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Basic Training |
Thanks for the links RiverAux. Nice job with google.
But Ken, just to be clear, I'm not for shooting down the idea of BPaux. I just find your org's name misleading. |
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Basic Training |
Actually YES, that is my posting and I am sure that if you search the entire Internet you will find hundreds more!
Point is I have never stated that I belong to the "Minuteman Project" That is the issue here, so lets be very clear. It is like saying you belong to the Navy when you actually belong to the Army. So, again his posting is a lie! I never claimed that I have not been part of a Minuteman group, on the contrary I am currently still a member of the Minutemen Civil Defense group in CA. And I am actually the camp director for Camp Vigilance in CA. Anything else anybody wants information on? Glad to answer.... Ken |
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Basic Training |
RiverAux, again thanke for the great links. The last one of yours was an Open letter to Boise State University President, defending a student newspaper criticism of the MinuteMen.
And it was signed by.......
Same HSPIG that has a division called Border Patrol Auxiliary? |
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Basic Training |
And I do understand that, and your point. When asked about it we clearly make the person understand to the letter who we are and who we are not! I am sure there is some confusion with any Auxiliary division, even this one! people probably think you guys are part of the CG! Yes, same HSPIG. Ken This message has been edited. Last edited by: kdreger, |
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Basic Training |
Yes that one is also mine, I take credit for it completly... It never states that I am part of Mr. Gilcrest's group again..... It does not support any political person, nor does it get into any part of taking $$ for political purposes. "Ken Dreger posted 12/06/07 @ 12:30 PM MST Dr. Kustra- It has been brought to our attention by an article on the Boise states independent student newspaper web site written by Dr. Marcy Newman: http://media.www.arbiteronline.com/media/storage/paper8...vility-3135057.shtml that she is under the belief that Mr. Chris Simcox of the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps is a "Vigilante organization, and is founded upon "violent principals that target Latinos crossing the U.S.-Mexico border" ! I am at a loss of words here, these following statements just make me want to drive to Idaho and tell her in person that I am NOT a vigilante nor are any MCDC members and that racism is not tolerated in our organization at ALL! To me it is very clear that Dr. Newman has not done her homework and research. Here is a small excerpt from the article for you to review, please read it and respond back to me, this is very upsetting, and I would expect Dr. Newman to have higher standards in education of our children than to publish this type of slanderous trash speech! Although the Boise State administration took the time to craft such an admirable document one might wonder how it is that Chris Simcox, Founder and President of Minuteman Civil Defense Corps, was invited to speak on campus. His vigilante organization is founded upon violent principles that target Latinos crossing the U.S.-Mexico border. According to human rights organizations such as the Southern Poverty Law Center, since October 1994 there have been 10,000 people who have died crossing in order to work low-wage jobs in the U.S. or to reunite with family members. That figure reached record levels in April 2005 when Simcox founded his militia. Mexican deaths on the border are due to vigilante shootings as well as deaths related to people being forced to cross under more extreme conditions in order to avoid militias like the Minuteman. A lack of water, food, and extreme weather have contributed to these deaths as well as fear of vigilante groups detaining, harassing, and shooting them. The Orwellian name of Simcox's vigilante group likens them to the Minutemen, the Massachusetts militia fighting for independence (albeit independence dependent upon the genocide of the indigenous population in the Americas), perhaps hoping that the association will make them seem patriotic. Likewise their "civil defense" title obscures the fact that they are offensively attacking innocent people crossing the border. In fact, the Minuteman organization, like all such post-9/11 organizations, inverts and distorts reality to serve their own political agenda. Indeed, the Minuteman militia would best be likened to the Ku Klux Klan, an organization that was founded upon the intimidation, harassment, and lynching of African Americans. By bringing Simcox and his ilk to campus we tread upon the safety of non-dominant students on campus. Simcox's hateful rhetoric is not only intimidating, it also has a violent past and present to back it up. Would BSU deem it in line with its commitment to civility by inviting the Ku Klux Klan to campus? Or does the "Statement of Shared Values" only apply to the majority white student body? It is perfectly appropriate to discuss issues related to the U.S.-Mexico border on campus, but it should be done in an academic context with non-white scholars or artists who are capable of engaging with the facts and who use research rather than weapons to make their points. There is no room for hate-speech on a university campus, especially one that claims to value civil discourse and respect. In addition, Mr. Simcox's organization is in no way a Militia, nor associated with ANY racist groups like the KKK, or SPLC, or METCHA. There are VERY strict rules and factors that must be adhered to when joining the MCDC, and the SOP is very clear about what will and will not be tolerated at all times. I am including the MCDC pledge that we all adhere to, please tell me if this sounds like a bunch of racist-KKK-Vigilantes: The Minuteman Pledge I. A Minuteman upholds the Constitution of the United States of America, and reveres the American Creed that unites us as one people, our Declaration of Independence. II. A Minuteman knows well America is a nation of immigrants, and realization of our national promise has always relied upon those who come to America from other countries to participate fully, with their children and descendants, as loyal and law-abiding U.S. citizens. III. A Minuteman believes that just as ethnicity, race, religion and all such factors are incidental and do not affect our God-given, constitutional equality as American citizens, such factors are also irrelevant in the debate over illegal immigration. There is no tolerance among Minutemen for racism or bigotry - E Pluribus Unum - Out of Many, One. IV. A Minuteman believes in a strong, safe and secure America that begins with borders open only to those who have a legal right to enter, and who have met all the lawful criteria to cross into our territory established by the sovereign American people. V. Minutemen vow to use every legal means at our disposal to assist law enforcement authorities in identifying and apprehending those who violate our borders, whether they are illegally trafficking people, weapons, arms, property, sexual slaves or any other contraband. VI. Minutemen vow to report to the proper authorities any business entity which knowingly recruits, facilitates or employs people who have entered America illegally, or which cooperates in any commercial activity which involves contraband smuggling or marketing of persons, products or material. VII. Minutemen promise to raise our voices -- on cellular phones along the borders of America and in the halls of Congress -- in the defense of the rule of law. The American people are firm but fair, and we share their great compassion for the many powerless victims of cruel, illegal human trafficking and labor exploitation. But we also support our citizens' adamant rejection of the blatant disregard for our laws and ordered liberty represented by the U.S. government's failure to secure our borders, enforce our nation's sovereignty and end the flood of illegal trafficking into American territory. I vow before God and my fellow Americans that these principles guide my actions as a Minuteman. "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty..." And so I will stand watch on America's borders and in her sovereign interest until relieved from duty by my fellow countrymen. In addition, I am including our SOP for you to again decide who we are: Standard Operating Procedure for Minuteman Civil Defense Corps. 1. Minutemen are courteous to everyone with whom they come into contact, and never discriminate against anyone for any reason. 2. Minutemen do not respond to any taunts or harassment from outside agitators, and must never be present for duty or serve in any capacity if intoxicated. 3. *Minutemen Observe, Report,Record, and Direct Border Patrol or other appropriate emergency or law enforcement agencies to suspected Illegal Aliens or Illegal Activities. 4. Minutemen do not verbally contact, physically gesture to or have any form of communications with suspected Illegal Aliens. 5. Minutemen follow the Standard Operating Procedures to the letter and spirit. 6. Minutemen follow all federal, state and local laws, understanding that we are being held to a higher standard by all. 7. Minutemen understand that, while our actions cannot stop illegal activities along the border, we can change world perception and national thought concerning Homeland and Border Security. 8. Minutemen monitor their behavior, the behavior of the people around them and the group as a whole to ensure compliance with the SOP and any instruction given by Minuteman Corps Leadership. 9. Minutemen leave no garbage behind and follow strict pack-in / pack-out procedures. 10. Minutemen respect the property rights of everyone, start no fires, never drive off road, and follow the directions of all law enforcement personnel. For the past 2 years, I have been a member of this group, spending thousands of hours at our countries southern border trying to do the work that our federal government refuses to do, and have paid a very high price for doing it! I have been called every name in the book, but I will continue to help secure America, even for people like Dr. Newman because freedom is priceless, and is worth the pain and suffering that we undertake to accomplish our tasks at the borders. So, I ask you, the president of the university, why would a professor of education make such outlandish statements in public if not only to push an agenda of her own! I have a daughter and her family who lives near Boise, and I surely hope that when my grandchildren become of age to attend college that professors like this are not teaching my grandchildren these hateful things! Respectfully, Ken Dreger V.P. Homeland Security Policy Institute Group, Inc. " And again, you will find hundreds if not thousands of these online.... I am a firm believer of enforceing our laws on Immigration. Ken |
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Basic Training |
RA- Like most Americans everyone lumps all Minutemen into just ONE group! That is incorrect, there are hundreds of these groups around this country. I currently and for over 2+ years have been a "Volunteer" with MCDC, and yes I am the Camp Director here in California. This is very well known information and I have never tried to hide this at all. I am very proud to make my services available to accomplish these efforts. Again, I have never been a member or have partaken in any event with Mr. Gilcrest and his Minuteman Project! EVER! If I can help clear up any of this please PM me and I will be happy to give you my personel phone number. Ken This message has been edited. Last edited by: kdreger, |
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Basic Training |
From my personal experience in uniform, I am constantly assumed to be in the Armed Forces (usually USCG sometimes USAF.) And, when convenient, I am always clear about who I represent. The big difference: my organization is actually connected to the Coast Guard. Your org is not connected to the Border Patrol. Now, if that works for the Border Patrol, then who am I to say otherwise. But personally, I believe the average citizen would think you are law enforcement, if they were confronted by armed, uniformed men, in a vessel with law-enforcement lights, labeled "Border Patrol Auxiliary." Again, I support the idea of citizens assisting border security. Just hope you avoid legal problems while doing it. |
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Basic Training |
I will take your word that there is a distinction. But full disclosure in advance would have avoided an appearance of deception. |
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Basic Training |
Understood, and actually it works very well for BP, they were and are happy to see us in our 511's And for full disclosure, my profile is not hidden from anyone, and I use my real name on all postings, unlike 99% of those here. Ken This message has been edited. Last edited by: kdreger, |
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Basic Training |
OK, like I said, ask and I will try to get an answer. There is a big difference, MMP to my knowledge they have not been back to the actual border for years, MCDC and our group here in CA are there regulary. And we are at the border this weekend also! Our group in CA works pretty much independently of the AZ Org. We have around 2400 members here in CA and pretty much control everything we do within the guidelines of HQ. ANything else? Ken This message has been edited. Last edited by: kdreger, |
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Experienced Member |
Well, I'll take Mr. Dreger's word on there being a real distinction between these various groups. Splinter groups tend to arise contstantly in this community and keeping track of the details is beyond me.
In any case, I've said my piece about this organization and given fair warning to any potential members, so I'll bow out of this thread for now. If something new bearing on the CG Aux arises, maybe I'll step back in. |
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Member |
Probably because there is absolutely nothing wrong, illegal or even improper about wearing a sword. If the player haters had focused on the sneakers, and left the sword out of it, you might have had more impact. By focusing on the (totally not an issue) sword, you might have been doing him a favor, and deflected focus from his shoes.... |
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Basic Training |
RA- Thanks for all of your input. Ken |
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Member |
It was explained to me (by a police reservist and instructor at the police academy, a licensed attorney) that you are free to wear a complete, 100% accurate police uniform, including badge and patches that say police, without impersonating (in order to protect people wearing police "costumes" at halloween..) but the minute that same person directs traffic, accepts a police discount on a meal, or makes a comment on someone else's behavior, he has commited false personation. stopping an alien, or sending him back (while dressed as an auxiliary of a real LEO agency) might get u arrested or congratulated depending on the personlity, beliefs, or mood of the investigating officer. |
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Member |
More power to you and all that, but there is one difference. People don't think we're a part of the Coast Guard. We !! ARE !! part of the Coast Guard. Although people do sometimes think I'm in the Air Force when I wear the light blue shirt... -- William Baldwin, Jr MBA HCM program Univ of Phoenix Ground below Zero, City of New Orleans, La on the web: www.coastguardauxiliaryslidell8cr.us |
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Basic Training |
Correct, that is why we NEVER Confront or stop anyone, only report it to BP. |
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We have met the enemy and he is us. Pogo |
if they were confronted by armed, uniformed men, in a vessel with law-enforcement lights, labeled "Border Patrol Auxiliary."
Although the individual BP Aux member may or may not be armed, neither the perps nor the Good Guys should know it. As civilians, the BP Aux can only carry concealed firearms. I don't know of any state that the BP Aux operates in or plans to operate in that allows the open carry of firearms. So the description above is either inaccurate based on a misunderstanding of the law of concealed carry or is simply FUD. Probably because there is absolutely nothing wrong, illegal or even improper about wearing a sword. There is in the Aux. Swords are only worn with full dress unis and the Aux is clearly barred in the AuxMan from wearing full dress unis. And since it is barred in the AuxMan then it is wrong, illegal (in the sense of violating a Commandant Regulation) and improper. |
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Basic Training |
OK,
Here we are at 9 pages of bantering back and forth on the same subject. I truly believe this is one of those "agree to disagree" things. It's time to move on. Ken, I am sorry to say, I don't think you will get any new members from this board. I understand that you want to defend your purpose and your passion. At some point, you will have to abandon the cause and move on. Others, IF his intentions are noble, then great. If not, or if for what ever reason they have a mishap, it is their rope that they hung themselves with. As with any action, there is a consequence. A good action comes a good consequence, a bad one, well, you get the point. I think this horse has been beaten to a pulp, sent through the meat grinder, put into sausage tubes and then tenderized. Let it go. |
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Basic Training |
I incorrectly assumed they would open carry. Thanks for the correction. This message has been edited. Last edited by: CaptainBosco, |
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