Let's go, the title contains the rules. Violations of the general rules of conduct TOU will mean instant delete. Otherwise...

I will cast no stones!

Dave Barker

Additional Notes by Cherryread

Please keep in mind that the Rant thread is a more hostile posting environment. A person who is easily upset or in a more fragile state of mind mode at the time for any reason probably should avoid the more negative replies found in the Rant thread. You should not read every new post just because it is there. Consider the effect that anger has on you before you just read a post especially in the Rant thread section.

A posting to the Rant thread is more of a judgment call by the poster or the Moderator than anything else. When does a post belong in a Rant thread? The real purpose of the Rant thread is to allow some more leeway for a poster to vent a more negative point of view on a topic of concern to the poster. Since a PTSD trigger can be almost anything, then there may be a variety of post contents. Variety does not mean that PTSD forum rules are not enforced.

The overall purpose of the Rant thread for a lot of post replies is to separate controversial content or argumentative content from support content. One opinion may not be common to all parties. Posting a more argumentative opinion to the Rant thread allows some room for a debate of a topic. It also keeps the more angry venting responses away from the other threads.

It serves our general forum purpose better if the General PTSD Discussion thread is used for support comments. It is possible to make a support comment in any thread. Your Moderator can move a post on request if you post to the wrong area. The Moderator may also move a post or copy a post to additional threads because of the post contents.

A poster needs to keep in mind that all threads are subject to the User Agreement in the link provided at the bottom of each forum page and the PTSD forum rules. The PTSD forum is one forum of many. Toons and Trolls on other forums may stalk our forum but they still have to obey the rules. The general rules on all forums are applied but there are more specific rules observed on the PTSD forum. There is dual purpose in the Rant thread. Venting is allowed but must also be controlled so there is debate or discussion but no abuse of another poster.

I added the user link for you. Terms of Use (TOU)
http://www.military.com/Content/MoreContent1/0,,terms_of_use,00.html

Comments added by Cherryread PTSD Moderator
Cherry

[This message was edited by cherryread on Sat, 08 May 2004 at 2:18.]

I've been down for awhile. Once again I have moved due to VA docs forcing me to take some time off. I realize life goes on, and things change, but there were posts made in the very beginning of these threads that inspired me from time to time, and it is clear they are gone. I don't know what happened and I realize it is my responsibility to get caught up if I what to return and hang out here, but please understand that I was here on day one, and there were alot of people laying it on the line. I hate to have to re-tell my stuff just to get thrown back in the hospital and have to start over again. I see an almost completely different crowd here which I have no problem with, but like history itself, it appears these threads have lost alot of the sacrifice and heart that was shared in starting them. God Bless you all. I'm done ranting, just wish the old threads could have been preserved. keep your knees to the breeze..........rgr out.

Welcome back Jeff,

All of us who were here before miss the original forum posts. Jeff, we lost the original Discussion thread due to thread update and a poster request to remove posts. The forums administration was acting in good faith by honoring a responsibility to the general public who post on all of the InfoPop forums. Unfortunately, the attempted delete function to remove the first post of a thread took down the whole thread. The deletion act exposed a flaw in the system. All forum Mods in an update have been advised of the technical difficulty of using the delete function on the first post of a topic. You shall note that the first topic threads now created are made by the Primary Moderator.

We lost other threads due to thread pruning because of a lack of poster activity. Stoney, the head moderator of the forums, has been making the effort to limit thread deletion activity on the PTSD forum. Alpha Dog has been backing up the critical forum threads and posts to CD's on his own resources at the expense of his private time. Alpha has a full time job now besides what he does for us. We are still committed to maintaining a safe zone and rebuilding our PTSD post support functions.

Cherry

Wow. Powerful writing and I'm behind you all the way on everything you wrote.

Never ever ever ever apologise for draining the acid anywhere on this forum. We love you and are 1,000% behind you and here is a HUGE MOM HUG.

You is the forum, hon. GUTSY AND HEALTHY POST !!!!!

It almost makes me feel guilty. The exact opposite is true at my local VA hospital and my first appt. for a PTSD group where I'll be the only female is on March 22nd.

That VA near you stinks.

MOM

I believe love given is the secret of life...MOM

WE ALL GET DOWN AND OUT AT TIMES FOR SURE AND IT SEEMS LIKE I AM DOWN A LOT MORE THAN I AM UP THESE DAY'S. anyway it's good to see you here. I've been gone for a spell myself and said I wasn't coming back then when I did I said I wasn't going to post,but I lied,once I started,it kinda motovated me again. So hang around and help the new one's to feel the relief that we felt when the forum first started,and I know you could be a great help to other Gulf Vets that will around here plus youself and the rest of us . Take Care Bro.

May the road up rise to meet you, may the wind be always at your back. May
the sun shine warm upon your face and the rain fall soft upon your fields
and until we meet again may God hold you in the palm of his hand.

Please read my entire rant before yelling at me! If a person has PTSD and rides home sick from radiation....
Just where do veterans fit in the civilian scheme of budget things?
Yesterday 3/26 I drove from my office in Chillicothe in central Ohio to Pomeroy to do outreach with a new AMVETS post. It was an 80.8 mile trip. Pomeroy was one of the sites the VA did veterans outreach visits for healthcare, until it was stopped last year. It was stopped due to budget constraints.
Veterans Affairs Community Based Outpatient Clinic (VA CBOC's or CBOC) were established, to change from the centralized idea of admitting so many veterans to a hospital for treatment. Thus to do treatment on an outpatient basis. This seemingly is much better for the patient, the family and the VA budget. It had worked quite will until last year when the veterans healthcare outreach was stopped due to budget restrictions.
The VA policy on establishing VA CBOC's was a veteran should not have to travel over 35 miles to obtain healthcare. It was changed to 40 miles. Now the strange thing is in northern Ohio there are VA Clinics fairly well covering all geographic areas and only one facility is scheduled to close and that one is within 40 miles of VA clinics on each side.
http://www1.va.gov/visn10/ (the map shows the VISN 10 only so the NW corner of Ohio is in another VISN) this gives an idea of the problem.
Now in southern Ohio it is a different story. In the western portion Cincinnati area there are plenty of VA facilities. Many within 30 miles of one another. But in southeast Ohio the program has been curtailed. There are VA CBOC's in Athens, Portsmouth and Marietta which cover as much area as 20 facilities in other areas of Ohio. Those veterans who depended on outreach visits must now travel 80 or more miles to visit a doctor get their treatments and then drive back 80 or so miles. For those needing radiation they are further transferred to Cincinnati in a van. In Cincinnati the are given the radiation (causing great nausea) then delivered back to their vehicle and drive home 80 miles or more.
This is uncalled for in my opinion and it is time for veterans to start defending their brothers and sisters.
A link to write Congressional Representatives

http://www.house.gov/writerep/



A link to contact U.S. Senators:

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

I will cast no stones!

Dave Barker

i am a retired army medic myself and have been dealing with my ptsd since 1974 when i was in germany at the 733rd med det as senior medic on the night shift. nightmares, difficulty sleeping, guilt for surviving,(i came into the army just after the tet offensive of 68 most of my basic training co i think is on the wall, it seems) i sometimes wake myself up at night doing cpr on invisible patients. see the children that were doa, all the time i have flashbacks when i see, or hear an ambulance/emergency response vehicle go by. there are times when all i get is 1-2 hours sleep in a night and that is in between bouts of flashbacks. if i see any of the ems type shows on tv it will trigger nightmares, ie third watch and that type of thing. i used to get a kick out of mash but can not watch any of those either.
i just had a c&p with the va to eval for 100% permanent and total disability, i am presently drawing 100% based on unemployability. the only support group i have been comfortable with is with vietnam ptsd vets, we have one female in the group that was raped and has issues that i could never cope with. the group is great but do not understand the trauma that trauma brings out in me. theirs is a different thing. but at the same time the have been able to empathize with my ptsd because they also dont sleep, have nightmares, get flashbacks, just about battles, enemies, real or imagined.
i hope that you gain some hope through your pain and that you can find the support that you most assuredly need. good luck in your eval from the va. i retired in 88 and didnt get any recognition for the ptsd until 99. i hope it doesnt take you anywhere near that long.
good luck in all your endeavors

doc stadig medic and proud of it

SEVENTH IRAQ WAR VETERAN KILLS HIMSELF
By Mark Benjamin
United Press International
Tuesday 16 March 2004



WASHINGTON, March 16 (UPI) -- A Colorado-based Army Special Forces soldier back from Iraq shot himself in the head in his front yard Sunday night, according to police -- at least the seventh soldier who has committed suicide after serving there.

William Howell, 36, shot himself after following his wife around the yard with a handgun, according to the El Paso County Sheriff's Office. Howell served with the 10th Special Forces group in Iraq and returned to Fort Carson last month, according to the Army.

Another soldier who was attached to that unit in Iraq, Staff Sgt. Georg-Andreas Pogany, has claimed that the 10th Special Forces Group ignored him when he sought help with mental problems there, and then charged him with cowardice instead. Pogany, 32, also says the Army is ignoring the side effects of an anti-malaria drug called Lariam he took with the Special Forces, which has been linked to mental problems, aggression and suicides.

The Army's Special Operations Command did not respond to a question Tuesday about whether Howell had taken the drug or had sought help for mental health concerns.

The El Paso County Sheriff's Department got a phone call just before 9:30 Sunday night from Howell's wife about a "physical disturbance" at their home in Monument. She said her husband had gone to get a gun. Police said the line then went dead. When they called back, Howell said there was no problem.

When police arrived, Howell was following his wife around the yard with a handgun and talking to her. "He was ordered to drop his weapon by one of the officers, but instead placed the weapon to his head and pulled the trigger," the sheriff's office said in a statement. One officer fired at Howell, not realizing whom Howell was shooting at, and hit Howell in the arm. The El Paso County Coroner said Howell died from his own shot.

Howell's wife was treated for a minor head injury. A 13-year-old and two infants were in the house, unharmed.

Police said they have no records of previous domestic disputes involving Howell or his address.

Pogany, the soldier who was charged with cowardice, has said he suffered a debilitating panic attack in Iraq last fall after seeing the body of a mangled Iraqi while with 10th Special Forces. He says he sought help, but was rebuffed, and eventually charged with cowardice, which is punishable by death. The Army has since withdrawn those charges but he continues to fight the Army on others.

In Iraq, the Special Forces had just given Pogany his third Lariam pill when he suffered the attack. The Food and Drug Administration warns that Lariam can cause panic attacks, thoughts of suicide, depression, anxiety, paranoia, delusions and psychosis that can occur long after taking the drug.

A leading veterans' advocate two months ago warned Congress that soldiers who experience mental problems during or after deployments> need help and not punishment.

"Nowhere is this apparent disregard for psychological injuries more apparent than in the case of Sgt. Georg-Andreas Pogany, who was charged with cowardice," Steve Robinson, Executive Director of the National Gulf War Resource Center, told a House Armed Services Committee panel on Jan. 21.

Robinson, a former Army Ranger, told UPI that some soldiers have heard about the Pogany case and are afraid of seeking help because of what happened to him. "This Pogany case has had a chilling effect on soldiers coming forward. I have talked to soldiers who have said it," he said.

Robinson also asked Congress to look into Lariam. "This drug needs to be investigated to determine if it is harming and in some cases killing our own soldiers," Robinson told that panel.

It is not clear whether Howell ever asked for help when he returned from Iraq, but Pogany's attorney, Rich Travis, said the Special Forces have created an "atmosphere" that makes soldiers afraid to seek help. "I think it is the Special Forces that does create an atmosphere where you can not approach your commander and ask for help," Travis said. "I don't think it is a leap of logic to think (Howell) knew how Georg was treated by the chain of command. I think it was pretty well known."

Travis also said the Army, which invented Lariam, is now ignoring its side effects.

Three special operations soldiers who served in Afghanistan and had apparently taken Lariam allegedly killed their wives at Fort Bragg in the summer of 2002. Those three soldiers also committed suicide.

In the investigation into the Fort Bragg killings, the Army said that Lariam could not have triggered a cluster of five apparent murders and three suicides from that summer because some suspects did not take Lariam.

Suicides in connection with Operation Iraqi Freedom have become an issue after an unusual spike occurred last summer in Iraq. The Pentagon says 21 Army suicides have been confirmed in Iraq and Kuwait -- reflecting a suicide rate within the normal range. A report on mental health problems in Iraq was ordered last August by the Army surgeon general but has not been released.

According to the Army, six soldiers have killed themselves after returning from Iraq, not counting Howell. UPI reported that one soldier back from Iraq died last July, and another this January, at Walter Reed Army Medical Center. A Fort Campbell soldier who had been in Iraq killed himself in January.

sorry to take the bandwidth, but I feel this one. It seems there is only questions. God Bless you all.

All of the politicians should go now. My idea is to divide congress in two sections. Leaving political parties out of it. Send section one led by GWB to Iraq first. After one year have section two led by VP Cheney relieve them. At the time section one went to Iraq, section two was going to Afghanistan. So to keep it even and fair, the GWB section after leaving Iraq would go to Afghanistan. We could use JF Kerry in Kosovo during the same periods with the Pentegon personnel which finally would have a function.
After that we would not have a problem protecting VA benefits.

I will cast no stones!

Dave Barker

....and while we are at it, let's make sure their t-shirts and socks disintegrate on their bodies and oh......two bottles of water only each day and......no mail for months and......dangle those "you get to go home next month" scenarios in their faces.

AAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH.......

MOM

I believe love given is the secret of life...MOM

I have to make a 100 mile,one way trip to get to a VAMC.I try my best not to go to this VAMC,Only when I have to.Each time I do go to the center I feel as thow I`ve walked onto a "Used Car LOT".The last time I was at the "Hampton Roads VAMC" one of those people thatsit around all day saying "Last Four" told me to "Pull my Botton Lip over my Forehead"this being after almost 4.5 hrs in the emergency room."It is not for us to wonder why,it is for us to do or die" or just shut up.

quote:

---

Originally posted by DaveBarker:
Please read my entire rant before yelling at me! If a person has PTSD and rides home sick from radiation....
Just where do veterans fit in the civilian scheme of budget things?
Yesterday 3/26 I drove from my office in Chillicothe in central Ohio to Pomeroy to do outreach with a new AMVETS post. It was an 80.8 mile trip. Pomeroy was one of the sites the VA did veterans outreach visits for healthcare, until it was stopped last year. It was stopped due to budget constraints.
Veterans Affairs Community Based Outpatient Clinic (VA CBOC's or CBOC) were established, to change from the centralized idea of admitting so many veterans to a hospital for treatment. Thus to do treatment on an outpatient basis. This seemingly is much better for the patient, the family and the VA budget. It had worked quite will until last year when the veterans healthcare outreach was stopped due to budget restrictions.
The VA policy on establishing VA CBOC's was a veteran should not have to travel over 35 miles to obtain healthcare. It was changed to 40 miles. Now the strange thing is in northern Ohio there are VA Clinics fairly well covering all geographic areas and only one facility is scheduled to close and that one is within 40 miles of VA clinics on each side.
http://www1.va.gov/visn10/ (the map shows the VISN 10 only so the NW corner of Ohio is in another VISN) this gives an idea of the problem.
Now in southern Ohio it is a different story. In the western portion Cincinnati area there are plenty of VA facilities. Many within 30 miles of one another. But in southeast Ohio the program has been curtailed. There are VA CBOC's in Athens, Portsmouth and Marietta which cover as much area as 20 facilities in other areas of Ohio. Those veterans who depended on outreach visits must now travel 80 or more miles to visit a doctor get their treatments and then drive back 80 or so miles. For those needing radiation they are further transferred to Cincinnati in a van. In Cincinnati the are given the radiation (causing great nausea) then delivered back to their vehicle and drive home 80 miles or more.
This is uncalled for in my opinion and it is time for veterans to start defending their brothers and sisters.
A link to write Congressional Representatives

http://www.house.gov/writerep/



A link to contact U.S. Senators:

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

_I will cast no stones!

Dave Barker_

---

There is no reason for you to be treated in the manner you described. I strongly request you to contact a veterans service officer and ask their support in dealing with the issue.
It is time to contact your Congressional Represntative as well.
http://www.geocities.com/dave_barker_amvet/index.html

I will cast no stones!

Dave Barker

PTSD is almost all negative. I am not offended by venting or upset by the negative post. That is why the Rant and Rave thread was created. My obligation as a Moderator is to make sure things do not get out of hand.

Our intentions as a PTSD Support group is to make sure that posters have an open door policy on posting and venting what hurts. The simple rules are there to make sure that all persons have equal opportunity and equal access. We would not be much of a PTSD Support group if we did not allow venting. The only thing we need to do is avoid burning down the house. This place has become a kind of home that many use to find a safe place to be. Many people use this place to discuss their day to day struggles. As victims of PTSD, we do not need to make victims of each other.

I want to thank you for your support and for your respect for what we try to do. A lot of PTSD forums have come and gone and most do not function on the level that we do.

Cherry

I got your back Cherry.

Stoney

United States Air Force

Okay, I have a question, just what exactly is the problem? If this was a forum solely for Vets I could understand that Robin questions who is actually a Vet and who isn't. But it's not, at least that's what I have been told. I am a civilian and I came here for help and support. I was welcomed as have other civilians. So what difference does it truly make as far as getting help and support for PTSD, whether someone is truly a Vet or not? And if nonVets are welcome here, why would anyone lie about it? How can someone coming here for help and support hurt you personally, Robin? Honestly, I would like to know because I get the feeling that you may be feeding the black dog so to speak. Feeding into the anger and animosity symptoms of PTSD will get you and everyone else here absolutely nowhere. How about you find a way to feed the white dog instead? If it's a matter of thumping your chest and playing show me yours to see who is a real man, this is not the place for that. We have all been through our own hells that is why we are all here. I have no idea what you have been through and you have no idea what I have been through. That doesn't make you any better than me or me any better than you and this forum is not about that. It's about trying to heal, it's about supporting each other. I don't know what exactly you are looking for here but that's what we are about here and I don't see it changing. You are the one that has to make the decision if this is the place for you. We welcome you but we cannot change to suit you feeding the black dog. Does that make sense?
Here's a link to the story about the black dog and the white dog. In this story the black dog is self pity but it can also be any aspect of PTSD that holds us back. The longer you feed it, the harder it is to get better. Don't mean to offend you by saying you are feeding the black dog, but that's the sense I get from you. I don't think the problem is really who is who they say they are, because that's not what we are about here. When you're ready to talk about what's really bothering you, we are here to listen and to support you in whatever way we can. God Bless you Robin, and I will be praying for you. Oh and thank you from the bottom of my little heart for your service and sacrifices to our country. My daddy was a Vietnam Vet and even though it was before my time, I spent a great deal of time talking to him about what he went through there and when he came home. Respectfully, Amelia
Mods, I hope this post was appropriate if not edit or delete as you see fit. Thanks

<font color="red">"There is no failure except in no longer trying." ~~Elbert Hubbard</font>

First off, I reckon some folks knew I would step in here but I aint protectin no one cause they can do that good enough on their own.

Second, I figured this thread was to rant about our normal daily crap etc... and not question other members that have been here for a pretty good while now. That is done via email. My call is that if a new person reads the forum and dont like it, so be it. We aint twisting their arm to read it. However, it was always my goal as a Mod to keep disruption out of the forum. There were times I would copy a post to my harddrive and delete it from the forum as I emailed the poster to discuss the rules of the forum. Folks got enough garbage to put up with without unnecessary disruptions. We are here to support each other, not tear each other down.


1. DOD files as mentioned by Cherry and Mom:

My 82 year old father dont even show up in the files and I know he did his time.

2. Profiles on mil.com,as most of ya should know, are just what the heck they say or depict. Some folks do not use their real name for whatever reason they choose. So be it and so what.

If I want folks to know about me, I would put it in my dang profile. Otherwise, it aint none of anyone's business except me and for folks that I know and that I consider friends, Brothers or Sisters.

Robin, You have dun your time with Honor. Thank you.

You gave your opinion and it is just that, your opinion. I know from personal experience that this forum has been of great value to a lot of folks.

I did not take affront to your "suspicions" because your post did not mean anything to me and the fact that I do not have to prove anything to anyone. Just the way I am.

I do hope you will become a positive influence if you stay on the forum. Glad you read the rules.

Alpha Dog

quote:

---

Originally posted by patriotgurrl:
Okay, I have a question, just what exactly is the problem? If this was a forum solely for Vets I could understand that Robin questions who is actually a Vet and who isn't. But it's not, at least that's what I have been told. I am a civilian and I came here for help and support. I was welcomed as have other civilians. So what difference does it truly make as far as getting help and support for PTSD, whether someone is truly a Vet or not?

---

Sweetie, the issue of Vet vs nonVet is an issue outside this forum, in day to day real life.

I know for a fact and from experience that as soon as ANYONE finds out I trained with F-16's on a Combat Flight Line, one of two things happens: a distance is created between myself and the non-Vet, or worse, I am expected to live up to a "tough guy" image which is a little difficult for me to do being a "girl".

As far as PTSD and service, there is still a social stigma, and let's be honest, we know how the disease works, and when some people hit rock bottom they do weird things. as a result, Vets have a trust issue.

Military.com is one of the largest resources on the internet for active duty and veteran service personnel. When you navigate the veteran resources, especially for health, there is a link directly to this forum. Those of us who are "new" to the forum, found our way here thru the VA links found on the internet in various places.

Additionally, have you noticed how many gulf War Vets are posting in the PTSD forum? Have you seen any posts from Gulf War Vets at all in the Health Forum? I sure haven't. I've found one other individual on Military.com who served the same time I did (87-91) and had the same experience, but is not sick and is in the Guard. For some Gulf Vets, finding assistance for illness or emotional PTSD symptoms is similar to what the Viet Name Vets went thru when they first came back - no one wants to admit that Iraq is a combat zone and that war is a dirty ugly business. Worse, civilians have absolutely no reference point to the experience. (No, if you are a military wife/SO, child or parent, you really aren't a civilian, you experience the military thru your loved one)

I have to go back to the VA on May 10th and I'm terrified. I am emotionally shutting down and at the time of Robin's post, the "prove it" post, I was experiencing some same issues.

I think that this particular thread is (Rant) is proof that the Mods and "old timers" on PTSD are dedicated to keeping this forum a safe environment..... how else could we explore these feelings in a safe zone?

Once again, the PTSD folks are outstanding and probably the best support I could have found.

Thanks

Thanks for the feedback and questions about the Rant thread purpose. Some very good points were made about how people react to postings. I have added an additional note to the first post to the Rant thread topic to reflect those views and comments from several posters.

Cherry

Well I am sure glad the schooling I attended this week in Daytona Beach Florida was only one week. The was much information to digest and convert to my brain. The training was the best, since my first day as a veterans service officer, in November 1977.
To Robin: I wish to welcome you to our forum. As an E-7 you have been taught how to deal with situations. So have I. In my office I see as few as 24 veterans in one day with over 40 on others. In my client files I have many veterans with Silver Stars and higher awards. I most likely deal with more X-POW's than any other individual veterans service officer. Without exception these two groups of people are the most humble, of all veterans entering my door.
In all likelyhood I have spoken with more wannabe's than anyone else on these boards. Within five minutes of every single veteran who speaks to me about a PTSD claim the SF 180 is completed, signed and mailed. When I do find a phoney and I do find them, they are simply given their records and a revoke letter. There is no need for them to attempt to gain ineligible benefits, from the VA, as those records are FEDERAL and the VA has a right to them and that is where the originals go. I do not treat them rude, there is no need to. Rudness is an evil, that is not a welcome part of my life. Wannabe's vanish when exposed.
After all is said and done, people are people. If we get a poser on these boards it does not take long to see the poser disappear!

Cherry and Bear have the same authority as I and they know it! If need be and hopefully, we will get Alpha Dog (my brother in spirit) back soon!

Dave Barker

RedDawg

Welcome back from your trip Bro ! I can imagine some of the folks that try to "work" the system to get "rated" so they can get other VA benies and I am glad you weed their butts out.

I made that comment about Cherry and RV because their names have not been added to the top of the thread as Mods as I thought they would be. Hopefully, Stoney will do that soonest.

Consider that last post of mine as my Rant for the year!! LOL

Folks here know that we will not sit by and let anyone here be effected by others in a negative manner.

I aint PC even though some folks think I am. hahahaha....

Also, I expect any Mod to edit, delete or even Ban me if I deserve it. No pro at all here.

Take care Brothers and Sisters.

Alpha Dog