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Basic Training |
Would like some feed back on the following. I personally fell off a vessel when exiting after a vsc. Landed on the dock but I have immediately stopped doing them
Thanks Do not require physical exams for crew. Many are over 70 In 2006 District 01SR had 872 members over 70 years of age out of 3856 One of our crewmen (a multiple stroke victim) fell overboard while on patrol. A 71 year old crew member went into hypothermia during swim test. o Flotilla Commander just watched Are the RAG assessments being handled correctly? or is it all about the free gas? Some average ages of active members o Average Age of the Active (includes APs) of the 3 areas: PACAREA: 58.5 LANTAREA East: 58.8 LANTAREA West: 59.4 o 1SR average age 55.3; Division 22 56.5. Division 22 has an extremely wide variations in average age from 46.6 to 67.3 across flotillas Should the old guys get out of the way and let young blood in? |
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We have met the enemy and he is us. Pogo |
Do not require physical exams for crew.
Not quite true. You do have to pass a swim test to first get qualified. You are correct that there is no test after that. In contrast, in the Air Program you must pass a 3 lap swim test and climb into a raft (with assistance) from deep water every year. One of our crewmen (a multiple stroke victim) fell overboard while on patrol. More importantly - why did he fall overboard. Is it something he did, did he just get clumsy or did the coxswain slam the throttles in and not alert the crew before he did so? Next in importance - how did the crew man get back aboard. Are the RAG assessments being handled correctly? What is a RAG assessment? Should the old guys get out of the way and let young blood in? There are limits in the aviation program, at least in D7, as to how many members may participate. There are no such limits for the BCQP, therefore the old guys aren't blocking the (non-existent) young blood from getting into anything. BTW - without the old guys around there will no one to mentor and qualify the young blood - should they ever show up. |
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Experienced Member |
Are you saying that you feel you are too old and infirm to do VSCs and that you stopped because of the accident or that you are young and in shape but stopped because of fear of falling again? There is nothing much keeping a young boat owner from becoming a coxswain and patrolling to his heart's (or the CG budget)content. Heck, the vast majority of CG Aux programs are pretty open to anyone who wants to do them. That being said, I wouldn't be opposed to some minimal physical fitness requirements for Aux boatcrew operations. |
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Experienced Member |
The swim test is a joke. You wore a life jacket and your clothes and paddled from one end of a small hotel pool to the other any way you liked, on your back if you wanted. If you can breath, you can pass the swim test.
I did it without the life jacket, and it was a piece of cake. On to the other stuff.. wow.. ageism at its best! It's not about how old you are, it's about how well you keep your body in shape. My goodness, have a look at any Masters National Championships. You'll see some 80 year olds that can put most 20 year olds to shame. So what is this crap about "the old guys getting out of the way and letting young blood in." Why are older Americans constantly minimized? Hello.. diversity training! |
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Member |
Who are personally attacking for ageism? I believe that the original poster may be one of the "older Americans" you refer to and I don't believe he was minimizing them but trying to start a healthy discussion. Why must you insist on being so negative?
--M |
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Basic Training |
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Basic Training |
Boating is dangerous. We can do certain things to make it safer but only to a point. Safety at any age is about recognizing your limits. If you're a 71 year old stroke victim and you fell overboard because you couldn't handle it, then couldn't get back because you couldn't handle it well then perhaps you died doing what you love.
Every crewmember or Coxswain should be able to care for himself at the very least. |
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Experienced Member |
I don't care how old the OP was, or what his/her intentions were-- it was ageism. It's interesting that you only accuse people you don't agree with as being "negative." If it has to do with sexism, ageism, or racism.. you bet your bottom dollar I'm negative about it! Aren't you??? If not.. shame on you! |
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Basic Training |
Ultimatly the Coxswain is responsible for everyone on board the facility. In acceptinig orders and assigning others to duty he/she is stating that they meet the requirements. The difficulty from a Policy/Rulemaking standpoint is the tremendous difference in the physical requirements of our various facilities. Recovering a PIW from a Bass Boat vs. Center Console vs. Trawler etc. As too age it is only a statistic. You have to look at each individual. |
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Basic Training |
Had some other thoughts to throw in
1. Although the goldside certifies their coxswains they have to be physically fit and to prove it. The aux certifies coxswains but there are no physical requirements So the roles are not the same. 2. You folks who are saying its "every member for themself" are not really saying they would crew with a coxswain who has limited eyesight are you? TCT says we have to speak up about these situations because the entire team could be at risk. 3. If we have accidents the liability rest with the Coast Guard. Therefore they don't use us when the risk is high. 4. Not requiring physicals when lives are in danger is ludicrous. It may invade my privacy but if I want to play in that game I better be able to show that I won't kill you |
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We have met the enemy and he is us. Pogo |
You folks who are saying its "every member for themself" are not really saying they would crew with a coxswain who has limited eyesight are you?
It happens a lot. The sad state of the BCQP is to blame. You must have missed our thread of a year or more ago about 'perpetual trainees' and 'coxswains-in-name-only'. The latter is to your point today. It is not uncommon for the few coxswains in some flotillas to be ill or just over-the-hill. Many of them have many years before the mast. Their crews have usually crewed with them for years (often more then a decade). The crews know the boat and the AOR like the back of their hand. So the flotilla and crews are faced with a hard reality. Stand the coxswains down and lose facilities and then the members when they cannot patrol anymore or let the coxswains get orders and have the crews run the boat. Yes boys and girls it is not unknown for coxswains-in-name-only to spend the entire patrol down in the cabin taking a nap. Truth be told - I have been on several of these patrols myself. The only real danger is when the coxswain doesn't realize that he is no longer fit but tries to run the boat and patrol anyway. These you have to avoid like the plague. They injure people. And FWIW - I personnally know a few still active coxswains who fall into this category as well. I was injured by one of them (just short of an emergency room visit). The solution there is to try and warn off the crew members about patrolling with the guy. |
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A bad day on the water beats a good day at the office. |
FL, maybe "RAG" was a typo for "GAR" assessments.
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Member |
I don't know about brown water, but on blue water I want a coxswain who has plenty of experience with being out on the briny sea. The ocean does not suffer fools gladly. As an aside, our latest wannabee, who got axed by the Gold side, was in his early thirties. Nuff said?
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Basic Training |
Anc
It really isn't the age its the health risks that copme with age. On the Gold side physicals are a must to protect onesself and the rest of the crew. On our side its an intrusion which if done fairly would save our lives. All OPS folks must undergo phsicals no matter what job they take on. I work in my station's galley. If I am openly sick I can't work. But suppose I am harboring a communicable disease Let's say TB. I don't even know it but I am a carrier. I know of a case where a gentleman (age doesn't matter here) was a certified watch stander. He happens to be totally deaf in one ear. Qualified to handle multievent situations. I don't think so It escapes me why folks so object to common sense. I bet I know If they get disqualified as Coxswains there will be no more free gas.  |
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Member |
Hi Ancora: Just another point-of-view from here. Our AOR is the Columbia/Willamette Rivers. About 100 miles of Columbia and about 40 miles of Willamette. We patrol all year round in daylight and dark. Every come-upon in the Columbia River is considered a legitimate distress. So we tow more often than most. That's because we experience 100 plus to below freezing, snow, sleet, and very heavy rain. We experience dense fog, winds from 15 to 50 mph (with little warning), the river is very cold, usually below 50 degrees so we wear mustangs or dry-suits spring winter and fall. The river is swift, 3 to 11 knots. We often see four to six foot square waves when the tide is flowing and the wind is up. We go out when the USCG cannot in their small boats. The rivers are full of debris at times, floating logs, trees, stumps,deadheads, etc. Intense lookout is the norm. Traffic is heavy with freighters, tugs and barges and several hundred or more boaters in summer. Huge recreational fishing "hog-lines" block navigation during the season. Navigation is complicated with sandbars, rocks, poorly marked channels and many complex buoys and light patterns. Running ranges fore and aft at night is normal. Non Aux, I occasionally run my big boat offshore on the Oregon and Washington coasts. So while I have great respect for the ocean and have had the crap e out there, I am much more relaxed out there than when patrolling our AOR. Just another point of view <G>. |
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Basic Training |
Thats correct.
Given I meant Gar how about some experiences Thanks Bruce |
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Member |
ENGLJ, you must be more than qualified to survive in that hostile AOR. Here in San Diego, conditions are a whole lot more benevolent.
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Experienced Member |
Lets keep in mind that we are pretty much prevented from doing any really strenuous work while on patrol that any other boater of any age wouldn't be doing anyway. CG boatcrews are expected to do a lot more than we are and in worse conditions and accordingly have higher standards.
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Member |
Another of your sweeping accusations. I neither said I agreed with you or disagreed with you, just pointing out your negativity and personal attacks. It is interesting that you accuse everyone of everything, particularly when you have nothing useful to add. If under your rules for the board nobody can mention age and the impact it has on performance (pro or con) then we do indeed "live" in an environment where political correctness has gone to far. Bruce's statistics and examples where just that, statistics and examples. For you to accuse him of ageism is bull pucky. Nowhere did Bruce suggest any form of age discrimination, a key component for your ageism charge. --Mark |
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Basic Training |
As a septogenerian (If thats the right term) I understand other folks putting limits on what I can do or not do. Not only for my safety but theirs as well. Let me be open here.
Here are my health issues that I have noticed with age, My balance and equilibrium are getting worse. I fell down 9 steps at a pet store recently. Just bruises (lucky me) Didn't slip just fell. Every spring for the last 3 I have fallen out of my Dingy. I use the launch to my boat ok as long as the bimini is up for me to board with. My hearing is going 2x hearing aids for me Also out of the com room What hasn't failed is my mind. I love to solve problems by thinking out of the box and being inovative. Here is where there is a disconnect with the leadership. Solving problems means potential change. To problem solvers change is good to our leadership change is bad. To change means work. In the study I saw of D7 today work would be new to those folks. I guess what I am trying to say here is that if the old thinking old folks were replaced by the young thinking old folks the environment would be a lot more receptive to change. The contributions of all would then be given a respectful hearing. The young thinking young folks could work with the young thinking old folks to make the Auxiliary a better place for all. I believe retention would be up and attraction of younger members would improve. Awards could be given for innovation, initiative and enthusiasm. Tell me folks does that sound like I am an agest? I doze off fairly often. |
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