The tacking of a crow on is a tradition and is at most commands. At least it was when I got out in 97. However, with the new kinder gentler Navy it is considered hazing and not encouraged. Mainly because to many momma's boys and women were complaining about it.

Thanks for the update on tacking on of the Crows. I wasn't sure if this was still around or not. I have to say that most of the guys "tacked" my Crow on with courtesy, as a way of keeping traditions alive. For many it was a way of saying "Congratulations!" and "Welcome to the ranks of Petty Officers!". A very few were downright vicious - probably the one's that cause traditions to fade away.

Had PO3 & PO2 tacked . Had my dolphins tacked and drank em and got thrown off the pier in PI . Lots of people had that happen . But that was 72/77 some of the tackings were harsh but you delt . The pc about the whineing caused the traditions to fade .

quote:

Originally posted by MastersMate:
Those rating badges were worn on either the right arm or left arm, just depended on whether you were in the starboard or port watch.

No.

The sleeve was determined by the rate itself, not the watch. Otherwise they would have had to embroider rate patches with eagles facing right and eagles facing left.

"Right Arm" rates were "fight the ship" rates, Boatswain's Mate, Quartermaster, Gunner's Mate, etc.

"Left Arm" rates were specialty rates not involved in the tactical performance of the ship, e.g., Yeoman, Carpenter, etc.

Up to and including WWII there were colored strips at the right or left shoulder of unrated personnel that indicated their watch.

Going back to the turn of the last century,
The 1897 through about 1913 ratings were worn on either arm, depending on the watch. The 1897 and 1905 Uniform regs bear it out. I believe it was the 1913 Uniform Regs that changed the Seamans Branch rating badges to the right arm, and the other branches to the left arm.

Oddly, the eagle did face aft on those left arm badges. In 1940 the design was changed to have the eagle face forward on both arms. One theory I'd read mentioned it was to signify facing the enemy, with WW2 starting up.

The 1948 revisions to the ratings ended the right arm ratings and the branch marks for seamen and firemen. The marks used today came about then.

I was told the story of why the EM (Electrician’s Mate) insignia is a globe.

About 100 years ago, When the rate was spun off of it’s predecessor and a new rating badge was required it was decided that the insignia would be a globe.

An RFP was issued and a contract awarder to manufacture about a hundreded eleventy thousand new EM crows for the fleet but when they arrived it was discovered that they had a world map embroidered where the globe should be.

The Navy refused them.. The contractor sued.. The court awarded to the contractor. According to the court the Navy specified a globe on the badge and a map of the world was a globe.

In early Navy Speak a Globe was the glass cover for a light bulb.. the symbol of an Electrician..

Since the Navy now owned about a hundreded eleventy thousand new EM crows with maps of the world on them.. they were issued and it is history.

Mine was TACKED on for good, or so it felt like, the next day. I could not lift my arm for awhile. I am sitting here reading my NAVPERS 2914 (New 3-62), the document signed the 16th day of July, 1967 that officially appointed me as an AVIATION MACHINIST'S MATE "J" THIRD CLASS. I was in VA-212 on the U.S.S. BonHomme Richard in Tonkin Gulf at the time. A proud moment for me.

The wording of the document:

DEPARTMENT OF THE NAVY - UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
To all who shall see these presents, greeting: Know Ye, that reposing speical trust and confidence in the fidelity and ability of RICHARD LAWRENCE BENNER, I do appoint him AVIATION MACHINIST'S MATE "J" THIRD CLASS in the UNITED STATES NAVY to rank as such from the SIXTEENTH day of JULY, Nineteen hundred and Sixty-Seven.
To the Appointee
Your appointment as a petty officer in the United States Navy carries with it the obligation that you exercies additional authority and willingly accept greater responsibility.
You have not only the authority, but the responsibility to ensure that subordinates comply with the provisions of United States Navy Regulations, General Orders, and supproting orders and idrectives. You have the obligation to report to porper authority , all offenses committed by persons in the naval service which you may ovserve, and have the authority , as delineated in the Uniform Code of Military Justice, to apprehend know offenders. These responsibilities apply whether you are in a duty or liberty status.
You ar legally and morall obligated to show in yourself a good example of subordination, courage, zeal, sobriety, neatness, and attention to duty. Your every action must be governed by a stron sense of personal moral responsibility in order that this personal ledership will strengthen the character of subordinates so that they will contribute thier utmost to the effectiveness and efficiency of the United States Navy.
Given under my hand at ATRON TWO HUNDRED TWELVE this SIXTEENTH day of JULY in the year of our Lord, nineteen hundred and Sixty-Seven.
Marvin M. Quaid, COMMANDER,U.S.NAVY
COMMANDING OFFICER ATTACK SQUADRON TWO HUNDRED TWELVE.

I acknowledge receipt of the above appointment and do hereby pledge that I shall, in all my actions, faithfully discharge the duties and responsibilities of this office.
Richard L. Benner

NAVPERS 2914 (New 3-62)

quote:

RichardBenner

I was told I had passed the test to SO3 and was told I was too dumb to have passed it. But as I did, to sew it on. Had to buy it and never did get anything saying I had been promoted outside of a notation in my records. Then when I got out, it was changed to SOG 3. No reason when asked about. Thought it was a secret.

Hey Navy experts! Here's a question I hope someone can answer: "Why do enlisted Navy guys only wear their rank on one side?" Any theories or ideas? Thanks!

quote:

Hey Navy experts! Here's a question I hope someone can answer: "Why do enlisted Navy guys only wear their rank on one side?" Any theories or ideas? Thanks!

Could be a long drawn out topic, but in a nut shell,

The Navy rating badge does more than indicate "rank", it also indicates occupation specialty. In the late 19th and early 20th century the sleeve with the rating badge indicated which watch the sailor was assigned to , port or starboard.

1913 the rating badge was changed so that seaman branch ratings wore the badge on the right sleeve, and other branches wore the badge on the left sleeve.

In 1947 or so there was a move to completely change the Navy uniform and one of the changes was a rating badge on both sleeves. That went over like a fart in church and was dropped.

Useless trivia tidbit, but from about 1949 to 1953 CPOs wore a khaki rating badge on their longsleeve shirt, to indicate rating, well before the CPO collar insignia.

A brief answer, I hope.

while cleaning up some files, I ended up dumping these from the beginning of the thread. Will add them back on for those interested that still poke into this.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MastersMate,

Not sure if any of you have looked at this or not... But here is a website which sheds some other light on Navy rating badges after WWII.
http://www.eugeneleeslover.com/GS-USN-PAGE.html

Read in the text under Gene Slover's picture and also drop down and click on

THE PECKING ORDER OF USN PETTY OFFICER RATINGS

If you have already checked this out, then disregard

"May You Have Fair Winds and Following Seas"

Wow this is cool stuff. My rating AE One of the best threads on the site very useful information. As for the tacking My crow was "securely" fastened on in 93 and (embarrased) when it was placed on again in 2000 it was tacked on as well even the Chiefs did it as well. Had quite the bruising on the left arm and very firm handshakes.

The history of the ratings is quite great. Do you know when the Carpetners Mate rating was eliminated? My Great Grandfather was a Carpetner's mate during WWI and Grandfather HT for WWII father was a AMS during Vietnam and myself following in the Airdale brown shoes an AE.

Here is a question, when did the black / brown shoe start along with the rivalry.

AE3(AW) Clifton,

Glad you enjoyed the info on this subject. As I said, it was while I was in Jr High or High school when I read about the Pre-war WWII rivalry between the Back Shoe Navy and Brown Shoe Navy. Here is a Airdale related website which may help you.

http://www.vpnavy.com/

Also if you search the Naval Historical Center, you may be able to track down further info.

http://www.history.navy.mil/

I'd bet your best way would be to talk to a WWII Navy Aviation vet, pilot type, or Combat A/C member. But act quickly, they are fading fast. One reason I decided to join US SubVets of WWII as an associate member, is to gain as much first hand knowledge about so many things that have never been recorded, but will be forever lost when all of those GREAT and WONDERFUL men are sadly gone forever...

Anyway, you have some info to run with. Good luck and let us all know what you find out.

May You Have Fair Winds and Following Seas.

PS, about the Carpenters Mate Rating, I know it transitioned to DC Damage Control, same symbol but different name, but when I do not know???....

Just like in WWII and before Boilerman BT, was called WT, Water Tender, same symbol, different name. And Rate/Rating was recoded differently then too. A BMC was in WWII and before was a CMB and a GM1 was a GM1c. If you ever get to Pearl Harbor, by all means go to the Arizona Memorial. It will show the Rate/Ratings as they were then.

Thank you for the links and the insight I will most definately look into it. This is one of the great threads on this site

I stand corrected!

Earlier I had stated back to AE3(AW) Clifton that the WWII Carpenter's Mate Rating Badge was the same as DC. Not true... Go to the following link. More interesting stuff.

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/patches/other2/ngrade5a.html

Note the Bugler and Enlisted Aviation Pilot. (I knew a fellow who retired as a LCDR. He was an Enlisted Aviation Pilot in WWII and was the pistol team coach at Annapolis for many years afterwards). This past June I meet a fellow who is an associate member of U.S. SubVets of WWII, he wears a Buglers 3rd Class Crow on his SubVets Vest. I believe he served on a Sub Tender in WWII.

April 1948 was the date when the present day rating structure and abbreviations were adopted.

All the rating badges were shifted to the left arm. That had to be completed by April 1949.

Thought I'd copy this bit of info over here, from the history site. Someone had asked about the Stewards/Mess Attendants in WW2. So before it gets buried over there,

Concerning uniforms and rating badges for Mess Attendants/Stewards Mate/Steward

Mess Attendant/Stewards Mate were non rated much like the E-1 thru E-3 of today

Mess Attendant 3rd Class was the Seaman Recruit, 1 stripe on cuff
Mess Attendant 2nd Class was the Seaman Apprentice,2 stripes on cuff
Mess Attendant 1st Class was the Seaman, 3 stripes on cuff
They wore the standard Navy "square rig" uniform.

A Steward 3rd class thru Chief Steward, and Cook 3rd class thru Chief Cook, wore a CPO type uniform. The difference was black buttons and a cap device with the silver letters USN on the CPO style cap. The rating badge was a crescent moon with either one to four horizontal bars beneath it.


In Aug 1944 the Steward & Cook were authorized a regular petty officer rating badge with the eagle, crescent and chevrons as per grade.

In 1950, Stewards were made petty officers and 1st class and below shifted to the standard USN uniform.

Ships Cooks & Ships Bakers wore the standard Navy uniforms for 3rd class thru 1st class and the crescent moon was their specialty mark. The CPO grade was titled Chief Commissary Steward.

A bit long winded, hope it is of any help.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MastersMate,

MastersMate, the Steward ratings you show are also what is still used in the Merchant Marine (that is for the few remaining Merchant Ships whose personnel still wear uniforms).

http://catalog.lighthouseuniform.com/merchantmarine/ind...=index&cPath=144_145

Respectfully,
Surface Force