I'm a very calm person normally. I'm 70% service connected for PTSD. I stay on my meds and deal with things as best I can, like we all do. My biggest day-to-day problem seems to come from dealing with civilians who don't ever seem to live by any type of code. The ones I deal with don't seem to have any concern for honor, morals or responsibility for their own actions.

The other night I was at a local joint that I like to have a few beers in. A really strange person broke a glass over my head. I don't even know why.

The thing that scared me a little was that I put the person on the ground in about half a second without even thinking about it. It was more of a reflex action than anything. And I'm not a fighter. I just like to have some beers and talk to whatever "normal" people are there.

It makes me a little nervous that I might some day hurt an aggressor badly without intending to. I hyperventilated for about 45 minutes after this thing happened. I just couldn't shake that fight-or-flight response.

As far as daily PTSD responses I definitely have a problem with sudden, loud noises. Or people who talk loudly near me. And now I'm nervous about people walking up behind me. I've also got my apartment wired up like Fort Knox as far as security is concerned, but I don't think that's a bad thing.

Sorry for the long post. I don't have any real friends that I can trust or that would understand at all. Just had to vent a little. Thanks.

Hi..Glad you dropped in.

I have some comments to share here, but am really tired at this time, so I'll bid you a good night and share later.

Thank you all for dropping by.

If you think of it, bookmark this forum and stop back often.

After much contemplation....Living with Civilians God help us

Now I will search my memory banks and come up with some helpful hints and experiences.... (First I must peruse the Humor thread a little bit more...)

Living with Civilians?

Tried it. It didn't work out. Tried it again..It didn't work out..Tried it once more... It didn't work out... After three strikes over the last 36 years....I'm out.

I didn't understand your post. Did I do something wrong or not explain something the right way? Just wondering. Please let me know. I try to be as plain as I can on this forum. No sarcasm, no bizarre language.

Hi IL

I think most people can relate to your post in one way or another. You conveyed yourself very well.

Have you been through any in resident PTSD programs? Some can give you some really good tools to help with the things you mentioned...life skills. It helps take the edge off, and minimize the fear. I helps put you back in the driver's seat, to act, as opposed to react...you know.

Hi IL

I think most people can relate to your post in one way or another. You conveyed yourself very well.

Have you been through any in resident PTSD programs? Some can give you some really good tools to help with the things you mentioned...life skills. It helps take the edge off, and minimize the fear. It helps put you back in the driver's seat, to act, as opposed to react...you know

I haven't been to any programs because they usually end up to be forums for guys that want to monopolize the entire group with their own issues. They have no regard for anyone else.

Besides, I'm not sure how a group can help me with my startle response or my bad dreams.

The type of group I attended was a Life Management Skills course. It was structured as a group but was geared toward group instruction. You could participate with questions or offer information, but not war stories. It is geared for the here and now.

The classes consisted of Emotional Self Management, Time Management, Problem Solving, Interpersonal Skills, Effective Goal Setting, Stress Management, and Cognitive Therapy. So, yes, they can be applied directly to those two issues as well as many more.

Cognitive Therapy is the only interactive one. This group session allows any member to volunteer to share a specific event that happened. It is determined by the instructor and the members of the group which skills could be applied to the situation. It is then broken down into the model and then actions are suggested that are geared to that specific situation. The person is then given that as a homework assignment to take out into life and try to apply over the week-end or week depending on whether he commutes or is in-resident. The next session the person gives feed-back to the group and it goes from there...another person volunteers if they so desire.

There are many approaches to treating PTSD. I found that to be a very practical approach. You can see a cousellor/psych on an individual basis for trauma work, or to get on the correct meds, or see a physician for physical problems, attend a substance abuse group first, etc. This gruoup puts you in the groove, so to speak, with many options available.

From your comments, I thought this seemed to be something that might interest you.

Il, You posted well and didn't do anything wrong. I have put my share of civilians down, who have triggered me,....and after getting arrested for things I didn't realize I had done,.. this behavior had to stop. Treatment is what helped me. Check the other PTSD threads.

Some peaple with PTSD make light humor about their serious PTSD issues. This shows an understanding with a smile to another Brother or Sister who suffers from PTSD. Respectfully, Flash.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by InstructorLoad:
I haven't been to any programs because they usually end up to be forums for guys that want to monopolize the entire group with their own issues. They have no regard for anyone else.
QUOTE]
Besides, I'm not sure how a group can help me with my startle response or my bad dreams.[/


Other than my 'Forumily' here I have no social contact with anybody except for my PTSD Group that I attend once aweek. If group goes bad for you,....walk out. Then try again next week or wait a couple of weeks...or try a different group. I have been living with Combat PTSD for 36 years. This is where I'm coming from......I also wouldn't want you to be like me when you're 58 yrs old,.....a recluse in the boonies.... and only having a group that has the occasional a**hole taking over the group when he shows up. However, I learned how to deal with them guys that have no regard for others when they flame,....or.. I would have No social interaction with other humans , let alone 'Civilians', as this thread is titled. That flaming Vet in group to me is a Brother, and I tolerate him out of respect and listen to what he has to say so that, if possible, I may be of help to him/her. They may also may be not properly medicated.
The only exception would be if that Vet is a 'Phoney'.

I was serious as a heart attack, when I stated that I have had it with Civilians. All I have to do with is Vets, retred, AD,....peaple I can relate to that have inteligence, strong moral values, character, strength, principles and other qualities, that a 'Civilian" doesn't have... I have family in the military... I can not relate to anybody in my age group that has not served in the military,..... not just combat Vets, but all Vets that served,.. no matter what he/she did, or where they served, or when.

I still have nightmares every night, so if your stressors are relatively recent ,... I suggest that you aggresively seek proper treatment. I also suggest that you read the other PTSD threds on this forum that may hepl you with understanding your PTSD symtoms and also realize that there are many more out there that realize what you are going through.
Welcome Home,......Flash

PTSD treatment is a VERY individual matter.

Some treatment works for some, not for others.

The thing here that's important is this: Figuring out what works for YOU is the ultimate goal. PTSD is not the patient's fault. The very nature of PTSD is that it is a 'constellation' definition of a wide variety of symptoms that people experience and encompasses much more than a single, defined reaction to traumatic experience.

So, the long-term goal is to learn what helps, what doesn't help. Stick with the things that do help, let the 'treatments' that don't help go by: Remember, the first onset of PTSD symptoms can be terrifying and that's exactly the point to seek whatever responsible help that is available. Don't put it off.

HI DUKE, (InstructorLoad)

Welcome to the "noncivilian" home. After 36+ years of civilian life, I STILL can't get used to those people out there.

I would like to recommend the VFW or some military oriented establishment to enjoy those beers. If you were in Minnesota I'd be happy to join you. The people there are much more understanding of our world AND they will usually buy another round instead of hitting you over the head with one.

And for those against drinking...a "few" drinks help me to relax and remove the demons from my head for a short time, there is nothing wrong or evil with doing that as long as it is in moderation and you have alternate means of getting home. ENJOY.

Also, you should ask the VA for help through "Mental Health - Outpatient Clinic", it's one on one with a psychiatrist, I never liked the "group therapy" thing, either. I'm not interested in their problems and their not interested in mine.

TAKE CARE, BROTHER.

I guess what I was trying to say in the above posts was that not all groups are geared that way, or foster that type of environment. I have found that alot of the guys do care about their brothers...for real; maybe not too interested in the problems, because they seem to have a common root, but in the solutions.

I'd like to thank everyone for the kind words and great advice. I wish we could all live in a place called "Veteran Town" and wouldn't have to deal with civilians at all but...

One problem I've always had with talking to "Mental Health Professionals" is that for the most part they've never experienced the afflictions that they treat.

I could talk to you all day long about how to ride a bicycle. I could show you videos and give you lengthy instructions. But until you get on the thing and start pedaling, you'll never really know how to do it or what it's like. Know what I mean?

I've been "treated" by all manner of doctors and actually insulted by many of them. One older doctor once told me that I had a lot of anger issues. I hope it didn't take seven years of college for him to realize that. I think the best therapy would be to surround myself with Veterans. Hence, the comment about Veteran Town.

When I moved to this town I joined the VFW and was quickly disappointed because all of the members were so old that they didn't really have any desire to do anything significant for the community. And being old guys, they didn't like change or any of my suggestions. It was really sad. I'm sure that not all VFW's are like that. But the one in my town is. And with 13 attending members there's a lot of weird political stuff going on. It's pretty sad to watch. It's like a boyscout troop gone bad, except most of them can't remember the troop number.

I know this was a long post. But please understand that I don't think I'm special or different than any of you in any way. Since I'm new (again) I sort of wanted to expound on my past experience so you'd know where I was coming from.

I sure do appreciate all of you and the things you have to say. I've been off of Mil.com for over a year, but I think it may just become part of my therapy. Thanks to you all. And thanks for calling me, "Brother".

Welcome Home to All!

I had a similar experience with a VFW in Ohio when I first returned from Vietnam and left, never to return again. I think that individual posts have really different points of view and levels of acceptance.

What matters is that we can help the new returning vets with our experience given the chance. That's a golden opportunity for all of us.

Just a thought.

GOOD THOUGHT OldAFcop:

What we have here is the ABILITY to communicate. As in 'Nam, everyone fought their own war, here everyone has seen a different war and uses their experiences to help one another. Us "old warhorses" can use what we learned to help the young "kids" to deal with theirs. We are all here for a reason.

InstructorLoad:
I had the same experience upon my return from 'Nam, AFcop had. Some of us went into a VFW, proud to be "equals" and were virtually thrown out "because we were baby killers and losing our war". Not good enough for those old men. I told them, in 'Nam EVERY major battle fought was WON by the US, could they say the same about WW II. NO!!!

As for the shrinks...I went to a Vet Center, where I was told I "used to have PTSD, but it went away." ???!!??? OKaaaaayyy???

Then, I had 2 separate Dr. who refused to discuss Vietnam or anything concerning the military and kept insisting there was nothing wrong with me. So much for that crap!!!

I was only offering some alternatives that might work for you. I've heard some places have decent VFW's and good VA shrinks, I don't know where thay are, either. Most VFW's today are 'Nam Vets, but they have little respect for there fellow veterans. I don't want to get into that because some of them might be listening.

Best thing is to NOT talk about your military experiences with civilians. We're here and are listening, talk all day if want, Brother.

Oh, another VFW thought, speaking about lack of interests...
I had the opportunity to design a new building for one about 20 miles from here. The Committee was a good group and I gave them a real good design. When it came time for the approval vote, it got shot down because "noone planned on living long enough to enjoy it, so why waste the money". Talk about doing anything for the community. It would have given them a meeting space, huge area for Wedding Receptions and a nicer VFW than the renovated auto garage with a bar they were in.

quote:

We're here and are listening, talk all day if want, Brother.

You can bet on that. No bashing or belly-bumping here.

Thanks for bringing up that!