a greivance procedure?

Against NACO? Where would you start??

Against the 'gold side' that didn't do their job? Sheesh!!!

quote:

"this member" 16889342

Did ya not read what I wrote, or are ya selective in what you consider to be legitimate issues, incompetance, or corruption in the AUX.

I filed an "official formal complaint/request for investigation" about someone in the AUX with "frocked rank" over me WAY overstepping the boundaries and limitations of their AUX job title, via the "chain of leadership and communication". It went to my FC, VFC, and DCP. In writing. And the ONLY sounds I heard; other than the "can't you just forget it for the good of the Auxiliary"(spoken to me by my FC), were the FC,VFC, and DCP picking up the corner of the AUX "rug" and sweeping the issue under it.

Hell, on active duty even a "lowly" E-2 or E-3(some of the better people I met and dealt with in the USCG were E-2's and E-3's) had the right to file a formal complaint/request for investigation and file it up the chain of command and expect, by directive, something to be done about it.

Not saying ANYTHING GOOD would come of it, but ya had the right to. And you also had the right to expect an answer. It was mandated by directive & policy.

And the AUX has(or at least HAD when I was in, no idea if they still do) similiar policies and guidelines. Only diff is the AUX didn't seem to want to adhere to 'em-JRC

quote:

Originally posted by Forewatch:


Please cut the "I don't have anything to hide" jargon. Neither do I.. but that has nothing to do with why I refused to go through the PSI crap. Shall we go through this again? I'm game.

And yeah, I'm part of the solution.. I refused to give away any more of my liberties by being a sheep and submitting to an expensive, invasive, and unnecessary PSI. In my opinion, you're part of the problem.. you are one of the many who hands away their liberties in this country without a second thought.

Wow, sorry if I hit a nerve. I am also sorry if you think by me submitting to the PSI that I am someone that is "handing away my liberties". Not at all. You and I don't see eye to eye. Plain and simple with that. Honestly, I don't see how by not Voluntarily submitting will stop them (the government) from getting your information. If they want it, they will get it. So, without creating a defensive argument from you, how would you say that by "refusing to give away, any more of my liberties..." is part of the solution? To me, a solution to a problem is implementing a fix (or an attempt) to a given problem. Refusal to do something is not a solution. I look at this like a job. If I just "refuse" to do something because I don't think it's right, guess what, I lose my job. Now, if I propose and alternative, and it fixes the problem, then I am part of the solution. If that is not what my supervisor says and states I need to do it anyway, I do it (to keep my job), at least I proposed an alternative. Credit checks/background checks are normal to get a job. Background checks are normal for other volunteer organizations (youth sports and the like). Would I refuse to do that so I can make a difference in my child's life just on principle alone? That would sound selfish to me. No matter what my personal beliefs are on my invasion of my "liberties", I sucked it up to better the organization that my child belongs to, therefore being part of the solution. Now, you can take that as "well, I am teaching my kids to keep their liberties". I say that is being selfish.

Again, for the sake of saving argument: What would you propose to do? Take away the PSI? ok, then what?

Trust me, I give more than a second thought to things. I consider the alternatives and go with what I think is right.

Once again, if I have offended, you, then sorry.

You know, the thing is with the negativity here, if that can be turned into the collective good that would be best instead of "i'm game" for what seems like a forum for arguements.

This, or any other organization, is only as good as the people that run it. If the organization is worth it to you, then do what you can to improve the process. The organization will not run by itself. If you don't want to be part of the process for what ever reason (and I can understand if there was some "preferential treatment" that caused someone to leave) then let it go. Remember, the grass may be greener on the other side, but it's still grass.

You want incompetence, I'll give you incompetence. I put in for orders on POMs and was told I am unqualified to get orders. Went to my FSO-IS to find out why. She went to the SO-IS and was told, "That's not my job." She then went to the District IS and got chewed out for not going through channels. It is over a month now, and we are on the beach with no orders. Maybe it is because I have only been a coxswain for eighteen years or that we have the biggest, best equpped OPFAC in the AOR. And they wonder why membership is taking a dump.

The answer is available to anyone with AUXDATA access for your Flotilla. All that needs to be done is run the "Training Management Report", it will show exactly why you are not "current".

Thanks Ted. Will do.

quote:

Originally posted by pachesma:
That FC is now the div capt and the then div capt is next in line to be DIST COMO. The person I was "whining" about is still the Div ops guy.
JRC

John I have to put in a correction here. Nobody from your old division currently holds an elected office at the district level. DCO's Div. 6, VCO Div. 2 and RCO-BOS Div. 3

quote:

Originally posted by Ancora:
You want incompetence, I'll give you incompetence. I put in for orders on POMs and was told I am unqualified to get orders.

Not many people are willing to admit their own faults like that. Good for you.

quote:

Originally posted by Ancora:
You want incompetence, I'll give you incompetence. I put in for orders on POMs and was told I am unqualified to get orders. Went to my FSO-IS to find out why. She went to the SO-IS and was told, "That's not my job." She then went to the District IS and got chewed out for not going through channels. It is over a month now, and we are on the beach with no orders. Maybe it is because I have only been a coxswain for eighteen years or that we have the biggest, best equpped OPFAC in the AOR. And they wonder why membership is taking a dump.

AUXDATA shows you REYR for a QE checkride that was to be completed by December of 2007.

FWIW, as FSO-IS I did a work up on all REYR and what was needed to clear it and had it in the FC's hands before the January meeting. The SO-IS has provided a division listing of all QE checks required in '08.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeAux:]
Wow, sorry if I hit a nerve. I am also sorry if you think by me submitting to the PSI that I am someone that is "handing away my liberties". Not at all. You and I don't see eye to eye. Plain and simple with that. Honestly, I don't see how by not Voluntarily submitting will stop them (the government) from getting your information. If they want it, they will get it. So, without creating a defensive argument from you, how would you say that by "refusing to give away, any more of my liberties..." is part of the solution? To me, a solution to a problem is implementing a fix (or an attempt) to a given problem. Refusal to do something is not a solution. I look at this like a job. If I just "refuse" to do something because I don't think it's right, guess what, I lose my job. Now, if I propose and alternative, and it fixes the problem, then I am part of the solution. If that is not what my supervisor says and states I need to do it anyway, I do it (to keep my job), at least I proposed an alternative. Credit checks/background checks are normal to get a job. Background checks are normal for other volunteer organizations (youth sports and the like). Would I refuse to do that so I can make a difference in my child's life just on principle alone? That would sound selfish to me. No matter what my personal beliefs are on my invasion of my "liberties", I sucked it up to better the organization that my child belongs to, therefore being part of the solution. Now, you can take that as "well, I am teaching my kids to keep their liberties". I say that is being selfish.

OK, game on.. I'm willing to rehash this with you. If the majority of Auxies did as I did and REFUSED the PSI... what do you think would have happened? I'll bet you they (DHS) would have rethought their position. As it turned out, the PSI was a terrible failure, and they did loosen it up a bit, but not enough.

Actually, I think it was selfish of you to "suck it up" and go through it if you felt it was violating your personal liberties.

I loved the Auxiliary.. I had a lot of time and money invested in it. I was on the national staff, and held three other positions. I also wrote for the Navigator. In addition, I was working on my goal of becoming the first female Auxie OD underway. I gave that all up.. and believe me, it wasn't easy, because I refuse to compromise my ethics. That was one of the hardest sacrifices I have ever made, and it still isn't easy today. The "EASY" way for me would have been to "suck it up" and violate my beliefs and ethics. I can't do that. That's just who I am.

And, once again, am I against background checks? Not completely. The Auxiliary could have had one done just with my SS#. That's what banks do when you apply for a mortgage, and what my employer did when I applied for my job. Simple and effective.

Instead, they wanted to fingerprint me like a criminal, and they wanted me to fill out the story of my life including who my neighbors are and who my grade school teachers were. Come on!

These types of background checks are over the top.. and frankly.. DO NOT WORK. If they did, you would not have military prisons.

As for working with children.. I do. I did not have a background check to teach judo. It was not required.

I also volunteer as a youth mentor on tall ships in Europe. I only had to present them with a letter from my local police department saying that I have never been arrested. The police department ran my SS# and, since my record is clean, wrote the letter. Simple. Painless. And.. cheap.

No fingerprinting, no asking who my neighbors are and grade school teachers.. none of that crap.

By the way.. you don't think the government is getting a little TOO into our stuff? This just came out today:
http://www.knbc.com/news/15722097/detail.html

quote:

Again, for the sake of saving argument: What would you propose to do? Take away the PSI? ok, then what?

Yes. Get rid of the blasted thing. We didn't have one before, and not a single terrorist has infiltrated the Auxiliary... and we don't need one now. If the Auxiliary wants to check on someone, no problem.. run their SS# through the data base.

quote:

Trust me, I give more than a second thought to things. I consider the alternatives and go with what I think is right.

Once again, if I have offended, you, then sorry.

The only thing I find offensive is the implication that people who refused the PSI "have something to hide."

quote:

You know, the thing is with the negativity here, if that can be turned into the collective good that would be best instead of "i'm game" for what seems like a forum for arguements.

This, or any other organization, is only as good as the people that run it. If the organization is worth it to you, then do what you can to improve the process. The organization will not run by itself. If you don't want to be part of the process for what ever reason (and I can understand if there was some "preferential treatment" that caused someone to leave) then let it go. Remember, the grass may be greener on the other side, but it's still grass.

In otherwords, sit in your garden full of weeds and say, "There are no weeds in my garden, there are no weeds in my garden." Pretending there are no problems in the Auxiliary doesn't make it true.

Every organization has its problems.. but you have to identify them and talk about them, or the problems will choke your organization, and it will wither and die. I see evidence of the Auxiliary withering. It's not too late to save it.

In case you haven't noticed, I loved the Auxiliary when I was in it, which is why I am still interested in what is going on.. and why I read this board.

I stand corrected. I thought Eunice was VCO, she's DSO-PE.

She's also my old DIV ops boss. She ACTUALLY wasn't a half bad person to deal with, she actually tried to talk to me instead of blowing up my a$$ with that "forget it for the good of the auxiliary" crap the now Div Capt(my former FC)ran by me. And don't get me wrong, I said "OK" to it, more I guess because I could hear the wagons circling in the background than I actually cared about the "good of the Auxiliary" nonsense. I was already familiar with that sound.

No big deal, I guess. The AUX wasn't cut out for me, and I most assuredly wasn't cut out for the AUX.

But please also remember that when I was on active duty ata small boat station we had a flotilla there and we worked with them and they worked with us. And the AUX I saw and worked with on active duty was NOTHING like the AUX I joined.I guess time changed things, and changed things for the worse.

The surplus 41 UTB I was talking about ended up going to the Quincy PD or Harbormaster, I don't even know if they have it anymore.

If anyone at your end of 1NR is interested, I know where there's an old 40' UTB that can be had. Rough shape but probably priced right-JRC

quote:

In otherwords, sit in your garden full of weeds and say, "There are no weeds in my garden, there are no weeds in my garden." Pretending there are no problems in the Auxiliary doesn't make it true.

Every organization has its problems.. but you have to identify them and talk about them, or the problems will choke your organization, and it will wither and die. I see evidence of the Auxiliary withering. It's not too late to save it.

This I whole heartedly agree with you (for once. See we are getting there ). That is what I meant by my last paragraph.

quote:

Actually, I think it was selfish of you to "suck it up" and go through it if you felt it was violating your personal liberties.

That's just it. I didn't feel like my personal liberties where violated. Just like I don't think that taking off my shoes at the airport is a violation of my liberties. I also think that taking off my shoes or putting liquid containers in a zip lock bag is not going to stop people who really want to do harm. So, again, it was for the bigger picture.

quote:

Yes. Get rid of the blasted thing. We didn't have one before, and not a single terrorist has infiltrated the Auxiliary... and we don't need one now. If the Auxiliary wants to check on someone, no problem.. run their SS# through the data base.

Well, we really don't know what the intention was for the PSI (at least I don't). The thing is with SSN or Driver's license, or anything like that can be easily forged. Finger prints cannot.

The thing is this Fore, and this is just my honest opinion: If you love the Aux that much, then go through the process again. You and I probably won't see eye to eye on many things. If we did, we would be drones. If you have that passion then put it to good use. I don't agree with some things you say and I am sure you don't agree with me. But those are the "weeds" you speak of, get rid of them for the common good of the garden.

quote:

I see evidence of the Auxiliary withering. It's not too late to save it.

If you have this much fight in a forum, then put it back into the Aux instead of letting it whither. That's what I intend to do

quote:

Originally posted by MikeAux:


That's just it. I didn't feel like my personal liberties where violated.

No, that's not what you said.. you said, "No matter what my personal beliefs are on my invasion of my "liberties", I sucked it up to better the organization that my child belongs to, therefore being part of the solution."

So in otherwords, you would go against your personal ethics if you believed the PSI was unethical and a violation of your liberties. That's where you and I part.

quote:

Well, we really don't know what the intention was for the PSI (at least I don't). The thing is with SSN or Driver's license, or anything like that can be easily forged. Finger prints cannot.

Then why will a bank be willing to lend someone literally millions of dollars, based on a credit check, and not require fingerprints? And if the sum of the past equaled the future, why are there military prisons? These people went through background checks. Background checks don't work.

And you know what? Fingerprints aren't absolute. There have been cases of people who have gotten arrested, produced fake ID, and been fingerprinted. Now the poor sucker whose ID was stolen has a criminal record.

quote:

The thing is this Fore, and this is just my honest opinion: If you love the Aux that much, then go through the process again. You and I probably won't see eye to eye on many things. If we did, we would be drones. If you have that passion then put it to good use. I don't agree with some things you say and I am sure you don't agree with me. But those are the "weeds" you speak of, get rid of them for the common good of the garden.

But after everything I said, how can you even believe I would ever violate my own moral and ethical principles?

quote:

But after everything I said, how can you even believe I would ever violate my own moral and ethical principles?

I can't. Now I truly know what kind of person you are. If you don't wish to change for that and you truly believe in something then I tip my hat to you. Now, with that said, you stepped out of the garden, what ever weeds (or flowers) that grow now are no longer your concern (by your own choice). It's like if you don't vote, you don't have any right to 8itch about your local, state, and federal government.

Good luck

Out

The Aux. is New to Me. About 2 years now. I have seen some good things and some not so good.
You can find that in any group. I do see the good I can do for my area in boating and safety.
And that is why I am here. The glass will always be half full in my eyes.

Mind Over Matter! If You Don't Mind It Don't Matter.

Once again, someone has come through with info to help out a wayward member. This page has proven to be a valueable asset to the membership and a thorn to the "leadership."
Keep kvetching you all.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeAux:

quote:

But after everything I said, how can you even believe I would ever violate my own moral and ethical principles?

I can't. Now I truly know what kind of person you are. If you don't wish to change for that and you truly believe in something then I tip my hat to you. Now, with that said, you stepped out of the garden, what ever weeds (or flowers) that grow now are no longer your concern (by your own choice). It's like if you don't vote, you don't have any right to 8itch about your local, state, and federal government.

Good luck

Out

How very nice of you to flippantly dismiss me. However, I pay taxes, and my taxes go to support the DHS, Coast Guard and the Auxiliary... so I have a vested interest in what goes on in the Auxiliary.

Sorry, but I'm still here pulling weeds from the garden.. like it or not.

Flippancy is irrelevant at this point

quote:

Originally posted by MikeAux:
Flippancy is irrelevant at this point

So are your failed attempts at having me go away.

Naw, Ignorance is bliss