quote:

Actually, it's a personal attack

Actually it was a joke. (Note the emoticon!) Lighten up. Your bigotry is showing. (No joke)

...gjd

quote:

Originally posted by geejaydee:

quote:

And to GeeJay... regarding the pertinence of the Canadian girl who was not allowed to wear a scarf in judo.. the referee was upholding INTERNATIONAL Judo rules. Just because this happened in Canada, doesn't matter. It is prohibited in the INTERNATIONAL rules.

I don't know about Canada, but "International" judo rules are rules of a private organization, and do not trump the U. S. Constitution. If it happened in the United States, and if the Judo organization received Federal funding, then it would be unconstitutional.

...gjd

Wrong. There are judo programs funded by public schools. They must abide by the same International Judo Federation rules.

Now getting back to your name calling. I find it interesting that it's always a "joke" when you are caught launching a personal attack. Speaking of bigotry.. making fun of a person's nationality is bigotry.

Kettle = Black

Ah.. I missed these arguments with you. They're fun.

This is an interesting issue on several planes. First of all, I am so provincial that I am unable to comprehend why any female would adhere to any religion that enforces Shar'ia; the latest example of which is that a rape victim was sentenced to 90 lashes for allowing herself to be alone with a man not her husband. Then there is the case of the man beheaded in front of his children for wearing western clothing. I realize that our correspondent has attributed such incidents to a confusion by those in power of class distinctions with religion, but it still seems indefensible to me, and what really irritates me is that they want to impose their flawed values on me. By force.

16358498 - Aren't you glad you asked this group now? As you may have figured out, their opinions are exactly that - opinions, and certainly not policy. This afternoon, I saw the Director of Auxiliary in the district you'd join, if you decide to join. Her answer was "Whatever is in the uniform regs is what we permit." At this point it's between you and your prospective flotilla. Good luck and thanks for your interest in our organization

quote:

Originally posted by FL51D7:
ALCOAST 011/07: RESULTS OF UNIFORM BOARD NO. 41

quote:

I. …………………………………. IT MUST BE OF A STYLE AND SIZE THAT IT CAN BE COMPLETELY COVERED BY, AND NOT INTERFERE WITH, THE WEARING OR APPEARANCE OF ANY UNIFORM MILITARY HEADGEAR, WHETHER OR NOT THE UNIFORM HEADGEAR IS BEING WORN. IT CANNOT INTERFERE WITH THE PROPER WEAR OR FUNCTIONING OF PROTECTIVE CLOTHING OR EQUIPMENT…………………….

These specific words in the ALLCOAST say it all.

These specific words in the ALLCOAST say it all.

How those words got that way says it all. A disgruntled prospective member, not liking what the AuxMan said (and still does), went to the media, Congress and everyone else who would listen - and got it changed.

Thereby opening up Pandora's Box for the next propsective member who does not like the latest iteration to do the same thing - giving the Aux and the CG a PR Disaster of Epic Propostions in the process.

Or the Aux and the CG can take the Moral High Ground, admit the current policy is no longer defensible (given the total changes Jack got) and change it for all religions and genders.

And if they wanted to go to the summit of the Moral High Ground, they could even stock the various religious headgear in CG Blue in the warehouse.

I want a Hassidim hat in blue with built-in dreadlocks.

There are times and places to stir up a "PR disaster of Epic Proportions". I should know, I helped whip one up on an unrelated issue. I don't know what Jack went through, but if I get asked to take off the scarf or leave, I'll go quietly, but to stick to that line will be the CGAux's loss. As stated in a previous post, they aren't exactly being bombarded by volunteers, and I know loads of Muslim women who studied for professions, and are looking for a valuable way to serve.
The US is a work in progress, with definitions of nationality, patriotism, and who is allowed access to certain levels of society always in flux. These definitions have changed in response to new Americans bringing older traditions to bear on the culture, and Americans redefining themselves. I don't think we want to return to the days when women's contributions to society were limited by law and custom, and when "No Irish need apply". For each new and more established American, I believe each should have the opportunity to serve and contribute to society, as I believe that each of us bears that responsibility. When you refuse someone the opportunity to serve, you also give them permission not to serve. Personally, I'm not quite comfortable with that free pass.

quote:

Originally posted by 16016989:
I want a Hassidim hat in blue with built-in dreadlocks.

Tee hee- Trying to conceal a thinning hairline, are we?
See, the REAL reason Muslim women cover stems from the traditional creativity of Muslims. We've pioneered in beauty culture- and how would you deal with experiments gone wrong? One bad move on the blond hair dye recipe, and you've got to explain to everyone that you did not intend that emerald hue for your locks.
jk.
p.s. When asked by kids what color my hair is, I turn to them with a deadpan look, and say quite clearly, "purple". Occasionally, it's even true.

the uniform is not required to serve in the auxiliary... no one is going to (or at least shouldn't) ask you to "take off the scarf or leave," though you could potentially be asked "take off the scarf or switch to the blue blazer uniform that is intended for anyone who can't or won't conform to the CG uniform for whatever reason..." Personally, having worked with a very nice egyptian woman in grad school who shared my office, I don't think the scarf is really incompatible with the uniform anyway (as long as it is black when worn with the uniform). These scarves are capable of being very subtle and unobtrusive, and fit just fine under headgear (the woman I worked with just had to cover her hair, it didn't have to like cover her forehead and eyebrows or anything. I think most of the time, when covered, no one would even realize you had it on. When uncovered, I don't think anyone would care.

quote:

Originally posted by 16358498:

The US is a work in progress, with definitions of nationality, patriotism, and who is allowed access to certain levels of society always in flux. These definitions have changed in response to new Americans bringing older traditions to bear on the culture, and Americans redefining themselves.

See, the problem with your argument is you're expecting the USA to change in order to accomodate YOU rather than you assimilating to fit in here.

That's the problem I have with the whole bilingual movement. You (or your family) knew what the USA is when you chose to move here.

If I chose to move to Japan, I certainly would do my best to fit in. I would learn the language and respect the customs and dress codes.

I would not move to Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, etc. because I do not approve of how they treat women, I do not approve of the required dress codes, and I do not believe in Islamic law.

quote:

And if they wanted to go to the summit of the Moral High Ground, they could even stock the various religious headgear in CG Blue in the warehouse.

Do we wear the Member insignia on it, or do we use the Officer insignia?


To accomodate members with sensitivity to the Sun, the Auxiliary adopted the Tilly Hat -- and its in Bender Blue! There's just no reason to disallow the muslim headgear, so long as it's not a safety problem, is consistent with the ujniform, and does not interfere with the Auxiliary's mission. (Remember, that's why we're all here.)



Forewatch writes:

quote:

See, the problem with your argument is you're expecting the USA to change in order to accomodate YOU rather than you assimilating to fit in here.

That's the problem I have with the whole bilingual movement. You (or your family) knew what the USA is when you chose to move here.

1. You also expect the CG to change to accomodate you (remember the "P" word?).

2. This has nothing to do with the "bilingual movement," though it should be noted that the U.S. has no official language.

3. When you say, "You (or your family) knew what the USA is when you chose to move here," you're assuming facts not in evidence. I don't know about 16358498, but there are many muslims who were born and raised in the United States. As "American" as lutefisk, I'd say!

Enough said on this, I think.

GJD finds himself in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike. He utters the word "xyzzy" and in a puff of white smoke, disappears from this forum . . . at least for a while or until "somebody" again says something very stupid!

quote:

Originally posted by geejaydee:


1. You also expect the CG to change to accomodate you (remember the "P" word?).

No.. actually I joined the Coast Guard Auxiliary BEFORE the PSI... so I didn't come in trying to change it. Had the PSI been in place in the beginning, I just wouldn't join.

quote:

2. This has nothing to do with the "bilingual movement," though it should be noted that the U.S. has no official language.

It sure does have everything to do with it. Immigrants are coming to the USA and demanding we change to accomodate them. We speak English in the country, whether it has been "officially" declared or not.

quote:

3. When you say, "You (or your family) knew what the USA is when you chose to move here," you're assuming facts not in evidence. I don't know about 16358498, but there are many muslims who were born and raised in the United States. [i]As "American" as lutefisk, I'd say!

Which is why I said, "OR their families." Whether she was born here or not, she or anyone else or THEIR FAMILIES who came to this country from elsewhere has no right to expect us to change to accomodate them. They need to assimilate to this country.

Interesting read through these posts...FW brings a thought to mind.

One thing that may be an issue here for the original poster in question.... is that US citizenship is required to join/participate in the Auxiliary. Not so to serve in the U.S. Military -- but definitely a requirement for the Auxiliary.

No mention that I could see had been made of citizenship....just throwing it out there as a possible roadblock to someone who might not be a citizen.

quote:

Originally posted by Forewatch:

quote:

Originally posted by geejaydee:



[QUOTE]3. When you say, "You (or your family) knew what the USA is when you chose to move here," you're assuming facts not in evidence. I don't know about 16358498, but there are many muslims who were born and raised in the United States. [i]As "American" as lutefisk, I'd say!

Which is why I said, "OR their families." Whether she was born here or not, she or anyone else or THEIR FAMILIES who came to this country from elsewhere has no right to expect us to change to accomodate them. They need to assimilate to this country.

<sarcasm mode> Kind of like the way the White man (and family and descendants) didn't expect the Indians to change or accomadate them. </sarcasm>

flyandscuba . . . I'm glad you used the word "may"

Well, it didn't take long for someone to post "something stupid" again. . .

FW wrote:

quote:

Which is why I said, "OR their families." Whether she was born here or not, she or anyone else or THEIR FAMILIES who came to this country from elsewhere has no right to expect us to change to accomodate them. They need to assimilate to this country.

I guess somebody should have convinced this guy of that concept. . .



OTOH, I always admired this Swedish immigrant who tried to change many of the injustices in American society. . .




...gjd

One thing that may be an issue here for the original poster in question.... is that US citizenship is required to join/participate in the Auxiliary.

There was a document I saw out of the last N-Train or NACON that stated the Aux and the CG were going and try to get that legal requirement (it is in the US Code) changed. I haven't seen any bill in the Congressional hopper to that effect so it probably is still a paper concept.

Re - the assimilation debate is so Old School. The concept of America as the Melting Pot died a long time ago. Even in its hey-day it largely only applied to whites and 'near' whites. The American Civil Rights Movement pretty much put a nail in that coffin. America as The Symphony (each distinct instrument playing its unique part) or America as The Salad Bowl (each unique ingredient contributing its own unique flavor) has largely replaced that dull grayish white blob of a stew that was cooking in the Melting Pot.

The good old US has no official language but certain parts of it, Puerto Rico, the Northern Marianas Islands and America Samoa have English and a native language as co-official languages (assuming that you count Spanish as a native language of PR).

Aside from the fact that the original language was one Indian language or another, other language factoids, that English America ran roughshod over:

1. The US forced Louisianna and other parts of the "Purchase" to forgo French as their language for the privilege of US citinzenship. So much for the US respecting the native (or adopted) language of the territory it bought without the residents permission or request.

2. The 'native' European language of Florida (including a large part of Alabama) was Spanish as was the entire southwest including California.

3. Russian was the native European language of Alaska and parts of northern Washington state.

4. Dutch was the original language of the colony of New Amsterdam, which became New York. Also Dutch was also spoken in parts of NJ since the Dutch owned that also.

quote:

Dutch was the original language of the colony of New Amsterdam, which became New York. Also Dutch was also spoken in parts of NJ since the Dutch owned that also.

German might also work. I always liked the lyrics of this song:

quote:

Die Gedanken sind frei, wer kann sie erraten,
sie fliegen vorbei wie nächtliche Schatten.
Kein Mensch kann sie wissen, kein Jäger erschießen
mit Pulver und Blei: Die Gedanken sind frei!

But German, the largest minority language in the U. S. until recently, lost much of its prestige after two world wars.

I found this interesting and "on point" (depending on what the point of all this is):

quote:

. . . proposals to ban English first surfaced in the heady days after the American Revolution. Anti-British sentiment was so strong in the new United States that a few super-patriots wanted to get rid of English altogether. They suggested replacing English with Hebrew, thought by many in the eighteenth century to be the world’s first language, the one spoken in the garden of Eden. French was also considered, because it was thought at the time, and especially by the French, to be the language of pure reason. And of course there was Greek, the language of Athens, the world’s first democracy. It’s not clear how serious any of these proposals were, though Roger Sherman of Connecticut supposedly remarked that it would be better to keep English for ourselves and make the British speak Greek.

//Source//

...gjd

Geejaydee

The German song you spoke was song by the inmates of the KZ Concentration Camps. A lot of them said that the song gave them hope.

Awww... c'mon GeeJay... lay off us Swedes. Afterall, without us, you wouldn't have:



and



and



and



and



So admit it, GeeJay.... Just say it.. you know you want to say it: