at MEPS)?

Furthermore, say I was interested in an occupation that required me to be a US Citizen (let’s say for example the Navy Seals). Could I get it in my contract to the training/indoc for the Seals, even though at that point I would not be a US Citizen, but only after I first go off to boot camp?

Thanks for the help!

Max 989,

The citizenship wait is one year for those greencard holders who enlist. I am not sure if it is one year from the time you sign up or one year after graduation from boot camp (Army BCT/USAF BMT/USMC RTR/MCT or Navy Boot) or even Army AIT/Navy A-school or your MOS Training.

Check out this link for confirmation:

http://www.cna.org/news/releases/050525.aspx

The CNA is a VERY reliable source.

And check out this quote in the fourth paragraph from that link:

"A July 2002 executive order issued by President Bush allows non-citizens serving in the military to apply for expedited citizenship after only one day of active-duty service"

I hope that helps.

Still, did you even consider Canadian Forces option I elaborated upon in the SECOND POST I gave to you? How about the British military option?

Hope to hear from you.

The British military is not what I want to do. I don't particularly enjoy Britain, and feel no loyalty to them.

As for the Canadian Forces, I just don't feel that they have the same opportunities that the US forces do. In the US military, there is so much to do and so much choice, whether it be a support position or an infantry-type position. In the Canadian military, we are very passive and are more into peace-keeping. It's very honorable, but it's not exciting and there is not a whole lot to do. Plus, I feel I 'belong' in the US (damn that sounds cheesy). I am a Canadian citizen, but I have many relatives that are US citizens, and I honestly feel more loyalty to the US than Canada (if thats possible...). Hence my desire to join the US military

Just a quick question, what is defined as "active-duty service"? Is that joining an active branch such as the Army (as apposed to the Army Reserves) and just being ready to deploy, or is it being deployed and being in the field? (EDIT #2: I sort of answered my question in edit 2...)

You are very knowledgeable Enssantor


EDIT: I just found the relevant portions of the Immigration and Nationality Act (link: http://www.uscis.gov/propub/ProPubVAP.jsp?dockey=24e12c...34ade72f667ecbc8d58). For non-wartime, it is under "ACT 328 - NATURALIZATION THROUGH SERVICE IN THE ARMED FORCES OF THE UNITED STATES":

quote:

A person who has served honorably at any time in the Armed Forces of the United States for a period or periods aggregating one year, and who, if separated from such service, was never separated except under honorable conditions, may be naturalized without having resided, continuously immediately preceding the date of filing such person's application, in the United States for at least five years, and in the State or district of the Service in the United States in which the application for naturalization is filed for at least three months, and without having been physically present in the United States for any specified period, if such application is filed while the applicant is still in the service or within six months after the termination of such service.

So from that I gather that in non-wartime, one year after you sign and are officially enlisted and part of the US Armed Forces you can apply for citizenship. (If you served honorably).

What President Bush made applicable with his July 2002 Executive Order was the following under "ACT 329 - NATURALIZATION THROUGH ACTIVE-DUTY SERVICE IN THE ARMED FORCES DURING WORLD WAR I, WORLD WAR II, THE KOREAN HOSTILITIES, THE VIETNAM HOSTILITIES, OR IN OTHER PERIODS OF MILITARY HOSTILITIES":

quote:

Any person who, while an alien or a noncitizen national of the United States, has served honorably as a member of the Selected Reserve of the Ready Reserve or in an active-duty status in the military, air, or naval forces of the United States during... any other period which the President by Executive order shall designate as a period in which Armed Forces of the United States are or were engaged in military operations involving armed conflict with a hostile foreign force... may be naturalized

So in wartime (such as now) as soon as you enter active-duty status you can become a US citizen. But that leads me back to my question above of what exactly "active-duty status is"! Oh the circles...


EDIT #2: Well I did more research and generally what I found as the definition is something like such (from Wikipedia: "United States military active duty refers to military members who are currently serving full time in their military capacity. Members of a reserve component are not generally considered active duty, although some will work full time occasionally, e.g. during periods of training."

So from that I assume that joining an active branch (Army/Navy/Marine Corps/etc...) immediately allows you to apply for citizenship in wartime. Do you think that interpretation is correct?

P.S. This is a long post... and sort of pointless now that I have most of my answers, but I'll leave it as it is for anybody else who might need to know the same thing later.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: max989,

Max989,

Thanks for your reply.

You seem to have answered your own questions with the information you've provided on hand. The United States is definitely in a period of war, though this is an unconventional war because the enemy is unconventional- terrorism and probably the rogue states that back them.

You say you have US relatives, but I doubt any of them can sponsor you unless they are immediate family such as father/mother, a brother or sister or a spouse if you marry. US citizens who are grandparents, aunts and uncles or cousins cannot sponsor you.

I think the order allowing greencard holders to become citizens after one year applies only to active servicemen, not the reserves. Active refers to those who signed up for it full time, not those "weekend warriors" or reservists who signed up only "one weekend a month, 2 weeks a year" as their common slogan is for reserves or National Guard. However, if one is in a reserve or Guard unit and they are activated/Federalized, then I assume that if they are deployed in the combat zone for at least a year, that counts as that one year of active duty for those greencard soldiers, making them eligible for citizenship as well.

I realize you've decided your loyalty belongs to the US. I respect that. But you gotta understand the realities I've pointed out for you and the only open channels for you.

I'm sorry you have such a low opinion of the Canadian Forces, especially of our men and women dying fighting in Afghanistan (about 30 so far) backing US forces. The days of Peacekeeping "are over" as one CF soldier was quoted in an interview. But they are the only military you can join right away.

The CF is your only option you aside from the French Foreign Legion that is. As for the Brits, even though the British military is open to all commonwealth nations' citizens, they gotta live in Britain 3-5 years before they can enlist or go to Sandhurst for Officer Training.

You gotta be realistic. Sorry to put it to this way but if you got the student-OPT-work permit-sponsorship route, you will wait a long time to get into the US military. But if you choose that route, all power to you.

I only hope the US govt. will create their own Foreign Legion that accepts non-resident foreigners, since many people are willing to fight for America and leap at the chance for a supposedly better life in America.

Thus you can either settle with what you can do now (the CF) or do the long route, which is NOT even guaranteed to get you to where you want to be (the road to a US greencard and the US military). If you choose the second route however, pick a major in college that is in demand by US employers, like Nursing degrees or computer science and engineering degrees. That will ease your chances of getting sponsorship for a work permit and eventually a greencard.

Hope to hear from you.

quote:

Originally posted by Enssantor:
I only hope the US govt. will create their own Foreign Legion that accepts non-resident foreigners...

I know that is your own opinion, but from my stand point, it is terrible idea to have a FL in the US military. Besides, we currently have troops serving in the US military who were born outside the United States, and US citizens of different ethnic backgrounds. Not many countries armed forces have the same as we do. And there are some who do not have the unique opportunity as we do, or will not.

As a Marine, I worked with the FFL, and they are a outstanding organization. However, their loyalty begins with the Legion. Case in point, 1er REP (1er Regiment Etranger Parachutiste).

"If it ain't broken, why fix it?"

This message has been edited. Last edited by: HollywoodMarine,

Hollywood Marine,

With all due respect, I disagree. I am well aware that your military has a lot of foreign born soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen. However, many of those are foreigners who took the long process to become greencard holders (or married a US citizen) and that route is NOT guaranteed to get Mr. Max989 or any foreign citizen who does not live in the States to where they want to be- a member of your military.

I used to study in the States on a student visa since high school (even went to military boarding school and did JROTC) and eventually got my degree in Poli Sci from a US University. However, during my OPT/work permit year, I couldn't find a employer who was willing to sponsor me even though I did internships. I know other former foreign students who did get jobs but were exploited since in the end the employer chose not to sponsor them for a greencard.

As I said, I eventually left the US, returned to the Philippines for a while, then got lucky when my father's investor's visa to Canada got approved, giving my family permanent immigrant status or their version of a greencard. I only have 3 years to wait for full Canadian citizenship till I can join the Canadian Forces.

I know you probably you don't wanna listen to this whining, as you would call it in the Corps, but the hard reality is, your immigration laws are UNREASONABLE and give little or no chance for the rest of us non-resident foreigners from joining the US military.

I think some US Army or Marine Colonel Hackworth or someone else proposed the American Foreign Legion idea in several issues of "Soldier of Fortune". Even Max Boot proposed the idea.

What better way for NON-RESIDENT Foreigners to go to the US and PROVE THEIR LOYALTY than serving in the military? I think that the best service to build the foundation of such a Legion would be the Marine Corps- since you have the longest boot camps of all services and the most taxing. This will weed out all but those foreigners who really want to fight for you the most. Your DIs can go "quarterdecking" all these non-resident foreign recruits the same way you do any light or dark greens at MCRD Parris Island or San Diego.

I await your response...if any.

quote:

Originally posted by Enssantor:
I think some US Army or Marine Colonel Hackworth or someone else proposed the American Foreign Legion idea in several issues of "Soldier of Fortune". Even Max Boot proposed the idea.

SOF!? Oh brother! Don't even go there with that gun slinging magazine. Here is why.

SOF is read by some serving soldiers and veterans. Critics claim that the magazine's audience also includes many "Wanna-bes." Such critics cite the fact that many of the magazine's advertisers sell products oriented toward this market: military equipment, fake badges and IDs, weapons, etc.

These advertisements led to a landmark lawsuit in 1989, Eimann v. Soldier of Fortune Magazine, where the son and mother of a murder victim sued the magazine after it published an advertisement for a self-declared mercenary through which the victim’s husband hired the advertiser to kill her. SOF lost the case in federal district court, but won on First Amendment grounds on appeal to the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit; current Supreme Court Chief Justice John G. Roberts was one of the magazine's attorneys in the case. [2] However, SOF was found liable in a subsequent case, Braun v. Soldier of Fortune Magazine, for publishing a personal advertisement of a Mr. Michael Savage. Savage advertised himelf as a GUN FOR HIRE, and from this ad was hired to kill plaintiff's father. A verdict of $4,375,000 was upheld by the United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit on Aug. 13, 1992.

Hackworth continued his efforts, appearing on countless televisions and radio talk shows and formed his own website, continuing to be the voice of the "grunts" until his death. Newsweek caved to government pressure and fired Hackworth.

What you fail to realize is it is a privilege to serve the US Armed Forces, and not a right. My recommendation would be, if you cannot enlist in the US military, you can always try the French Foreign Legion.

Hollywood Marine,

I thank your insight into Colonel David Hackworth.

From your quote "it is priviliege to serve to serve in the miltiary you're obviously a Republican". You believe in equality of means/ opportunnity (winners take all, losers nothing) while Liberals/believe in equality of ends/rights. I mean no offence I am just dissecting that quote because I am tired of hearing it. If you truly believe in EQUAL OPPORTUNNITY, then you would give the same opportunnity to an idealistic non-resident, from say, Mexico, or Ghana, who was educated in the States and who is obviously more qualified to be a soldier than many of your natural-born citizens who are high-school dropouts like some hicks from some Lousianna or North Carolina bogs. Both should have a chance to try, it's just a shame that many who are less qualified have that chance.

Anyways, I have no more desire to serve your military- your Citizenship laws boned me even though I tried to stay in your country.

Canada has given me a new chance and I will fight for them as soon as I get my full Canadian citizenship 2 years, 7 months from now. I can even choose to fight for the British Military when I become Canadian since Canada is still technically part of the Commonwealth of Nations alongside Australia and New Zealand.

I am not iinterested in the French FOreign LEgion, coz I am not that desperate as those recruits Eastern European nations or Africa who go there since they've got no chance to go AMerica or settle in a 1stworld Western nation otherwise.

Continuining on what I was saying, I thus stand by Hackworth's and Max Boot's proposal for a United States Foreign Legion, or a Freedom Legion.

If America is truly the immigrant nation it claims to be, and if its leaders believe in equal opportunnity, then they should create the US Foreign Legion, especially since not large portion of your youth are attracted to your military and many shy away from it because of its extreme pacificist views, or a desire for high-paying corporate job or possibly they may be a degenerate pothead who just wants to further intoxicate himself.

The rest of the world has a large pool of motivated, idealistic recruits from many nations, both in the third world and in more developed 1st-world nations who are willing to fight for you. Some may be even former soldiers who come from a country like Finland whose military will never see action. Some come from a poor, autocratic society like Burma/Myanmar where they have few civil rights while others come from very poor nations with little means of ways of living like Somalia or Sudan. Many are highly-educated. Many are engineers, doctors, computer technicians. To deny America that pool of talent would deny your country a resource it cannot get from within because your own people are spoiled by the high-standard of living and popular culture. So therefore there is less of a desire to serve for a greater cause within many of your own locals (except maybe conservatives and some idealists, and some people who come from military families). This may be stereotyping, but that is what I observed from living in America for 6 years and possibly why I am turning liberal in many of my views.

Here's Max Boot's article on his proposed "Freedom Legion" for the US:

http://www.cfr.org/publication.html?id=7861

While I will stay in Canada, I will continue to be an advocate for this Freedom Legion concept on this forum, whether some of you here like it or not.

Another thing I'd like to add,

this maybe obvious but I'll reiterate it for the sake of this forum. Many of these potential foreign non-resident recruits I told you about also want to join your military because it is the world's most advanced, most powerful military and therefore the ONLY MILITARY in the free world that can make a difference not only because of it size, but because of the wars it fought in the past where it was perceived to be fighting for a greater cause- such as during World Wars One and Two, The Korean War, and Desert Storm, Grenada, Panama (I won't say Vietnam, since that was more for self-interest and anti-commy domino effect paranoia).

The Chinese and Russian militaries are just as large and almost equally powerful but they have low morale and extensive corruption- the same goes for any former Warsaw Pact military or any military of a country that has had or still has an autocratic form of government.

The British and French militaries have the same global reach and similar capabilties, but they lack the numbers to support their global commitments though they have nuclear weapons.

Middle military powers such as Japan, Canada, Australia, Spain and Italy all have decent militaries that train across along First-world standards, but so far, the most action they will see be as supporting roles to their bigger allies and for peacekeeping missions.

I am not even going to discuss Third World nations' militaries' whose spehere of influence and ability to influence the world outside their own country is virtually non-existent.

Still, as I said, they believe that because of all these reasons, THE US MILITARY IS THE ONLY MILITARY IN THE WORLD THAT CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE, so therefore they want to join it.

Max 989,

if you're still reading this, you can join a lively discussion on a US Freedom Legion at the Canadian Army forum at this thread:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,28732.0.html

You should probably register at the army.ca website and get a screen name I think, before you can join it, but there are many interesting viewpoints and opinions, there especially from two former Canadian Soldiers there who are now in the US Marines.

quote:

Originally posted by Enssantor:
From your quote "it is priviliege to serve to serve in the miltiary you're obviously a Republican".

Holy Moose's Beer! What was dat aboot?

It is obvious that you misquoted what I wrote. I said, "it is a privilege... and not a right." By the way brotha, your assumption about me being a Republican are wrong. I am an "Independent."

The fact that you don't take any of what I say seriously is unfortunate- even to the point of mocking my new country with the word "aboot".


You CAN'T even provide a single COUNTER-ARGUMENT to what I'm saying.

I doesn't matter what your registered, political affiliation is- but you appear to be conservative because you believe that serving in the should be privliege- a priviliege for any lazy, high school dropout from some swamp in Georgia while any idealistic, motivated individual from say Mexico or Haiti would be willing to but cannot because of your citizenship laws. Serving in your military should be a right for anyone who is healthy with working limbs, is sane and has a decent education.

People who've understood what it is like live in a poor country will not abuse POWs or civilians as what happened at Abu Ghraib or Haditha. BTW, any counterargument you may make that this can happen to any military is flawed since the US military should have the high standards of conduct that other militaries model themselves on.

Essantor, stick to the topic or take your political banter to another forum. Thanks.

I am sticking to the topic. Just giving you my rationale for why there should be a US Foreign Legion.

i have a greencard and im planning to do the non-scholarship army ROTC program (non-citizens can join) when i go to college next year. i've talked to some ROTC cadets and they told me that i can get my citizenship a lot faster by doing ROTC. Executive Order # 13269 states that "non-citizen service members are eligible to apply for naturalization without waiting 5 years to fulfill residence requirements". from my understanding, however, ROTC cadets aren't really IN the army until they're commissioned. can i really get my citizenship faster by doing ROTC or do i just have to wait for 5 years?

i whant informetion in how to joing the army im us resident whit a green card

quote:

Originally posted by 13000562:
i whant informetion in how to joing the army im us resident whit a green card

You need to contact a recruiter. Click on this Link for one.

Hollywood Marine,

IF you have any sense of PROPRIETY and DECENCY, you will give my argument a good counter-argument rather than hide behind mockery like the way you mocked my adoptive country as a ten-year would.

My point is- I have as much a right to fight and join in your military as anyone who is educated, sane and physically fit. Any Mexican, Chinese, or East Indian non-resident (not a greencard holder) or any citizen of any of America's allies is JUST AS QUALIFIED as any HICK born and raised in some Lousianna swamp who is a high school dropout, but gets the chance to join your Marines. Your immigration process denies all these qualified people the right to do that because it is long and INHUMANE and unfair while those born inside the US don't even have to work for that right.

Wake Up Jarhead! The right to fight for a cause should be a human right as well, not a priviliege like owning a Lamborghini.