quote:

Originally posted by 7555925:

quote:

Originally posted by Forewatch:

quote:

Originally posted by 7555925:
Who are personally attacking for ageism? I believe that the original poster may be one of the "older Americans" you refer to and I don't believe he was minimizing them but trying to start a healthy discussion. Why must you insist on being so negative?

--M

I don't care how old the OP was, or what his/her intentions were-- it was ageism. It's interesting that you only accuse people you don't agree with as being "negative."

If it has to do with sexism, ageism, or racism.. you bet your bottom dollar I'm negative about it! Aren't you??? If not.. shame on you!

Another of your sweeping accusations. I neither said I agreed with you or disagreed with you, just pointing out your negativity and personal attacks. It is interesting that you accuse everyone of everything, particularly when you have nothing useful to add.

If under your rules for the board nobody can mention age and the impact it has on performance (pro or con) then we do indeed "live" in an environment where political correctness has gone to far.

Bruce's statistics and examples where just that, statistics and examples. For you to accuse him of ageism is bull pucky. Nowhere did Bruce suggest any form of age discrimination, a key component for your ageism charge.

--Mark

It is ageist to lump all 70 year olds in his status. Yes, age does bring on health problems for many folks.. but to make all 70 year olds sound fragile and unworthy of crewing.. c'mon.
Just because HE has problems, doesn't mean everyone over 70 be put out to pasture. Just asking the question, "Should the old guys get out of the way and let young blood in?" is offensive.

For the record, I have a relative who is 76, jogs two miles a day, has excellent hearing and excellent eyesight. If she wanted to be crew, I bet she could easily keep up with the 20 somethings-- and pass some of them by.

Most of it is keeping yourself fit.. some is dumb luck. But even suggesting people stop doing something just because of a number is ageism.

I am not suggesting quitting if you Pass the physicals associated with the job. To let the member decide if he/she can do it is begging disaster. There are some who resist ageing like the plague and go into denial. They haven't seen a doctor in years because they are afraid of what they might hear. My first heart attack was a attack of gas. All I needed was a good belch. I smoked all the way to the hospital...Not I was my answer. Read my lips make every coxswain and crew member take a physical. Hearing tests for watchstanders no matter what the age. Galley folks get physicals and blood work. Station augumentation maintenance folks get physicals. If someone won't take it it is their choice to give up the position. TYhe neigh sayers say its invasion of privacy and I am responsible for myself. Well not to repeat myself but a crew is a team in which ALL have to function. The GAR looks at everyone on the crew. I bet it boils down to the fact there won't be any more free gas if we loose our Coxswain status. Please see my new picture in my profile. Another political cartoon if you will.

I bet it boils down to the fact there won't be any more free gas if we loose our Coxswain status.

I have done some research on Aux membership stats going 'way back'. One item that pops a few times is that when gas prices go up significantly (usually do to an oil embargo) then Aux membership went up. When the gas prices go down then Aux membership follows it.

Counter-balancing that trend in this economy is that bad economies are also bad for the Aux. The Aux is an expensive hobby to have and when discretionary income gets more then pinched, it appears that Aux membership suffers. So it will be interesting to watch what happens this year. Is the free gas enough to overcome the urge to cut back on discretionary spending? There are a lot of costs to a boat, particularly a docked boat then just gas.

We have already been put on alert that REYRs could double.

quote:

It is ageist to lump all 70 year olds in his status. Yes, age does bring on health problems for many folks.. but to make all 70 year olds sound fragile and unworthy of crewing.. c'mon.
Just because HE has problems, doesn't mean everyone over 70 be put out to pasture. Just asking the question, "Should the old guys get out of the way and let young blood in?" is offensive.

For the record, I have a relative who is 76, jogs two miles a day, has excellent hearing and excellent eyesight. If she wanted to be crew, I bet she could easily keep up with the 20 somethings-- and pass some of them by.

Most of it is keeping yourself fit.. some is dumb luck. But even suggesting people stop doing something just because of a number is ageism.

I had a nice response typed up but decided it was wasted on you. Have a nice day.

--M

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I bet it boils down to the fact there won't be any more free gas if we loose our Coxswain status.

Just add another coxswain to (your) the facility. The owner of a boat doesn't have to be listed as a coxswain...

--M

quote:

Originally posted by CervantesFan:
Read my lips make every coxswain and crew member take a physical. Hearing tests for watchstanders no matter what the age.

Auxinfo shows 3,169 Coxswains and 4,181 Crewmembers. 7,350 physicals is going to get very expensive. When the VFD I was involved with got the medical professionals involved it added things like Stress tests for people over 40.

So perhaps $3/4 to $2Million to provide physicals to the OP's people. Or do we decertify our members who can't afford to pay for this themselves?

quote:

Originally posted by 7555925:

quote:

It is ageist to lump all 70 year olds in his status. Yes, age does bring on health problems for many folks.. but to make all 70 year olds sound fragile and unworthy of crewing.. c'mon.
Just because HE has problems, doesn't mean everyone over 70 be put out to pasture. Just asking the question, "Should the old guys get out of the way and let young blood in?" is offensive.

For the record, I have a relative who is 76, jogs two miles a day, has excellent hearing and excellent eyesight. If she wanted to be crew, I bet she could easily keep up with the 20 somethings-- and pass some of them by.

Most of it is keeping yourself fit.. some is dumb luck. But even suggesting people stop doing something just because of a number is ageism.

I had a nice response typed up but decided it was wasted on you. Have a nice day.

--M

I've left you speechless!

quote:

Originally posted by 0130303:

quote:

Originally posted by CervantesFan:
Read my lips make every coxswain and crew member take a physical. Hearing tests for watchstanders no matter what the age.

Auxinfo shows 3,169 Coxswains and 4,181 Crewmembers. 7,350 physicals is going to get very expensive. When the VFD I was involved with got the medical professionals involved it added things like Stress tests for people over 40.

So perhaps $3/4 to $2Million to provide physicals to the OP's people. Or do we decertify our members who can't afford to pay for this themselves?

What it costs it costs. The CG paid a lot more for PSIs. This is a life and death situation here. We could contract with the VA. Or authorize some of the PE money for it.
This is what I love about the Auxiliary its the Yeah But mentality. There is a problem with a potential solution when someone pipes up "Yeah, but it can't work because". Thats where we stop no one looks and attacks the "becauses" until a solution is found,
Cost a lot of money youy say. Is it well spent on the safety of our folks and the boating public? Yeah but we can't get the money End of case. If its worth doing follow on to either a solution or show stopper. If show stopper reevaluate the proposed solution (can it be modified to eliminate the show stopper? Don't throw away a solution at the first Yeah But or it could become a Yeah Butt!

quote:

Originally posted by CervantesFan:

quote:

Originally posted by 0130303:

quote:

Originally posted by CervantesFan:
Read my lips make every coxswain and crew member take a physical. Hearing tests for watchstanders no matter what the age.

Auxinfo shows 3,169 Coxswains and 4,181 Crewmembers. 7,350 physicals is going to get very expensive. When the VFD I was involved with got the medical professionals involved it added things like Stress tests for people over 40.

So perhaps $3/4 to $2Million to provide physicals to the OP's people. Or do we decertify our members who can't afford to pay for this themselves?

What it costs it costs. The CG paid a lot more for PSIs. This is a life and death situation here. We could contract with the VA. Or authorize some of the PE money for it.
This is what I love about the Auxiliary its the Yeah But mentality. There is a problem with a potential solution when someone pipes up "Yeah, but it can't work because". Thats where we stop no one looks and attacks the "becauses" until a solution is found,
Cost a lot of money youy say. Is it well spent on the safety of our folks and the boating public? Yeah but we can't get the money End of case. If its worth doing follow on to either a solution or show stopper. If show stopper reevaluate the proposed solution (can it be modified to eliminate the show stopper? Don't throw away a solution at the first Yeah But or it could become a Yeah Butt!

A better idea would be to issue "drivers tests and licenses" for boaters-- the same way drivers of cars get them. This should be done nationally, because it's not just Coxswains that may be unqualified to control their boat, there are plenty in the general public of all ages that don't have a clue.

You have a fair chance of some idiot in a private boat hitting you because he/she doesn't know what they are doing while you're out patroling with a competent coxswain.

quote:

This is a life and death situation here.

Not if you pay attention to statistics -- When was the last Auxie boatcrew member death? When was the last death due to something that could be attirubted to age or otherwise poor physical condition?

When was the last Auxie boatcrew member death?

The Aux for some warped sense of logic makes a big deal about air crew deaths and erects monuments to pilot error and/or stupidity. However, it is next to impossible to find out how many Auxies have died in the boat crew program and when. I know there were 2 or 3 deaths in Texas in the 80s or 90s but I could get nowhere with getting specifics other then they died in the surf zone.

Someone else posted recently that there were Aux boat crew deaths in CA but I don't know the time frame.

But deaths wouldn't be the real issue. When you are talking about Auxies hauling boaters out of the water, you should look at back and shoulder injury stats. Stats the CG either doesn't have or will not release. The Aux doesn't even have a decent Mishap Reporting and Lessons Learned System like the Gold Side does.

But the Aux does have accidents. Back when I had access to a CG work station, I saw quite a few CG messages about Auxie mishaps.

where are these stats kept. I heard of one case of an Aux death don't know circumstances I'll look for the story

quote:

But deaths wouldn't be the real issue. When you are talking about Auxies hauling boaters out of the water, you should look at back and shoulder injury stats.

I recall a NAVIGATOR article on a difficult rescue by three Auxiliarists. (2006?) The article BRIEFLY mentioned one of them suffered a very serious back injury. There were no specifics on how the injury occurred. But i could imagine.

where are these stats kept

If they are kept at all, I would suspect the DirAuxs and ChDirAux have them. The claims office might also have them.

The boat crew deaths I am aware of came from a very brief article in the 7th District publication The Breeze. It is the only reference to the deaths I ever found. The deaths occured in Texas which is 8CR.

The CA deaths were posted by someone else on this board.

There is no memorial to dead boat crew members but there are several for Auxie Airdales.

You can find a list of them on the official Memorials page. The 5th CG district has the most complete list of dead Auxie Airdales.

There are a few memorials missing from that page. For example, Fuller and Purvis who died on an AuxAir7 mission have their own memorial at CG Air Station Miami.

I am 46. One of the young ones in our group.
The person who has helped me the most get boat crew and soon Coxswain is 86. He is sharp and on his game at sea. I think the Aux helps keep him that way. He even helped our Dist. Capt. get Coxswain years ago. He makes me try harder when he gives me his time. He is PRICELESS to us.

Maybe "stats" was the wrong word, but I was referring to the very tiny, tiny number of Aux boatcrew deaths that are known (as mentioned by FL above).

While the Aux unfortunately doesn't really make much safety information known (as does CAP), the fact that we're just not over-run with deaths associated with the boatcrew program is pretty good evidence alone that overall fatal incidents are very, very, rare, so our current ancient and enfeebled (as stated by others) boatcrews seem to be handling their business acceptably well.