I currently hold a civilian Private & Commercial helicopter ratings with around 155 hours of flying, and lately I have become interested in flying in the military. Is there any fast tracking to flight school with that type of prior experience? Or does previous experience mean nil in the military and would have to start from scratch like everyone else?

Thanks.

First you gotta be an officer.
Then you gotta compete with a lot of other guys that want that.
Your private flying will mean nothing. In a way they almost prefer no experience, then they dont haft to break any bad habits.

Shockey

not entirley accurate shockey.. the Army will let Non degree holders fly Helos as a Warrant Officer.

buit the rest of your statemnet is pretty spot on especially aboiut breaking bad habits and meeting the requirements.

Yeah, if you are looking to get into flight school without going the officer candidate school route, Army WOFT would probably be the best way to go.

At one time, my recruiting office was right across the hall from the Army Recruiting Office. They had a chart on their door with the requirements for the Warrant Officer Flight Program. If I had an applicant who wanted to be a pilot and nothing but, I sent them across the hall. That is, if they didn't have a college degree and wanted to apply for OCS.

And not to get to nit-picky, but a Warrant Officer is an officer. However, we didn't have Warrant Officers (W-1) by the time I joined the Coast Guard. If you were appointed, it was to Chief Warrant Officer (CWO-2). I did see a picture of a Coast Guard W-1 at the Petaluma CG Training Center. The picture was taken in 1966.

I would guess they are saluted and addressed as sir or maam like any other commissioned officer.

O Yea, forgot about the WO's

Shockey

So you could potentially go from Basic Training --> Warrant Officer Flight Training?

And more more question I couldn't find anywhere. Do you first get accepted to WOFT, then off too Basic?

Well, yeah, that's the reason the program is nicknamed "high school to flight school".
Hopefully, some of the Army types who frequent this board can fill you in. Check out the GoArmy.com website. Here is a little of what they have to say -

quote:

Individuals who are accepted for Warrant Officer Candidate School (WOCS) will first attend the nine-week Basic Combat Training (BCT) course as an Enlisted Soldier. Following completion of BCT, they will attend WOCS.

Those who currently serve in the military and maintain a superior level of technical/tactical expertise are also encouraged to learn more by contacting the Warrant Officer Recruiting Team.

31, ask your Army recruiter about the WOFT application process. You have to be selected to program and it is not a cake walk. A good chunk of the people selected for the program when my son applied had a private pilot’s license.

When I was in the Army the WOs were called Mr. not Sir (never saw any other than men).

I always addressed officers as Mr. ______ or Ms. up to commander (O-5). Then it was commander, captain, etc.

Or simply as sir or maam.

quote:

Originally posted by Numbers_:
31, ask your Army recruiter about the WOFT application process. You have to be selected to program and it is not a cake walk. A good chunk of the people selected for the program when my son applied had a private pilot’s license.

When I was in the Army the WOs were called Mr. not Sir (never saw any other than men).

The female WO's are addressed as "Ms." or "Ma'am".

22297531

Don't be shocked, but your helo time will mean very little to the Army in your selection process. The washout rate in Army flight school is less than 5%. That being the case, the Army knows pretty much that ANYONE can pass the training program once selected.

No short cut in training for having helo time for the most part. You'll solo sooner than most. Do you have your instrument ticket? You could possibly save some flight time there as well in the instrument phase.

Besides, when you apply for Warrant Officer Flight Training (WOFT) as a civilian, the selection rate is less than 15%. And, mostly everyone will have flight time indicated in their packet. Once again your hours aren't that special. Your desire to be an Army Officer is what matters.

If you think you only fly as an Army pilot, you will be surprised. After getting winged, you get to spend time living in the woods with your helo for weeks at a time. And, other non flying duties come with the job. Do you like running. The Army loves it. You even get to wash your helos from time to time.

If you JUST want to fly helos, don't join. Stay in the civilian world, you'll be happier. If you want to be an Army Warrant Officer give it a try. You may average 25 hrs a month unless flying in Iraq/Afgan. There, you'll fly your butt off. Of course, someone over there will be trying to shoot it off for you. And, you will surely spend at least one tour there since your commitment is for 6 yrs after flight school. The Army loves payback.

Good luck on going Army Strong. Your flight time won't hurt but it's not a great big plus on the selection board. Civilian flying is somewhat easy but, military flying can get you a** KILLED. We lost 3 helos last week. One in Calif and two others in Iraq/Afgan. We don't pay much but we play for KEEPS.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: zaurus,

quote:

Originally posted by 22297531:
Or does previous experience mean nil in the military and would have to start from scratch like everyone else?

If anything your prior flight experience will help you to be comfortable in the cockpit and in the air. But other than that, yes you will be starting from scratch as far as military flight training is concerned.

Former Navy pilot and Blue Angel, Jim Horsley once said about his first weeks in Navy Flight School, "I checked my ego at the door. Even though I already had a single-engine pilot's license, the three to four weeks of ground school needed to fly the T-34 became nothing less than a simple, yet crucial, pass-fail exam."

As you can see, Jim Horsley already had his pilot's license and experience before he went to Navy Flight School, but it was still tough.

Yes, bring your helo experience, but act as if you're LEARNING SOMETHING NEW.

Lots of "not quite rights" on this thread so let me se what I can do to fix it.

"When I was in the Army the WOs were called Mr. not Sir (never saw any other than men)."

Warrant officers are only called "Mr." when it followed by their last names such as Mr. Smith. You would never address them as just Mister. Calling a warrant officer sir is correct just like you would any officer.

"Is there any fast tracking to flight school with that type of prior experience?"

In all honesty, 155 hours isn't really that much experience in the grand scheme of things and certainly not enough to fast track you on any military flight program. That is about as much flight time as a newly minted military pilot will have coming out of a flight training program. That amount of flight time is not enough to give you bad habits.

No matter what service you apply for you don't need prior flight training but it won't hurt if you have it. The only real advantage that flight training gives you is you will most likely do better on the flight aptitude tests which could give you an advantage on being selected to flight training.

The thought of breaking bad habits is kind of an old wives tale from those that have never actually completed flight training anyway. As an instructor pilot of many years, I can quickly correct a bad habit but it takes a while to develop a new pilot from scratch. In fact, the Navy sends its new pilots who have never completed any flight training to a civilian flight training program before starting military flight training. So one advantage you would have with prior experience is that you could bypass that portion of Naval flight training.

"So you could potentially go from Basic Training --> Warrant Officer Flight Training?"

Yes, it happens all the time. In order to do that you have to apply as a civilian just like you would for OCS in any other service. If you get accepted, you go to Basic training, then to Warrant Officer Candidate School, then to flight school after that. You can also enlist and apply from within a well.


Good luck.

quote:

That being the case, the Army knows pretty much that ANYONE can pass the training program.

Actually, just like every other service's flight program, they weed out the majority of people they think will fail. Not anyone can pass the training program. You don't have to be special but you do have to have some aptitude.

Dolphindriver

The Army has about a 95% graduation rate from WOFT. The Army selection process weeds out the weak applicants in their eyes. In fact, a few Army WOFT students would want to make the program more difficult. But training dollars trump quality control. The Army figures you can be a copilot for years and years. They do not have any single piloted aircraft that I know of.

zaurus, all services have a graduation rate from flight school around that number. That was my point. Most people are weeded out by the aptitude tests and even more simply by the length of the application process.

The OH-58 used to be single pilot when I was in. Is that not the case anymore now that it is a D model? Until the Army went to advanced airframes, most Army aircraft were single pilot including the AH-1, and the UH-1.

As far as being a copilot for years, the majority of military aircraft are dual seat and pilots are developed rather slowly. Even single seat pilots go through intesive training before being sent out into the "real world." I know Navy and Coast Guard pilots that didn't make Aircraft Commander for three to four years after flight school. I also know Army pilots that were flying single pilot aircraft six months after flight school.

By the way, there is always someone who wants to make training harder. I know a pilot who completed his Master's degree while completing Naval Flight Training. Gluttons for punishment are everywhere.

Thanks for the replys and good information.

This topic reminded of something funny that happened when I was in recruiting. This doesn't apply to the OP, but the pilot's license thing made me think of it.

One really cold morning, wind blowing and sleet flying, I opened the office around 8am. This guy comes barging in, doesn't say a word, and throws down a card on my desk and says "What will this get me?"

Oh, you don't know how bad I wanted to say "Well, along with 50 cents, I think you could get a cup of coffee at the Burger King across the street!"

But I asked him what it was, and he said it was a private pilot's license and he wanted to be a pilot in the Coast Guard. I told him the OCS requirements, and of course, he did not meet them.

So then he asked me about enlisted service, no dice there either. He had been in the Army for all of three weeks, and received an entry level separation.

All in a day's work in recuriting!

Dolphindriver

Were you ever an Army aviator before going USCG? If so, when and rated in which aircraft? I flew OH-6 and OH-13 alone but in today's Army everything is flown with two pilot crews.

I believe in the Army the UH-1 and AH-1 were flown with one pilot on exceptions to policy.

Hey, what do I know. I still like a cold toilet
seat in the morning.

WoW, a lot of good information thanks guys!

About how long does it take to complete this WOFT packet? Can't seem to find much about it online.

it will take a few months to get a WOFT packet together since you will have to take some tests and a flght physical. You will also have a few other hurdles to jump through to get your packet submitted. You will then have to wait for the selection board to meet. So it can be quite a while.

22297531

The WOFT packet could take up to 3-6 months. So many factors come into play. Background investigation, flight physical, AFAST exam, ASVAB testing, local selection officer board, Army final selection board and other requirements. The Army wants to really know if you're Officer material. Flying skills is the easy part, even a caveman/woman can do it.

Thanks all! And one last question, haha.

Right now I am DQ'd for my vision, but I thought I read somewhere you can get LASIK and you are good to go. How would that time-line go... do the WOFT packet and if I get accepted then can I do the LASIK. Or do I need to spend $4,000 on a prayer I get accepted, and if I don't... well at least I got better eyes now?

quote:

Originally posted by zaurus:
Dolphindriver

Were you ever an Army aviator before going USCG? If so, when and rated in which aircraft? I flew OH-6 and OH-13 alone but in today's Army everything is flown with two pilot crews.

I believe in the Army the UH-1 and AH-1 were flown with one pilot on exceptions to policy.

Hey, what do I know. I still like a cold toilet
seat in the morning.

Yes, I was an Army pilot before going into the CG. You aren't really questioning my service record are you? I was rated in the UH-1, AH-1, and AH-64 and was in the Army from 1988-1997.

The AH-1, OH-58, and the UH-1 were able to be flown single pilot at any time. No exception needed. They were normally flown with two pilots just like advanced aircraft are today but they didn't have to be.

I really don't see your point in any of your comments. Are you trying to say Army pilots get inferior flight training compared to pilots in other services when they complete their training? You did say it was too easy. Or that they don't progress as fast as pilots in other services simply because they have two pilots in the cockpit? You did say they would be copilots for years and years. Of course you also said that the civilian selection rate was 15% and that most would have flight training. I have no idea where you came up with those stats. Your comments sound as if you have a chip on your shoulder for the Army for whatever reason. I talk to pilots who just left the Army all of the time so I get to hear what is still going on. Yes, they have their complaints and they are pretty much the same ones I had when I was in but the Army program is still top notch and provides some great helicopter pilots to the service.

As I stated earlier, the pass rate is about the same regardless of which military flight school you look at, most military aircraft require two pilots, and pilots progress about the same regardless of rank or service. So the real decision is what service you want to try and fly for. Each has its ups and downs and their own hoops to jump through. Not everyone is cut out to be an officer and not everyone is cut out to be a pilot but if you want it bad enough you can make it happen.

quote:

Originally posted by 22297531:
Thanks all! And one last question, haha.

Right now I am DQ'd for my vision, but I thought I read somewhere you can get LASIK and you are good to go. How would that time-line go... do the WOFT packet and if I get accepted then can I do the LASIK. Or do I need to spend $4,000 on a prayer I get accepted, and if I don't... well at least I got better eyes now?

I don't have an answer for you but I do know that the rules have relaxed quite a bit on those procedures but look into the regs on the procedures and actual vision requirements BEFORE you do it as you might just get yourself taken out of the running by doing the procedure when you don't need to.

Yeah, I would definately research that throughly. LASIK was even disqualifying for enlistment when I was recruiting. I guess medical science has improved a long way on it.

Back in 1995, I had a physician who was trying to get a commission in the U. S. Public Health call me and tell me he was disqualified because of it.

DO NOT get LASIK. PRK is the way to go. Lasik was disqualifing for aircrew and I'm sure it still is.