I’m the most senior ensign in my reserve unit, but am prior service. Not a mustang as there was a break in service. Am I still the Bull? Or do my 3+ enlisted years preclude me. The JORGE has something like 6 years each of active/reserve Navy time, so it’s a bit ridiculous for me to watch over him socially.

??? I dont speak officer

Shockey

Navy History Center
I see no mention of being prior enlisted disqualifying you from being the Bull.

From a Warrant Officer perspective, seniority among Ensigns is much the same as virginity in a cat house. Wishfull thinking

But I believe you're right, strictly a date of rank thing, and HUGE raincoat sized collar bars.

It’s not that any of us *want* the distinction, the JORG and I would rather *avoid* the designations, and let younger non-priors have the fun. As DCOs we’re older professionals, 36 and 40 – similar to LDOs, and have a pretty good grasp of where the butter bar fits in the scheme of things.

I can't help but wonder what the point even is of having a George (JORG is nothing but a backronym, and a stupid one at that) or a Bull Ensign at a reserve unit.

It's true that seniority among ensigns is like virtue among *hores, but experience is a different matter. The whole distinction is muddied when you're talking about DCO ensigns. Really the CO/XO or OIC/AOIC or whoever is filling a CO/XO-like role with the unit should be the one to determine the criteria for George and Bull.

The "Bull Ensign" is the senior Ensign at a command and the seniority is determined by commissioning date. Bull Ensign is a very temporary rank as the "Bull" is the next Ensign to be promoted to LTjg. The collar device is not the regular 1/4" by 1" gold bar, but the larger bar that is worn on the shoulder of the jacket, raincoat or whatever else. And on the bar is the word BULL etched into it.

I remember when I was made the "Bull" by our X.O. at the Philadelphia Naval Hospital before Christmass in December '84.
Held onto the rank for an extra 3 weeks (the C.O. and the X.O. were on leave when my paperwork was completed for my promotion to j.g.).
Since nobody was in authority to "promote" me to O-2, I was stuck with that monster butter bar until he got back from leave and somebody told him that I hadn't been promoted or pinned.

The S.O.B caught me in the hallway outside the quarterdeck (or what passed for a quarterdeck in a hospital setting) and wrote me up for being out of uniform (didn't say a word otherwise; I just thought "Huh???).

When I showed up at Mast that afternoon he tossed me my silver bar in front of everybody (no congratulations;no pinning; no handshake) and said I should have done this myself 3 weeks ago.

I kept my thoughts to myself (it's never appropriate to correct the CO at his Captain's Mast), Stood at attention, said "Thank You, Sir", unpinned the Bull insignia and tossed it back to him.

He in turn lobbed it like a hot potato to the next, poor dumb slob in the room and called him on the carpet for being out of uniform, too.

Long story short, both of us had to buy rounds for the senior officers in the room who were laughing at us for being "a poor excuse for a junior officer, out of uniform and setting a lousy leadership example to his enlisted staff".

Needless to say, he may have had a point.

My first 2 paychecks of the year had the correct pay rate on it while nobody had bothered to "officially" promote me.

Met several Ensigns that were full of Bull.

quote:

Originally posted by WestpacWillie:
Met several Ensigns that were full of Bull.

LMAO!

We used to call them Baby Zero's

I was my unit's Bull. I was also a Mustang, having served several years as a FMF corpsman. It wasn't so bad, but it got tiresome, especially the Joke of the Day. It got to where I would get the nastiest, raunchiest joke I could muster. After a month or two, they stopped having me tell the JOD. Also, I usually just wore my "top three" ribbons, so I looked pretty fresh. Imagine the command's suprise when, during the first inspection, I showed up with several rows of ribbons, far more than 80% of the unit. After a few months, they just let me be.

To be honest In-sanes never bothered me much. What really scared me were the freshly minted "almost" Lt's. Dangrous in any situation and at any speed.

A quiet Friday afternoon, maybe time to re-post this little training aid that was in circulation and common to both sea services a while back.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MastersMate,

quote:

Originally posted by RiverRat139:
To be honest In-sanes never bothered me much. What really scared me were the freshly minted "almost" Lt's. Dangrous in any situation and at any speed.

I took to calling a few of ours "Ensign Senior Grade"

Masters-been a while since I saw that.

quote:

Originally posted by catherine0830:

quote:

Originally posted by RiverRat139:
To be honest In-sanes never bothered me much. What really scared me were the freshly minted "almost" Lt's. Dangrous in any situation and at any speed.

I took to calling a few of ours "Ensign Senior Grade"

Masters-been a while since I saw that.

Nice shot Catherine, I like that one

Gee, I would like to hear you tell a Mustang, (who is a Bull Ensign) that he's full of bull to his face and see who laughs last.

(Most) Mustangs I delt with in my time in the Navy were light years ahead of the Mk1 Mod1 Ensigns, Bull or otherwise, that I remember.

I would hope that we all understand my comments are made in jest. I did not intend to initiate class warfare.

I recently had to do some admin queries with an old Team Mate, now a RAdm. He told me he could make excellent recall of our "old days" as he was the George of the Team at the time. He took great pride today in his latter role as the Team George.

All of us started at the bottom. And with the bottom roles down the adventures that we now look back upon with some humor and part of our learning curve.

We had our squadron Bull Ensign who had just reported aboard ship from flight training as a Naval Flight Officer....We had a lot of fun with him and our Chiefs were in on it too--like sending him down to the mess decks to obtain 50 feet of chow line, retrieve the keys to EA-6B, bureau number 160790 from Maintenance Control (there's no such thing)--Our Maintenance Control Senior Chief had a blast with that one--he told him that the keys were lost--Oh, No, what are we going to do?????!!!! Or maybe he told him to "get lost"--I'm not sure which.....

I have had the honor of holding the offices of Boot Ensign and Bull Ensign. As boot, I was regarded as "just better than dirt" by everyone in the battalion (Seabees), and was given the honor of caring for and carrying the Battalion boot. The boot must be inspection-ready at all times. It was the duty of every self-respecting Chief "help" me with the care of it. As a non-prior Ensign, carrying the boot around was extremely helpful in getting to know the guys. Seabees who would otherwise avoid an officer will come and talk to me about the boot.

As Bull Ensign, it was my solemn duty and obligation to mentor all Ensigns, especially on the care of the Boot. Sadly, it was on my watch as the Bull Ensign when the Boot Ensign lost the Boot. The Boot was eventually returned to its rightful caretaker with "CHIEF SELECTS CLASS OF XX" beautifully carved on it.