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Basic Training |
RE: http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,164938,00.html
Comments welcome. This message has been edited. Last edited by: rakimball, |
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For a guy that represents one major Pro-Iraq War Vet's organization to say these things ??? It's good to see he agrees with what most of us who want OUT of Iraq have been saying for 5 years... "THEN what"?
Someday soon maybe he'll make a believer out of some of those who see nothing but "success" in our current, undefinable and losing "strategy". |
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Basic Training |
I totally agree with ya there, Weather.
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Warned for racist comments. 40 days 1 August 2008 USAF_76 |
I pity those who are found in bed with Islam when it hits my town.
Stop Jihad |
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Member |
Check out Does Basra Reflect a Defining Moment in War?
The commenter, someone knowledgeable about Iraqi affairs, says the current government has no real power in Iraq. Tribal or religious leaders with weapons have the power. As to this op-ed, like North, this author seems to use "the press" as a red herring. He otherwise offers some compelling observations on what we're doing or not doing there. But note, it's not "the press." It's "the Middle East," stupid! The U.S. has its foot stuck in a bear trap and keeps arguing over how to find the bear! |
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Basic Training |
Bwf - thanks for the link. Nasr's The Shia Revival is one of the better things I've read over the past year.
As far as the press as red herring, that certainly wasn't my intent. My primary point was that the paucity of strategic thought in the current crisis is matched only by the lack of serious thought to second- and third-order consequences in the analysis of that crisis. I too dislike broad generalizations such as "the press", but I'd challenge you to find me specific examples that counteract my main point - they are few and far between. The Nasr link you provide is a great example - his main point is that the Maliki government is irrelevant because "men with guns" now control much of Iraq. While that has elements of truth, it ignores the main problem - in many regions, a significant number of those men with guns are in fact on Maliki's payroll. Therefore, although he may not have the level of control a sovereign government should have, calling him "irrelevant" strikes me as a desperate reach for a soundbite. The fact that Hansen didn't challenge him on that point shows just how little media personalities of any stripe are willing to challenge the "talking heads" they bring on their shows. |
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Basic Training |
Weather, IAVA is neither pro nor anti-war. They are very much pro veteran and veteran's rights. They are comprised of veterans from all over the country that have views that vary as vastly as many on these boards. I encourage everyone to check them out. If you liked what the Major had to say here, you may find some of his writings extremely insightful.
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Basic Training |
It would be outstanding if we had people 'in the know' and able to make decisions that would actually ask that "what next?" questions without losing their careers.
Defining moment alright - I think we have all seen many of those come and go without satisfaction. Unfortunately, it is not just the public intellectuals that are hopelessly and clueless mired. |
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Good counterpoint. "The Press" is a fickle thing at best. But if one digs, one can find the likes of Col.(ret) Andrew Bacevich. I discovered him through "the press." BTW... you are a welcome addition to the op-ed pages. I apologize for my paraphrasing the "It's the economy..." cliche. Was not meaning it as an epithet toward you, but only as a reference to a common quote. |
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I found the article very refreshing and quite to the point...
I had concluded long ago that no one asked ...in the terms of the author..."Then what?"...my terms were slightly different as in "how do we support the people"...Seems no one took the time to understand the ideology, the mentality, or the needs of the people of the Middle East as part of the plan...had the time been taken to understand the efforts required in follow-on operations much of what is occuring may have been able to have been avoided with more positive reults...of course that is only speculation... This message has been edited. Last edited by: TheTinker, |
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Interesting Tinker... As I myself have said the exact same thing, for 5 years. In fact if you could look back at my posts from 2002 or so(not sure how you would do that under the "New" format) you would see that not only DID I support GW and the toppling of Saddam, I also asked many times... "But THEN What". Colin Powell asked GW himself... the "You brake it, you own it" talk he had with him? Just so you are aware... |
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Seems to me I remember you saying that...and at the time I agreed with you ..as I do now...When we first went in...a good friend of mine (a wounded Viet Nam Vet) and I had this smae discussion...even though he and I often have opposing views...we both agreed on this same subject...we didn't have a clue as to what we had to do in terms of the people... |
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Member |
See, we do agree, generally, more than .01% of the time. By the way... I appreciated your caution of our Marine friend.
Did you watch the "Frontline" program last week...? http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/bushswar/ Anyone who is interested in a fact-based timeline of the War in Iraq (and all the people who *F'd It Up*, from the start) should see it. |
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Basic Training |
Should we Bring back Rumsfeld to clean up his mess?
One person I truly wish was held accountable for his descions. |
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Currently I have no access to a television and where I am temporarily living there is slim chance of internet...it's random...TV and Internet are on the agenda...just don't know when either will arrive... No worries on the Lance Corporal...he was out of line with the commie comment... and ya...we do agree more than .01% of the time...but if I let on how much I agree with you the discussions wouldn't be as much fun... |
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Basic Training |
According to a documentary I recently saw on ETV Shiite militia leader Muqtada al-Sadr is nothing more than what we call here in the USA-a DIRT BAG CRIMINAL. Muqtada al-Sadr came to power because the USA leadership in Iraq, Bremer and other Department of State arrow heads, were afraid of al-Sadr. I hope everyone on this net tunes in for the ETV documentary called,GEORGE BUSH'S WAR. If you are really brave then read the book CURVEBALL which takes apart the BUSH-CHANEY-RUMSFIELD gang of thieves Iraq lies. The war has slaughtered millions of folk not to mention over four thousand USA WARRIORS and thousands of critically wounded WARRIORS who are received in the USA veterans hospitals that are already over loaded and under funded. Some experts have calculated the Iraq war will cost the USA over three trillion dollars. BRING OUR TROOPS HOME. SEMPER FI AND GOD BLESS AMERICA.
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Warned for racist comments. 40 days 1 August 2008 USAF_76 |
This is beginning to resemble moveon.org
Stop Jihad |
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Basic Training |
Echo:
By all means, enlighten us - who is/are the "Jihadis" in the events that I referenced? |
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Member |
A good and thoughtful passdown from Maj.Kimball!
Why did Prime Minister Maliki initiate the fighting now? What kind of role are US forces playing in the fighting? Will the offensive successfully kill or capture most of the militia members? The fact that these are the primary questions dominating the current discourse shows that we've learned nothing in the last five years. As to why Maliki decided to go after Sadr? I believe its the upcoming elections and PM Maliki didn't like what he saw in the "tea leaves" as to al-sadr's chances of gaining significant ground in the Iraqi Congress. The Iranians must have "signed off" on Maliki's "raid"(one might remember the little sit down with Iranian President Abedinejad a month ago in Baghdad). Al-Sadr's miltia (Mahdi Army) held up and is keeping it's weapons, no clear winner here,but al-Sadr survives to fight another day. The Iranians of course back al-Sadr too, talk about hedging one's bets! Learned nothing in Five Years! Whats new? Great link BWF, to the NPR story. |
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