I've been watching a lot of old westerns lately, and most of the Cavalry troopers in them are wearing white stetson? Is this correct for the Indian Wars period or just something done for the movies?

THE UNITED STATES CAVALRY - AN ILLUSTRATED HISTORY (1983) by Gregory J.W. Urwin, shows Cavalrymen during the Indian Wars wearing hats of dark blue, gray, and tan (called "drab"). I don't see any white hats. Apparently, uniform regulations weren't strictly enforced & a lot of private purchase (civilian) clothing items, including straw hats, were worn while campaigning, by both officers & enlisted men. I'll keep looking & will post more if I find it.

The Tan hats were bleached by the sun.

quote:

Originally posted by HwkDriver:
I've been watching a lot of old westerns lately, and most of the Cavalry troopers in them are wearing white stetson? Is this correct for the Indian Wars period or just something done for the movies?

That is totally all Hollywood BOGUS C@#p!!!..

I have a number of book titles at home in addition to that which Long Thrust just provided. They all have excellent B&W pictures of the time which show what the Cavalry Trooper and the Infantry of the time wore..

If I could, I would dig up Director John Ford's bones and burn them.

Not many folks know it, but there was more Infantry stationed in the west than Cavalry. Infantry didn't cost as much to sustain.. And actually when on the march during "campaigning" the Legs could cover just as much ground a day as the Cavalry... Let me know...I'll post some titles for you. A great read about day to day life is “Forty Miles a Day on Beans and Hay”. If you want those book titles let me know… Oh BTW, I have two McClellan saddles setting in my living room right now… One was used at the “Little Big Horn” more than once… And at the “Battle of the Rosebud” also.

All of which Long Thrust and Gumby said is totally correct!!

Troopers wore what they had to, to be comfortable while on Campaign. No one went to the field back then, they went on Campaign.

No Cell Phones, No Ipods, Laptops, WHEW!!! how did they ever make it??? Todays Soldiers would not last very long back then. They are way too soft.

HAHA! I was waiting for Buck to square this away!

Thanks Gene,

I just hate F^&ked up S^&t being sustained when it is so horribly inaccurate, that’s all.

At least some of the more recent westerns are way better, “Appaloosa” for example, now that is a spot on Flick!!!!.. Wonderful one liners in it too. I rode in “The Postman” with a fellow by the name of Robert “Bob” Erickson. Now there was Mr. Expert on IWP history. WOW!!!. I rode three years in a row at the L.B.H. with him. He had the look of the epitome of the IWP agate eyed First Sergeant. We all did exactly as he said, or you were 86’d from the Crow reenactment!!! Bob was the technical advisor for the made for TV movie “Buffalo Soldiers”. He was also in “Geronimo” and “The Patriot” and “Ride with The Devil”. His S$%t was rock solid!!!. On historical reference, he was PRIMO.. He could ride like you could not believe too. His old big black roman nosed horse was a Campaigning S.O.B. let me tell you!!! He was a former Marine, Served in the Battleship Wyoming right after WWII. And an expect machinist too. He showed us a perfectly made ¼ scale Ruger MkI pistol he made, it even had little tiny brass rod cartridges. When we rode with Bob in “The Postman” he was in his high 70s, He had a grip like steel and a physique that men under 30 would be impressed with. A master saddler too. Sorry I have rambled on so.

Hey message me with your e-mail again ok Gene???... I need to give you some info. If you don't mind.. Anytime you want to shoot some black power cartridge, let me know..
I have plenty of 45-70 BP ammo left over from doing staff ride support.

And Gene, my Old Rifle Team Pard’ Ron wants to meet you. Heck the two of you have probably already shot together at Smoky Point.

Message me if you feel like it..

PS, when on campaign, always remember to save the last bullet for yourself... Or better yet, just fight the good fight down to the last cartridge like First Sergeant James Butler did. He was the First Sergeant of L Co. 7th U.S. Cavalry.

XXX...http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pickensarchive/custer.html...XXX

I always made it a point to visit his death maker when riding "down range" on my little war horse in the "Maneuver box" up medicine tail coulee. When his body was discovered, after the Battle of the LBH, he had not been scalped or disfigured. His body was surrounded by empty 45-55-405 cartridge cases.
Boots & Saddles & GARRYOWEN!!!!

V/R

Wm. M. "Buck" Davis
Private, Infantry
Co. G, 16th Alabama Regiment
C.S.A.

Message out, Buck.

So where did the standard of black cav stetsons we have now come from then??

The Cav Store

quote:

Originally posted by azmax64:
The Cav Store

My personal hero.

I'd go with any of Fredrick Remington's 1870 era paintings as pretty good proof - -

Anybody who has been out West here in the hot sun in summer would know why the dark colored hats of back east got traded for the lighter natural tan or grey ones - -

quote:

Originally posted by ModernMinuteman:
So where did the standard of black cav stetsons we have now come from then??

I think that was a creation of the Air Cavalry back in Viet Nam.

Which is ok and that has morphed into what all Modern Cavalry Troopers wear today. Which is ok too.

But a Garth Brooks black cowboy hat with modern Cav brass pinned on the front will get you pretty much 86'd from a realistic IWP reenactment. The yellow hat cord and yellow scarf will get you 86'd also..



Circa 2003, near the LBH river, and the ford at Medicine Tail Coulee.

Would that be an Arrow Shirt?

sorry, couldn't resist.

I have 2 photographs of a trooper from Troop M, 8th Cavalry dated May 1898. In both he is wearing a light colored stetson style hat.

My dad wears dark colored western style hats while working cattle out here in the western US in the hot summer sun working cattle ! I prefer straw vs. wool felt in summer but if its all I got I prolly wear it.

I just took the plunge into Cowboy Action Shooting. I've got a nice, tan Stetson. I was going to get an acorn hat cord (infantry blue), but I've come up with another idea. I had to put my 33 year old gelding down this past summer. I saved a big hank of his tail hair. I'm trying to come up with a plan to make some of it into a portion of a hat band.

On another note, when I deployed in 2005, my wife went out and cut hairs from all of our horses tails, and braided it onto a split ring for me. I carried that thing with me on all of my missions in Iraq and Afghanistan. It started coming loose, and I had to field expedient fix it with OD 100mph tape. One of my prized possesions.

On trying to find some pictures of Brigadier General Crook’s “Starvation March” Campaign, or aka “the Horsemeat March" I found the below link.

XXX…http://www.archives.gov/research/american-west/…XXX

Scroll down and under the title of: Soldiering in the West,look at the numbers as in:

49. Gen. Crook's headquarters
53. Execution of a soldier of the 8th Infantry
57. Troop`C,' 5th Cavalry,
And my favorite:
63. The Good Old Days-canteen at Ft. Keogh, Mont., 1890-94

I’ll see if I can find more and I’ll post some book titles for those that are interested.

Now are you all ready to go on campaign? Or I should ask are you tough enough to go on campaign.????

Don't forget that the Army in general went to the brown "Campaign Hat" somewhere during the Spanish/American War to Philippine Insurrection and Mexican Expeditionary period . . .

And it became the Standard Issue for WW I - -

Gen. Pershing and Capt. Patton reviewing the troops during that era - -



The Campaign Hat:

The name started to be used after the 1872–1876 regulations which introduced a black felt hat — which could be drab after 1883 — for fatigue use derived from the types popularized during the American Civil War. During the Spanish–American War the standard central crease on the crown was found to be impractical as it tended to hold the rainwater from the frequent tropical downpours. Many soldiers reshaped the crown to form a pinched "Montana peak." The army officially adopted the peaked design in 1911.

Through the World War I era, the campaign hat worn by American soldiers was fairly soft. Those worn by the United States Army's General officers had a golden cord around it, whereas other Commissioned officers had a golden-and-black cord around their hat.

Most soldiers of that era purchased thier own hats privatly. The troops at the little big horn wore the model 1872 hat. They were the poorest excuse for a uniform item the army made. After two or three drenchings in the rain the 6" brim would be down over thier eyes. Many troopers would buy a hat on thier own. In the book previously mentioned on PG.144 is a picture of 25 officers of the 5th CAV. No two of them has the same hat. This book also states that in 1871 the Secratery of war authorised the troops in texas to wear straw hats and white trousers. This edict was broadened to inclued any and all garrisons south of washington D.C.. The uniform was changed in1879.81, 83 & 85. In 85 the first Tan (DRAB HATS) were issued. We should all remember that the army was very lax on regulations conserning uniforms in the field. Wool and wood or leather don't mix. many troopers had thier butts hanging out of thier pants after a long campaign. That was the reasoon for them sewing the canvas to thier isseue pants.

quote:

Originally posted by ordmate:
The troops at the little big horn wore the model 1872 hat..

Ordmate,

They had the new Model 1876 black campaign hat also, black wool with a short brim. One of my books says it was only good for 30 days or so on the campaign trail, then it pretty much feel apart.