I remember a while back Robert Dittman posted some information that I thought would be a great recruitment incentive to help recruit people into the Aux. He found a citation that said members of the Aux can earn veteran's employment preference for civil service jobs. So Robert if you're out there would you or someone else kindly consent to reposting that citation.

I think it was an OPM citation if I remember correctly, because I think this would be really an excellent recruitment tool to help motivate people to join the Aux. Goodness knows with all the members we've lost in recent years those of us who are out helping the Aux recruitment effort definitely need all the help that we can get in providing recruiting incentives for people who join up and a chance to earn veteran's preference for joining the Aux is definitely a good recruiting incentive.

Veterans preference for Auxies doesn't exist and never did except for a very small group of Auxies who served between June 23, 1939 and February 19, 1941.

Robert's citation and forum thread lead directly to this AuxKB that provides the correct answer.

Thanks...I was looking for that to post it. My recollection was that unless you have a DD214 and someone was shooting/throwing rocks at you (and it was pre 1941) then it is a no-go.

--M

Why is it that the 1939-1941 Auxies received veterans points? They were civilians too even though the organization was named the Coast Guard Reserve at the time. Not questioning the fact that they would, just the motivation behind it.

Thnx for the good posts. I could have sworn Robert posted a link to the OPM that specifically had Coast Guard Aux in there listing for folks who are entitle to veteran's preference. But did I imagine that because I went back to try to find that thread and I can't find it. Could anybody help out and find that old thread and give a link to it? Thnx.

I just figured it would be a great recruitment tool to get people to join the Aux if we could show legitimately from the OPM that they will receive a veterans preference for their patriotic service.

It's my understanding that during WWII the Auxies/Reservists/Volunteers were conducting actual armed patrols along the coasts, looking for submarines, etc...

I've read a story about an Auxie boat that actually attacked a surfaced German Submarine off the east coast.

That must be the reason for the veterans points.

Very nice article on the Auxiliary during those times:
http://www.cgauxinternational.org/AuxHx.pdf

http://books.google.com/books?id=T5A9LCujs08C&pg=PA78&l...tDXBTRApHwBPow&hl=en

I could have sworn Robert posted a link to the OPM that specifically had Coast Guard Aux in there listing for folks who are entitle to veteran's preference.

He did but he got the law wrong. The OPM Veterans preference only applies to Auxies who served during the dates given above. No Auxie who joined after those dates can claim it.

Could anybody help out and find that old thread and give a link to it?

Threads get purged after not getting posted to for a while - I don't know what the time frame is. That thread is old enouogh that it was probably purged.

That being said, the OPM isn't hard to find. This is the link to the
OPM Vet Guide Appendix B: Uniformed Service Qualifying for Veterans Preference Purposes that lists the Aux.

However, telling a new recruit that they would qualify based on that document would be fraudulent and deceptive.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: FL51D7,

Yeah, the OPM's document is just not precise enough.

As to the vet points, the period for which Auxie are eligible doesn't actually include any of WWII.

Many Auxies also served in the Temporary Reserve.Possibly those who served in a paid status (there was an unpaid status also) were considered military and entitled to veterans status.

The TRs are covered in that chart also. The only TRs who were entitled to Vet Pref are:

quote:

Members enrolled for full-time duty with military pay and allowances other than for uniforms

The following TRs did not get it:

quote:

Members enrolled for part-time or intermittent duty without pay and allowances for uniforms

Pilots without pay and allowances other than for uniforms

Officers of Great Lakes vessels without pay and allowances other than for uniforms

Coast Guard police without pay and allowances

Civil Service employees of the Coast Guard without pay other than compensation of their civilian positions

The CG Police were, for the most part, private security guards, that the US Navy militarized and then transferred to the CG Police/TRs. It was a quick, dirty and handy solution to the problem. The CG Police were still paid by their civilian employers and maintained their employee benefits.

Some of the civil service employees were NWS weatherman who were militarized and put on Navy and CG ships and cutters. They also retained their government civilian pay and benefits.

The SPARS also get it if they were on AD.

Members of the Civil Air Patrol also did not get Vet Pref.

There are two Supreme Court cases that deal with the TRs and Vet Pref. They should shed light on why Auxies, other then the very small early group, don't get it and shouldn't get it.

The first case is Mitchell v. Cohen, 333 U.S. 411. Mitchell involved Vet Pref in federal hiring. The second case is Commissioner of Internal Revenue v. Connelly et al 338 US 258. Connelly dealt with a vet pref for excluding certain income from US Income Taxes.

The key finding is in Mitchell which was then applied to Connelly. The Mithcell finding is:

quote:

In the light of the very clear purpose which Congress had in mind in adopting the Veterans' Preference Act, we are constrained to define the term 'ex-servicemen,' for the purposes of this particular statute, as relating only to those who performed military service on full-time active duty with military pay and allowances, thereby dislocating the fabric of their normal economic and social life. It thus becomes obvious that respondents' service with the Volunteer Port Security Force of the Coast Guard Reserve cannot qualify them as 'ex-servicemen' entitled to veterans' preference under this enactment. They continued their normal civilian employment with the War Department and the Navy Department during the war, employment which suffered as little as possible from their military service; they served on active duty for only relatively short periods each week and could be disenrolled at their own request; they received no military pay and very few allowances; they could not be transferred away from their homes without their consent. They were therefore able to retain the essential elements of their civilian life. As to them, there was no problem of reemployment or rehabilitation caused by their military service. They are not among the 'ex-servicemen' whom Congress desired to assist by means of the Veterans' Preference Act.

In Connelly, SCOTUS agreed that by 'long-established criteria-oath of office, military duty, and subjection to military discipline' taxpayer had acquired a military status'. However, in reading the statute the Supremes did not rely on that status as the determining factor. Instead, they stated:

quote:

It seems equally plain that if he received his pay as a civil service employee and served without military pay and allowances, he is not entitled to the claimed exclusion.

The defining factor for the Supremes was whether or not the member had received military pay. If civilian pay in a military capacity did not qualify a member for Vet Pref then strictly volunteer work certainly would not.

quote:

Originally posted by galleypig:
Thnx for the good posts. I could have sworn Robert posted a link to the OPM that specifically had Coast Guard Aux in there listing for folks who are entitle to veteran's preference. But did I imagine that because I went back to try to find that thread and I can't find it. Could anybody help out and find that old thread and give a link to it? Thnx.

I just figured it would be a great recruitment tool to get people to join the Aux if we could show legitimately from the OPM that they will receive a veterans preference for their patriotic service.

If you look at some of the States' Veterans Policies you will see that the USCG Aux is often specifically excluded.

--M

Not that the AUX does not contribute a lot to the CG but it’s not the same as Active or Reserve service. AUX members do not make near the sacrifices that Active or Reserve members do. There are additional preference points given to Active and Reserve members who have a disability rating, members who have served in Combat or members who have served in certain Campaigns or Expeditions. AUX members can walk away if they disagree with the rules or refuse to follow directions and suffer no consequences for those actions. Thanks for your service

Well put Chief. Thank you for your service!

--M

There are tax benefits available for Auxiliarists who want to itemize expenditures for uniforms and mileage, and a few states provide some tax relief for Auxiliarists meeting certain criteria, but I can't imagine anybody joining for financial reasons. It's best that way.

The original poster's point about the need for better recruitment remains, though. I think we could do a better job with online recruitment at the national level. Prospective members who type in "coast guard auxiliary" in a search engine are going to get this site. When you hit the "Join the Auxiliary" link at that site you end up here, which is not a very helpful site for recruitment purposes. It has only one photo and links to DHS, USCG, local Auxiliary websites, and back to the nws.cgaux.org site.

Cajun, I don't think you will find anyone here campaigning for current Auxies to have vet preference. However, I do think that more of the Temporary Reservists who served in WWII probably should have been given something, but unfortunately, that issue will be resolved in the not so distant future.

Your right John they should. I read a story about an older Gentleman who when asked what he would do if he happened to encounter a German Sub he simply replied "I have lived a good life so ramming it would be my honor.” I don’t feel giving them Veterans preference points would do them any good. I do think simply recognizing them in the proper manner would be the right thing to do. Preference points at this point in time would do absolutely no good for them based on their age alone. The original poster galleypig was asking about Preference Points for Aux service and I simply gave my opinion. Sorry I don’t feel Aux members deserve any Preference Points based on Aux Service but it is what it is. I think Aux members who have prior service will certainly agree. I still think Aux members are a great addition to the CG. So that is the reason I wrote my initial response. Aux members contribute much to the CG and I thank you all for your contributions and service.