I just received my summer 2007 Navigator. On pages 16&17 they have a story titled “Training at Tracen: DIV-8 DSNR instructors augment faculty at Cape May Facility”.

I am not a stickler for uniform rules, but aren’t those augmenting supposed to be wearing member insignia and not office insignia like the augmentees are doing in the three pictures.

I support augmentation. I am glad these Auxies are doing what they can to help the Coast Guard. I respect them for all they work they do. But if they are going to represent the Auxiliary to the Coast Guard, and then be in a magazine that tens of thousands of Auxies and Coasties get, shouldn’t they be following uniform regulations?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Peale1,

That is the general rule, but more than a few Auxies on this board have told stories about how their local CG units okayed or even encouraged them to wear their member devices while augmenting. While I'm not shy about pointing out uniform violations in the Navigator, in this case you can't assume that in this instance they've been told to wear it.

quote:

Originally posted by RiverAux:
That is the general rule, but more than a few Auxies on this board have told stories about how their local CG units okayed or even encouraged them to wear their member devices while augmenting. While I'm not shy about pointing out uniform violations in the Navigator, in this case you can't assume that in this instance they've been told to wear it.

I agree, that's what I was thinking too. You would think at a place like Cape May though and with them working with recruits they would do everything they could to reduce confusion when an Auxie looks like he is wearing Captain insignia.

Or a recruit might be confused when an E-2 walks by an Auxie and doesn’t even look his way, much else salute him. If I was a recruit who wasn’t working with the Auxies and didn’t know what an Auxie was, I would be confused.

When I was in Army basic we had CAP officers (yes, I’ll pay my fine!) trolling for salutes. One even started to dress down a private for not saluting till a DS saw it and ran him off. That incident left a bad taste in my mouth.

Because I am in my early 30s and in shape I have been mistaken as a Coasite officer several times when on bases. When I now go to Cape May and other military bases I wear member’s device, even when only training.

quote:

You would think at a place like Cape May though and with them working with recruits they would do everything they could to reduce confusion when an Auxie looks like he is wearing Captain insignia. Or they might be confused when an E-2 walks by an Auxie and doesn’t even look his way, much else salute him. If I was a recruit who wasn’t working with the Auxies and didn’t know what an Auxie was, I would be confused.

OTOH, perhaps this is the best time and venue to teach them the meaning of the SILVER and the GOLD -- the different insignia they will likely run into when they are out in the fleet: the differences between the CG Officer insignia and the AUXIE "Office" insignia. It is at this point in their CG career they are probably most open to learning.

...gjd

quote:

Originally posted by geejaydee:

quote:

You would think at a place like Cape May though and with them working with recruits they would do everything they could to reduce confusion when an Auxie looks like he is wearing Captain insignia. Or they might be confused when an E-2 walks by an Auxie and doesn’t even look his way, much else salute him. If I was a recruit who wasn’t working with the Auxies and didn’t know what an Auxie was, I would be confused.

OTOH, perhaps this is the best time and venue to teach them the meaning of the SILVER and the GOLD -- the different insignia they will likely run into when they are out in the fleet: the differences between the CG Officer insignia and the AUXIE "Office" insignia. It is at this point in their CG career they are probably most open to learning.

...gjd

I have seen too many Auxies trolling for salutes. Those Coasties have enough things to worry about than why an "Ensign" is 60 years old and 80lbs overweight.

They will learn about Silver and Gold soon enough, it’s not really a hard concept for an adult to learn. But lets not let them get carpal tunnel of the right hand from saluting those who don't deserve a salute.

I think we should be like CAP, if you are not in the height-weight standards of the Coast Guard, you do not wear a Coast Guard uniform. I am tired of seeing somebody wearing a shirt so large you can't see their belt.

Uh oh...the dreaded "CAP" reference. Talk about trolling for salutes!

CAP would get much more respect from the AD if they'd drop the "Ranks" -- and use of unmodified insignia.

I'm with you though on the physical standards for wearing the uniform. The blue blazer is an option for those outside the normal uniform physique. However, it doesn't lend itself to operational use.

They made the tunic top (maternity top ) acceptable for use by the plus-size females with the tropical blue long -- but no accomodation exists for the males, other than the blue blazer.

EDIT to add: The "untucked" ODUs are on the may...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: flyandscuba,

I highly doubt that Auxies devoting their time to training new CG recruits are doing it for the salutes that they might accidentally get now and again.

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I think we should be like CAP, if you are not in the height-weight standards of the Coast Guard, you do not wear a Coast Guard uniform. I am tired of seeing somebody wearing a shirt so large you can't see their belt.

1. I don't know about the Army, the Air Force, or the unmentionable Air Force Auxiliary -- nor do I particularly want to -- but through most of its existence the Coast Guard worried more about the results (getting the job done) than the niceties of grooming and sartorial correctness.

2. Also, again at least in the Old Guard's boot camp, we kind of went by the traditional military rule of "If it moves, salute it; if it doesn't move, pick it up; if you can't pick it up, paint it." (Of course this had little to do with what would be encountered after graduation, but it did keep "us skinheads" somewhat in line.)

3. I think of this attitude lingers on even in the current PC, military-oriented, business model Coast Guard. I doubt if the CG Airedales who were the heroes of Katrina made sure they were presenting an acceptable "appearance" before they responded. Hell, they hardly had to wait for "orders from higher up" to go out and do the job. How unmilitary, un-Army, un-Air Force that is!!!

4. If any Auxies are actually "trolling for salutes," I bet it's the pretty boys (and girls) who are slim and trim, clean shaven, and wearing immaculate uniforms with all the silver shined and in the right location.

Well, that's my opinion -- for what its worth.

quote:

Posted by flyandscuba
I'm with you though on the physical standards for wearing the uniform. The blue blazer is an option for those outside the normal uniform physique. However, it doesn't lend itself to operational use.

As noted elsewhere in this forum, neither does the ODU lend itself to operational use. It would be better and more simple to resurrect the Seafarer dungarees and chambray shirt for both the Auxiliary and the Active Duty folks. This "uniform" is comfortable, neither military-looking nor pretentious, doesn't induce anyone to inappropriately salute the wearer.

Ex Regular Enlisted Coast Guardsman, current AUXIE, 7 years over 60, and a bit overweight sends...

...gjd

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I think we should be like CAP, if you are not in the height-weight standards of the Coast Guard, you do not wear a Coast Guard uniform.

About the time you try to apply the physical standards used for active duty folks to the Aux I suspect you will discover you have a MUCH smaller Auxiliary. Based on things I have read here it sounds like most members are well past the age of those on active duty. Funny thing about time......it changes your body.

Is it more important to have people that can do the job, or to have people that look like dress shop dummies in an Aux uniform?

When I was on active duty I served with many that would not meet today's silly weight standards...but they could reach over the side of a small boat and pull a person from the water quite effectively.

We repersent the Coast Guard. I am not a uniform Nazi. But if you have to special order your shirts because the UDC doesn't stock that size, don't wear a uniform!

I have seen plently of younger Auxies that are squeezing into ODUs wear the buttoms are screaming for help.

I have nothing against overweight people. At age 16 I weighed 345lbs, but lost it over a year to get into the military. I know it is not easy.

Depending on exactly how NIMS is instituted in the Auxiliary, I would not be at all surprised to see some sort of physical tests associated with boatcrew and maybe aircrew positions -- most other SAR jobs will have some sort of physical requirement in them. Probably no associated weight requirements though.

QUOTE]Originally posted by geejaydee:

quote:

I think we should be like CAP, if you are not in the height-weight standards of the Coast Guard, you do not wear a Coast Guard uniform. I am tired of seeing somebody wearing a shirt so large you can't see their belt.

1. I don't know about the Army, the Air Force, or the unmentionable Air Force Auxiliary -- nor do I particularly want to -- but through most of its existence the Coast Guard worried more about the results (getting the job done) than the niceties of grooming and sartorial correctn

You’re representing the Coast Guard. I have seen enough ring-around-the-collar, crap hanging off belts, white tennis shoes with ODUs, and other crap that shows the person wearing the uniform has no pride in themselves. They make the CG and Auxiliary look bad,

2. Also, again at least in the Old Guard's boot camp, we kind of went by the traditional military rule of "If it moves, salute it; if it doesn't move, pick it up; if you can't pick it up, paint it." (Of course this had little to do with what would be encountered after graduation, but it did keep "us skinheads" somewhat in line.)

We should appear neat and professional in front of Coastie recruits. Do you want their image of the Auxiliary to be what you see at your flotilla meetings?

3. I think of this attitude lingers on even in the current PC, military-oriented, business model Coast Guard. I doubt if the CG Airedales who were the heroes of Katrina made sure they were presenting an acceptable "appearance" before they responded. Hell, they hardly had to wait for "orders from higher up" to go out and do the job. How unmilitary, un-Army, un-Air Force that is!!!


Do you think those Airedales in New Orleans dressed like slobs at home station? They are some of the best groomed Coasties I have ever seen. They take pride in their appearance and do not consider it vanity but professionalism.

4. If any Auxies are actually "trolling for salutes," I bet it's the pretty boys (and girls) who are slim and trim, clean shaven, and wearing immaculate uniforms with all the silver shined and in the right location.

Haven’t seen too many of those slim and trim crowd. By your comment it seems like you have a little resentment to anyone that takes pride in their appearance. Your contempt for looking somewhat decent in a uniform is what makes the Auxiliary look like a bunch of slobs to the CG. Take pride in your appearance or don’t wear the uniform, simple as that!

Well, that's my opinion -- for what its worth.

quote:

Posted by flyandscuba
I'm with you though on the physical standards for wearing the uniform. The blue blazer is an option for those outside the normal uniform physique. However, it doesn't lend itself to operational use.

As noted elsewhere in this forum, neither does the ODU lend itself to operational use. It would be better and more simple to resurrect the Seafarer dungarees and chambray shirt for both the Auxiliary and the Active Duty folks. This "uniform" is comfortable, neither military-looking nor pretentious, doesn't induce anyone to inappropriately salute the wearer.

Ex Regular Enlisted Coast Guardsman, current AUXIE, 7 years over 60, and a bit overweight sends...

...gjd[/QUOTE]

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Peale1,

quote:

I have nothing against overweight people. At age 16 I weighed 345lbs, but lost it over a year to get into the military. I know it is not easy.

At age 50 or 60 it gets a bit tougher.

It sounds to me like you are advocating that some wear one uniform, others wear another. So much for a "uniform" appearance.

By the way, I'm 6'1" and weigh 162, so my opinions are not based on my own appearance.

Pushing for weight standards will result in a dramatic decrease in the size of the Auxiliary. And that would be a damn shame. So maybe some don't look great; are they doing the job? Isn't that what is really important?

quote:

Originally posted by Ex_CG_GM:

quote:

I have nothing against overweight people. At age 16 I weighed 345lbs, but lost it over a year to get into the military. I know it is not easy.

At age 50 or 60 it gets a bit tougher.

It sounds to me like you are advocating that some wear one uniform, others wear another. So much for a "uniform" appearance.

By the way, I'm 6'1" and weigh 162, so my opinions are not based on my own appearance.

Pushing for weight standards will result in a dramatic decrease in the size of the Auxiliary. And that would be a damn shame. So maybe some don't look great; are they doing the job? Isn't that what is really important?

I think weight standards should only apply to uniforms ans certian programs.

Losing 180lbs at any age is pretty hard!

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Losing 180lbs at any age is pretty hard!

In the Fall of 2006, I lost a little over 100 lbs in 4 months. (Of course it helped being sequestered in a hospital and rehab facility for that period of time -- taking large doses of Lasix and being subject to a heavily controlled diet (read: "very little food").

If you read this forum's AD threads, or if you visit a CG facility (like CGI), you'll discover there are many Regular Coast Guard members who do not meat the CG's own standards.

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I have nothing against overweight people.

That's akin to and as bigoted as saying, "Some of my best friends are Black," or ". . . Gay," or ". . . Jewish," etc.

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At age 16 I weighed 345lbs, but lost it over a year to get into the military. . .

You seem to hold the same kind of resentment of others in your previous situation, as held by some converts to Catholicism, or some African-Americans who rose from the ghetto to the professional classes: A supercilious attitude plaguing many who feel they have "made it," and who feel that those who haven't should be disdained and punished.

End of rant....

...gjd

quote:

Originally posted by Peale1:
I think we should be like CAP, if you are not in the height-weight standards of the Coast Guard, you do not wear a Coast Guard uniform. I am tired of seeing somebody wearing a shirt so large you can't see their belt.

You said the "C" word... that will be one dollar, please!

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I think weight standards should only apply to uniforms ans certian programs.

So you suggest some in the Aux should wear uniforms and others should wear something different? And just how does the public react to that? Also, who becomes the arbiter of fashion? Who says "Sorry, you are now too fat to wear a uniform."?

As GJD pointed out (and I have seen), there are quite a few active duty folks that don't meet the existing weight standards.

I think more should be focused on the value an individual brings to the Aux., not whether they look good in uniform.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Ex_CG_GM,

quote:

Originally posted by geejaydee:

quote:

Losing 180lbs at any age is pretty hard!

In the Fall of 2006, I lost a little over 100 lbs in 4 months. (Of course it helped being sequestered in a hospital and rehab facility for that period of time -- taking large doses of Lasix and being subject to a heavily controlled diet (read: "very little food").

If you read this forum's AD threads, or if you visit a CG facility (like CGI), you'll discover there are many Regular Coast Guard members who do not meat the CG's own standards.

quote:

I have nothing against overweight people.

That's akin to and as bigoted as saying, "Some of my best friends are Black," or ". . . Gay," or ". . . Jewish," etc.

quote:

At age 16 I weighed 345lbs, but lost it over a year to get into the military. . .

You seem to hold the same kind of resentment of others in your previous situation, as held by some converts to Catholicism, or some African-Americans who rose from the ghetto to the professional classes: A supercilious attitude plaguing many who feel they have "made it," and who feel that those who haven't should be disdained and punished.

End of rant....

...gjd

You are part of the problem. Excuses, excuses, excuses. The Coasties out of shape will someday get the boot.

Your religious-conversion argument is a weak. Pretty selfish of me not wanting people to get Type II diabetes, heart disease, strokes, heart attacks, or having a life of misery, because when you are fat it sucks! I think you know what I am talking about. I think that is a little different than a born-again Christian trying to convert you.

I feel bad for those people who are overweight. I suffered the first 17 years of my life by being overweight. Try being 180lbs overweight in high school and think about how you would like it. It was not fun, no dates, no dances, praying you would not do ‘skin/shirts” basketball in gym class. I could go on and on. I don’t look at people who are overweight with disdain; I just wish I could help them all.

If someone wants to be overweight and in the Auxiliary, I have no problem with that. But you shouldn’t be allowed to wear the uniform if you are 25 lbs over the CG weight limit for your age/height/weight.

Also Auxies should wear the uniform correctly. No keys on your belt, clean uniforms, the right shoes, no pens sticking out of pockets, etc, etc. We are not the Gold side but that doesn’t mean we should look less professional. What you look like is the first impression you project.

quote:

Originally posted by Ex_CG_GM:

quote:

I think weight standards should only apply to uniforms ans certian programs.

So you suggest some in the Aux should wear uniforms and others should wear something different? And just how does the public react to that?

As GJD pointed out (and I have seen), there are quite a few active duty folks that don't meet the existing weight standards.

I think more should be focused on the value an inidvidual brings to the Aux., not whether they look good in uniform.

It’s not so much looking good in a uniform. But how about meeting me have way and saying no matter how much you weigh, you should wear the uniform to Coast Guard standards and be neat and professional looking. How is anyone supposed to take a person seriously if they could care less bout their appearance? I don’t care if the person is wearing jeans and an AC/DC shirt, but if you are going to represent the Auxiliary don’t look like a slob. What kind of value does a person bring if they don't care how they look.

So being overweight = slob?

I'm sure all of the people who have Lupus, Graves Disease, Hypothyroidism, Cushings Disease and other conditions that make being thin difficult, if not impossible will appreciate that comment.