The Old Rascals Will Remember
by Bob "Dex" Armstrong
This is one from the heart. Not that anyone probably gives a damn or has a reason to, but it is the 'two cents worth' of an old ex-bluejacket who was once afforded membership in what he considers the finest organization ever assembled: The United States Naval Submarine Force.


It gave me love and a respect for heritage and tradition, that allowed me to recognize that I have a place in the continuous chain that is the history of
the U.S. Navy. I was a part of that history.


When I joined, every incoming raghat was given a book: This is Your Navy, by Theodore Roscoe. The same gentleman who wrote Submarine Operations of World War II and Destroyer Operations of World War II (Later published in
popular paperback form as Pigboats and Tin Cans).


This is Your Navy was published by the U.S. Naval Institute to provide each incoming prospective bluejacket a single volume history of the Navy. It was written in the style of a yarn, a salty language adventure: It was great. Any young man who failed to be ignited by that book would have to be one 'soul dead', sonuva*****. It is my all-time favorite book.


The first time I read it, I was on a bus going from Great Lakes to a receiving station: Stayed up all night reading it. Any book that keeps an
eighteen-year-old idiot up until dawn reading by the overhead light on a Trailways bus is one damn great book.


Over the years the book fell apart and after that I don't have any idea what happened to it. In the years since, I have haunted a lot of used book stores trying to locate a copy. They gave one to every sailor, so what the hell happened to all of them? But that doesn't have a damn thing to do with the intent of this piece.


The history of the Navy is our legacy. It was passed to us and it is up to us to keep it intact and pass it undiminished to future generations. That is
our obligation: No, more like a sacred duty.


Take our uniform: The one the uninitiated refer to as the 'Crackerjack suit'. That uniform in an earlier form, but easily recognized by my
generation of sailor, was worn by Civil War sailors: And every succeeding generation of seagoing enlisted sailor since.


The U.S. Navy uniform is unique. First, no other service has maintained the continuity of their dress uniform. Your low-neck jumper blues: Those
thirteen-button low-neck jumper blues predate anything worn by our sister services. It has within it's seams, a valiant history of sacrifice and
devotion: It is a symbol both recognized and respected by every seagoing sailor in the world. For well over a hundred years, it has been the hallmark
of the protector of freedom of the seas. Good men have been proud to have been buried in it and gallant souls have died wearing it in service to their
country.


It is a uniform that lends itself to individual expression. In a world of regulation and the application of strict standards, the powers that be,
turned a blind eye to the eccentric liberties taken with the beloved 'dress canvas' uniform. It has always belonged to the bluejacket and has been
accepted as his expression of the pride he has in himself and the fleet he served.


Roy Ator, an officer who was a first rate submariner, once was a bluejacket. He rolled his raghat. Men, who wore a rolled hat, would gently roll the rim and stuff it under the front of their jumper in a chow line. Guys who preferred 'wings' in their white hats, tucked the edges under then folded
it in the middle, then took it and stuffed it in the back of their jumper collar. Nobody taught you to do it: You just did it, because sailors had always done it.


Some sailors meticulously took a dime and painstakingly rolled their neckerchiefs until they looked like a yard's worth of garden hose: Other
lazy bastards (like myself) would take their neckerchief to some gal at a naval tailors and have her turn out what was known as a 'greasy snake': You could get two 'snakes' out of a regulation neckerchief. Pressed flat, they looked great and were light enough to blow all over hell and half Georgia in a light breeze.


Some tied their knot at the bottom of the 'V' of their jumper collar: Others liked a high knot a couple of inches above the 'V'. Sure, the old
barnacle butt CPOs would rag you...


"Dex you look like a gahdam Pogey Bait Fennolly Hopper."


Never knew what a Fennolly Hopper was: Only know I looked like one so Stuke must have looked like one too. Only old heavy gut-ballasted Chief Petty Officers had actually seen whatever Pogey Bait Fennolly Hoppers were 'cause the last one died before Abe Lincoln was born. SUBRON Six had a couple of old bastards that had dated Abe's mother when she had all her own teeth.


The trou: The old stand-by thirteen-button blue bellbottoms had a pocket for a pocket watch. By 1959, it had become a 'Zippo lighter' pocket. You
tucked your pack of whatever you smoked in your sock. Your wallet got folded clam shell style and got folded over the top of the waist of your trou and
you pulled your jumper down to cover it: Every barmaid and hooker knew the exact location.


You never put anything in your jumper pocket except your I.D. and liberty card. Anything else looked like hell and if you were wearing whites,
reaching in your pocket for stuff would get it dirty. A good set of tailor made, seafarer whites had a patch pocket instead of the weird slit pocket that came on regulation whites. A real set of thirteen- button blues or whites had no belt loops. Instead there were a series of eyelets right above the terminal point of your *** crack called 'gussets' and you had a mate lace them up and square knot them to your size. It was 'Navy': Old Navy: Back then, being 'Old Navy' was damned important.


So you decked yourself out in dress canvas: Rolled across your quarterdeck: Popped a snappy salute to the colors aft: The Topside Watch hollered, "Hey Dex, if you get laid twice, bring me back one."


"Sure horsefly, you bet."


And, you were off to terrorize the civilian population: You were in Arliegh Burke's Navy and you looked like an American bluejacket: Because that was exactly what you were.


It is what every saltwater, deep-diving sonuva***** who came before you was: And in 1959, we all knew deep down in our hearts that would always be the way it was. Nobody would ever be so gahdam stupid as to let go of that uniform. Hell, we all knew that our sons and grandsons would some- day wear that wonderful symbol of the finest Navy that God ever assembled.


At the time it was called Indo-China, nobody knew where it was: Or cared. Nobody had ever heard of Elmo Zumwalt, the forward thinker who invented saltwater mediocrity. And somewhere, somebody decided thirteen button blues were outdated and that the history of the United States Navy was not enough to excite young men so they created compensation and education bribes: And
quit handing young lads copies of This is Your Navy by Theodore Roscoe.


They trashed the dear and meaningful for a bunch of superficial, meaningless horseshit and called it progress: Shame on the bastards.


Aye


Herm Chambers

Other good reads for Old Navy (before it was a brandname) flavor are:

The Sand Pebbles by Richard McKenna

White Hats by Floyd Beaver

Jade Rooster by R. L. Crossland

Now, put that in your flat hat.

Your post brought back a lot of memories Chief. I wore the white hat and thirteen button bell bottomed blues for fifteen years, from 1947 until 1962 when I put on the "hat". Back then you didn't mistake a Navy Man for a bus driver or a member of the Air Force, we were SAILORS. I liked the inscription on Adm. Burke's tombstone, "Here lies a Sailor" and his wife's "Here lies a Sailors wife", that says it all. Don't remember the book "This is your Navy", I was issued the "Blue Jackets Manual" in boot camp and I still have it around somewhere.
I discovered this site yesterday and am enjoying reading the postings.

Regards,

Chief T...
This thread is the best.
History, old uniform traditions, books, Just great.
I wore the Bell Bottoms from 53 to 62, and suffered thru Adm Z grams as well.
I remeber a book Naval Leadership, and Naval Traditions, both from the Naval Institute. These were written for all Sailors, salty and to the point. Also, a Course on Naval History by Capt Morrison, in the 60s.
Traditon, customs, all tie into morale. At the time, we FELT this continuing tie to the old timers, partly due to their sea stories, the books of history and a sense that we were carrying on the tradtions.
I was fortunate to know and serve with WW 2 folks, who had an esprite de corps unfettered with political correctness.
We, who have the duty to write, compile and carry forward OUR part of the history have the ideal forum, MIL.COM
Thanks
end

To clarify I am only 22 but I am a huge Naval History fan, anyway from all the research I have done and things I have read about Adm Z it seems to me like he did a hell of a lot to moderize the Navy. Includeing establisment of the MCPON position, allowing civilian attire when leaveing the ship, Post deployment leave, Equal Opportunity Programs, and many more positve rules an regulations that help to further improve the Navy. By the way I have a link to his Z Grams.

ALL
I have been off the discussion board for a bit
But today I reviewed a film of ops abd the USS Forestal. Specifically, the 1967 fire, where we lost 134 Sailors. If not for the grace of G.. there I would have been. Up for transfer, but derailed to school and another squadron.
Today, We have volunteers on the ground, as IA(sic) and serving well. We, all of us who stood on the wall, need to, each in our own way, salute these Sailors of valor today. The USN is still Projecting Power forward, still on the Blue waters, still standing guard for our freedoms, with reduced folks, ships, even with the lousy uniform changes enroute. The question is still, when the chips are down, "Where are the Carriers?.
Nuff said.
end

I always put "wings" in my "dixie cup", had a dime center to the neckerchief, wore the knot as high as I could get away with, had "liberty patches" inside the cuff of my "tailor-mades" (you couldn't get a set of orders inside that jumper with me!), tied innumerable gussets for my crewmates and, yeah.... bopping over the brow ready for whatever in your blues you looked and felt like a "real sailor".

Bravo Zulu on this thread. Brings back some good memories!

Personally I thought that there was nothing better than a "salty" petty officer in his dress blues. Ah, Liberty cuffs, oh for the sight of my dragons on the cuffs. We cheated and had our neckerchiefs steam rolled or had the PRs sew the tube in them to make the permanent knot. Those were the days.....

I had Hong Kong made gabardine dress blues with 24" bells. I had liberty cuffs and also had a beautiful Chinese dragon embroidered inside the
flap on my bell bottoms. I had an old wwii chief tell me the reason there were thirteen buttons on the trouser was so she had thirteen chances to say no.

"Dex" Armstrong can really write!!! His words written on the link below tipped me over the edge into joining USSVI.

http://www.olgoat.com/substuff/dex208.htm

Yep had a "greasy snake" rolled at Seven Seas on Broadway, Liberty Cuffs sewn on to my issue jumper, and had a set of tailor mades made up in Italy while in the Med.. Boy those were wonderful days. I always preferred a roll in my white hat too.

quote:

Originally posted by LJC:
I had Hong Kong made gabardine dress blues with 24" bells. I had liberty cuffs and also had a beautiful Chinese dragon embroidered inside the
flap on my bell bottoms. I had an old wwii chief tell me the reason there were thirteen buttons on the trouser was so she had thirteen chances to say no.

I did much the same. My Liberty cuff's were REBEL Flags. The Gabardine Dress Blues were sharp. As was the Rayon white hat. It actually glowed in the sun light. I went one step further and had snaps inside the flap behind each button. The patent leather low quarters were a big No No, on board. But looked good with all the other non regulation gear. I had a Pea coat made of the same material, had a Dragon embroidered on the underside of the collar. I think I spent a whole months pay on this stuff. I became infected with a case of DUMB A-- and had two Set's of dungarees tailor made.

My peacoat is still on active duty. My oldest son saw mine old one and liked it better than the new he had received, so he traded me. He now has fourteen years in on active duty and is a YN1. Wow, He's going to be thirty-six this year! Damn,where did all time go? Hell, next year will mark two decades since I was piped over the side!
Remember soaking your white hats in salt water to counteract the chemicals in the material so they wouldn't turn yellow when washed? The metal bucket setting in the shop with white hats soaking.

Darryl. It's good to know your son followed in his dad's footsteps. My son wanted to be a Combat Infantryman Like both of his Grand fathers and His Uncle BOB. Not that I;m not proud of him, BUT. JEB, I'm afraid My pea coat. Wouldn't fit me today. I was a slim trim 215lbs. when I said "NO MORE". I'm 245 now. I think I was 34in. around the waist.I'm a little bigger now, or as I say "not as svelt as I once was. Can I use your head now?

Thanks, yeah, I'm real proud of him. He tackled some jobs when he was a junior second that helped him get some pretty good assignments ashore. I only meddled in his career once as he had some trouble and I felt he was getting a raw deal, which he was, he called in some favors and the problem was taken care of as it should have been in the first place.
He has made the all Navy men's softball team twice now and is one heck of a ball player!
I have that problem with his, now my peacoat. It seems to have shrunk in the closet. I was 178 pounds when I retired. It would be nice to see 190 again!
Yes, you can use the new head, although I haven't put the door back on yet.... We still have a couple of things to move into the room, but the fixtures are hooked up and the water is back on. We'll get it finished this week.

quote:

At the time it was called Indo-China, nobody knew where it was: Or cared. Nobody had ever heard of Elmo Zumwalt, the forward thinker who invented saltwater mediocrity. And somewhere, somebody decided thirteen button blues were outdated and that the history of the United States Navy was not enough to excite young men so they created compensation and education bribes: And
quit handing young lads copies of This is Your Navy by Theodore Roscoe.

Chief T
Scanning the older posts, and this final part of your comment made my AM day.
Kudos to you for the post in all its glory. We need to remember How It Was as often as we can.
Thanks again
LKA
end

This is a little off course.

Does any old timers remember "Pro Stations"?
I saw one in Lisbon,Portugal