I was active duty in the Navy for 8 years and the remaining 16 years a SELRES. Over many years in that time period I took time to read some of the historical facts that have come about in our Navy.
I would like to see if anyone was reading or hearing about the same or any others I missed.
Some of what we had in traditions and terms were carried over from our Royal Navy brothers and here are a few including other questions.

1.) "Heave out and trice up" In the 1970s- this meant to pull up the bottom-most rack in the compartment so sweepers could get to clean underneath it. What is the original meaning?
(Hint- it involved the entire crew watching)

2.) "Kiss the Gunner's Daughter." I'm a GMC and I never got to do that! Thank goodness, why I am so lucky not to have kissed the Gunner's Daughter?

3.) On the old ships,the wood constructed ones that is, why were the gundecks painted red? And where did the term "gundecking" come from?

4.) Who was on the JFK? Do you know why it was never a CVN and where would the reactor control room have been located had it been equipped with two reactors?

Best to all,

GMC John M.Staehle, USNR(Ret.) after 24 years as a Gunner's Mate, what else is there?

these ones are hard, chief.

Kissing (or marrying) the Gunners Daughter.

Punishment by Flogging

An old Royal Navy variation of being triced up to the grating for administering punishment. The seaman was lashed down over a gun and the flogging administered

quote:

Originally posted by MastersMate:
Kissing (or marrying) the Gunners Daughter.

Punishment by Flogging

An old Royal Navy variation of being triced up to the grating for administering punishment. The seaman was lashed down over a gun and the flogging administered

so why'd we get rid of that? !

Rumor had it that some of them liked it

quote:

1.) "Heave out and trice up" In the 1970s- this meant to pull up the bottom-most rack in the compartment so sweepers could get to clean underneath it. What is the original meaning?
(Hint- it involved the entire crew watching)

Does this qualify?

Heave Out and Trice Up

Good answers from all hands. The JFK was originally designed to be nuclear powered but as the ship was being built the USAF was receiving funding for more ICBMs so they got the money, this was published in a history of the modern aircraft carrier and I read the book while serving aboard the JFK 9/83- 6/85 in "W" Division as a GMT2.

Additionally, DCC would have been the reactor control room.

"Heave out and trice up" was the call to bring out the ship's brig prisoners for a lashing in front of the crew. All hands were required to watch and anyone not present except those on duty would receive the same punishment if not in the audience!

GMC

quote:

Originally posted by johncpo:
"Heave out and trice up" was the call to bring out the ship's brig prisoners for a lashing in front of the crew. All hands were required to watch and anyone not present except those on duty would receive the same punishment if not in the audience!

GMC

Now that would be a darn site better at getting the troops out of their racks in a hurry!

Gun Decks were painted red "back in the day" so the gun crews wouldn't get so freaked out by all the blood due to injuries from all those close in broadside cannon engagements. As in "Master and Commander" with Russell Crowe. GREAT FLICK!!!, one of my favorites. Love it how they get the drop on the Frenchys in the end.

"Remember, Surprise is on our side...."

1:...Heave Out and Trice Up
"Reville... Reville... Heave out and trice up... Smoking lamp is lighted in all authorized smoking areas. Rise and shine, morning glories... Up and at' em. Drop your cocks and grab your socks... Move it ladies. Chow is being served... C'mon you ugly bastards, MOVE IT! I'm not issuing personal invitations. Let's hear feet hitting' the deck. Okay darlings, I want to see some activity... Hot coffee... Another day in Arliegh Burke's Canoe Club... C'mon you mattress-back sweethearts... MOVE IT!!"


2:...Kiss the Gunner's Daughter
While adult sailors received their lashes on the back, they were administered to boys on the bare posterior, usually while "kissing the gunner's daughter" (bending over a gun barrel), just as boys' lighter 'daily' chastisement was usually over their (often naked) rear-end (mainly with a cane — this could be applied to the hand, but captains generally refused such impractical disablement — or a rope's end). Bare-bottom discipline was a tradition of the English upper and middle classes, who frequented public schools, so midshipmen (trainee officers, usually from ‘good families’, getting a cheaper equivalent education by enlisting) were not spared, at best sometimes allowed to receive their lashes inside a cabin. Still, it is reported that the ‘infantile’ humiliation of bare stern punishment was believed essential for optimal deterrence; cocky miscreants might brave the pain of the adult cat in the macho spirit of ‘taking it like a man’ or even as a ‘badge of honor’.
The still-popular sailor's song What do you do with a Drunken Sailor? has a verse that goes "Give him a taste of the captain's daughter" or "Throw him in bed with the captain's daughter". While this doesn't sound like a dire fate for the tipsy seaman, the term "captain's daughter" referred in naval jargon to the cat o' nine tails or a similar whip.
The expression "to kiss the gunner's daughter" equally referred to a boy bending over a field gun, usually tied down, the trousers lowered, exposing the buttocks for a sound public spanking (often with a cane or birch), while adult sailors got their back striped in upright position.

3:... gundecking
In the modern Navy, falsifying reports, records and the like is often referred to as "gundecking." The origin of the term is somewhat obscure, but at the risk of gundecking, here are two plausible explanations for its modern usage.

The first relates to ship construction. The deck below the upper deck on British sailing ships-of-war was called the gundeck although it carried no guns. This false deck may have been constructed to deceive enemies as to the amount of armament carried, thus the gundeck was a falsification.

A more plausible explanation may stem from shortcuts taken by early Midshipmen when doing their navigation lessons. Each Mid was supposed to take sun lines at noon and star sights at night and then go below to the gundeck, work out their calculations and show them to the Navigator. Certain of these young men, however, had a special formula for getting the correct answers. They would note the noon or last position on the quarter-deck traverse board and determine the approximate current position by dead reckoning plotting. Armed with this information, they proceeded to the gundeck to "gundeck" their navigation homework by simply working backwards from the dead reckoning position.

Physical gundecks no longer exist in modern ships, but the concept of falsifying reports continues alive and well with the humans.

3A;... gundecks painted red
The cable locker is on the orlop deck - the deck used for tending wounded men in battle. The red painted deck is not to hide the blood - red ochre paint was the cheapest form of waterproof paint available at the time. Below this deck is the hold and it was important to prevent the seepage of water through to the hold below. The orlop was the safest deck in the ship. Consequently it housed the surgeon's facilities for treating wounds and performing the many immediate amputations necessary during the bloody sea battles. On English ships the orlop was usually painted bright red to hide the rivers of blood that flowed from the surgeon's table. The deck above the holds in the old ships, what would now be called the platform deck, was known as the orlop deck, a contraction of 'overlap', a word of Dutch origin meaning 'that which runs over the hold'. In H.M.S. Victory this deck is painted red; the wounded were taken there to be tended by the ship's surgeon. On this first deck below the waterline they were safer and their blood was not so noticeable against the red paint of the deck

4:... Who was on the JFK
http://www.navybuddies.com/cvn/cv67.htm
Man who rescued JFK finally honoured
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4185473a12.html

The names of the men in JFK's (Lt. Kennedy's) PT 109 crew are:

Harold Marney
Andrew Jackson Kirksey
George "Barney" Ross
Leonard J. Thom
William Johnston
Raymond Starkey
Patrick McMahon
Leon Drawdy
Maurice Kowal
Edmund Drewitch
Edgar Mauer
Gerald Zinser
John E. Maguire
Charles "Bucky" Harris

Kissing the gunner's daughter was a punishment usually reserved for midshipmen.

So howcum nobody mentioned, "shiver me timbers"?

I've heard a lot of different meanings on Trice up. I've heard that back when they had cot like racks, it meant to tighten the string connecting the rack to the pole frame. I also heard it meant putting your hammock away. Now days, tricing someone up involves flipping there coffin locker up and putting the bar down while they are in it. This is usually done after the idiot left his rack unlocked.

Just couldn't resist putting these old salts into the thread. Think they are talking about gun decking?

To all hands,

Thanks for the terrific responses !

johncpo

(1) some research I've done indicates that "heave out"= get out of your hammock NOW! and "trice up" was either:
(a) taking the bottom clews and hooking it over the head clew to "fold' the hammock, or
(b) rolling the hammock with the traditional nine marling hitches and then suspending it from the overhead to clear deck space.

The RN (as we know from Mr. O'Brien's wonderful books) used them to line the nettings at the rails in warships to catch splinters.

(2)Chief Torpedoman, is that a painting and if so what information can you give me on it (date, artist, etc)?

I ask because it confirms a few of my suspicions as to the "Boatswain's Call Lanyard" and "Seaman's Knife Lanyard": If this is a portrait of Civil War-era veterans, then the information I've been given (that lanyards of that day were always black, and that the lanyard and call was the ship's, rather than the individual sailor's possession) is incorrect.

May not mean much in the big scheme of things, but I do some lecturing on such trivia and would like to correct myself if I've been wrong.

Off-line to me at artisan@frayedknotarts.com would be just fine.

Anyone else with opinions on this, put 'em here so we can see 'em, hey?

Thanks all! Happy Holidays!

Just turning notifications on... fergot to do it!

quote:

is that a painting and if so what information can you give me on it (date, artist, etc)?

This painting, entitled "Spinning a Yarn" by Rufus F. Zogbaum in 1923, was inspired by this photograph, available at the Naval Historical Center:































The edge of the photo didn't transfer for some reason - it says USS MOHICAN 1888.

There is some text to go with it:

"The Old Navy", photograph taken by Assistant Surgeon H.W. Whitaker, U.S.N., on board USS Mohican at sea in the Pacific, 1888.

The four men, with a brief transcript of their services, are:

1. Gilbert H. Purdy, who is standing addressing the others. Purdy was born in 1828, and therefore was 60 years old when the picture was taken. He was a physically powerful man and was remarkably well preserved, as is shown by the photograph. He died December 24, 1912, at San Diego, California, at the age of 84, being at the time of his death the oldest man on the retired list of the Navy. During the Civil War he served as sergeant in Battery K, 4th U.S. Artillery, and as a seaman on board several Naval vessels. He, also, had the honor of serving under Admiral Dewey on the Olympia during the Spanish-American War. He was transferred to the retired list on February 7, 1900. Purdy served as captain of the hold on board the Mohican from May 25, 1885 to August 28, 1888.

2. David Ireland, seated with arms folded. Ireland was born in 1833, and was, therefore, 55 years old when the picture was taken. He first enlisted in the Navy on April 8, 1850, so he had seen 38 years of service ... He served on many ships in all parts of the world and died at the Mare Island Hospital on January 16, 1894, aged 61 years. He served on board the Mohican from May 25, 1885, to November 20, 1890, as captain of the forecastle, seaman, and captain of the hold.

3. John King, seated on ditty box. King was born in England in 1834, so at the time the picture was taken was 54 years old. He followed the sea in merchant ships for a number of years before enlisting in the Navy, which he first did on April 9, 1875, he then being in his 42nd year. He was finally discharged on April 2, 1896, and admitted to the Naval Home at Philadelphia. He served on board the Mohican from May 25, 1885, to January 25, 1889, as chief gunner's mate. The exact date of his death is not known.

4. John T. Griffith, seated with hands behind his head. Griffith was born at Albany, New York, December 25, 1826, being 62 years of age when the picture was taken, and the oldest man of the group. The record of his first enlistment is not at hand, but he last enlisted on October 18, 1888, and was finally discharged on December 10, 1889. He served on board the Mohican as chief carpenter's mate from June 3 to June 30, 1888. The date of his death is not known.

Hope this helps you out!
Kevin