Greetings all!

I am not here to stir up a hornet's nest...I really just need to understand what others went thru, why so much hatred and animosity towards Jane Fonda..(although, I did manage to read some things that were not so wonderful about what she did during the 1960's and the war as well as totally going against all Americans and POW'S and siding with the Vietnamese..(some of what snopes.com said on their site was that Jane did not do everything that was reported in the news..and that she has since apologized for her lack of intelligence...and impulsivities..etc...
or stupidity during those times...

My hubby who is a vet, hates her with a strong vengance...and says that he knew some soldiers then who were POW'S and were hurt by the things that she did...He hates her so much..that he likens this to my extreme hatred of what the Nazi's did to so many innocent lives!!!
He will NOT allow any of her movies in our house..(I have one..and I had better get it out, quickly!!) He is THAT extremely angry for all of the commotion and troubles that she has brought upon the Americans being held and or tortured during those times..and that because she sided with the Vietnamese pretty much...that is another thorn in the side..as well!

I want to know if you would ever forgive her...(as in that she did profusely apologize to many POW's who I believe have accepted her apologies..) and she really meant that she should not have stuck her nose in that area...that she actually had had some false write ups about her..which were NOT true about what she had done during those times...and that she thoughtlessly had carried thru with impulsive actions which she later said she was sooo sorry for doing in the first place!

Could you ever forgive or not?
She was a LOT younger then...and perhaps she really means what she has apologized for?

What do you all think...I really want your take on this...I have been very curious about this for a long time..I was a baby boomer...and I only remember seeing the war on t.v. but, I was too young at the time..to know all of what was happening..to understand it all!
Can you explain why or why not you might be able to excuse or forgive her...and if not..why not?


thanks!

tbirdz888

Ask yourself if you would feel the same if it was George Clooney or Brad Pitt and Bin Laden. Then once their careers start tanking, they come back and say "sorry". Some "hurts" just don't go away with a simple apology especially when money is involved.

quote:

Originally posted by OldGuy54:
Some "hurts" just don't go away with a simple apology especially when money is involved.....

.....but some do, especially when enough money is involved. Read "Flyboys" by Bradley (who also wrote "Flags of Our Fathers") to see what animals the Japanese truly were. Executions, mutilations, and cannibalism just to name a few. And yet I have a Toyota Sequoia and a Honda CRV. And of course, every piece of electronics in your home is made with Japanese components and technology.

I despise Jane Fonda as well, but she is orders of magnitude removed from our Japanese "friends", many of whom never apologized at all.

It's called selective memory I suppose.

AND, for some reason, our Soldiers and Sailors who were used, and abused, as slaves laborers by Japanese companies, are prohibitted from suing for reparations.

quote:

Originally posted by OldArmyWOPA:
I don’t like the what the Japanese did at Pearl Harbor or during WW2 but that was a long time ago and now I drive a Subaru.

But it was NOT "a long time ago" in the 1950's and 60's when Honda, et al, came to the US - which is precisely my point. Selective memory. Nazis aren't so bad when we need them for our space program, and Japanese are OK when they help our economy. Both became useful to us.

Jane's problem is that she served no useful purpose then, and still doesn't. She married into more money than all of us combined will ever see, so I guess the joke's on us - but it's hard to be a protester while carrying a Gucci bag. Even so, she ranks higher on my list than does LBJ, RMN and Mac.

quote:

Originally posted by gumbydammit:
AND, for some reason, our Soldiers and Sailors who were used, and abused, as slaves laborers by Japanese companies, are prohibitted from suing for reparations.

And, do not forget the Koreans who worked for the Japanese in SE Asia and on the Pacific Islands. They could be especially brutal; no compensation and it officially never happened.

Why do you care? I mean really. Are you related to her? She's a traitor and once a traitor always a traitor. Because of her american soldiers died! Period. Enough said.

quote:

Originally posted by 16185255:
Why do you care? I mean really. Are you related to her? She's a traitor and once a traitor always a traitor. Because of her american soldiers died! Period. Enough said.

You talk as if you were around at the time. Sorry, but you weren't there.

Because of her american soldiers died! Please cite your sources for this often heard statement. Actually, I'll save you the effort.

http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp

Furthermore, the utter fallacy of the "once a traitor" logic is precisely what several people here (myself included) are trying to point out regarding how we treated the Japanese and Germans that we needed after WWII. Get a clue here, NASA was built and staffed by "traitors" and literally hundreds of Japanese and German companies (Porsche for example) built machines of various kinds that actually did kill Americans.

Or, if that concept escapes you, here's one slightly closer to home: IBM was involved in virtually every aspect of the Third Reich’s operations. The company leased, serviced and upgraded more than 2,000 IBM multi-machine sets throughout Germany, and thousands more throughout Nazi occupied Europe. IBM developed custom-designed cards used by the Nazis; with as many as 1.5 billion punch cards being produced in Germany annually. So, by your own logic, where is your outrage about IBM then? So, I'm perfectly fine with Jane Fonda burning in hell. But she sure better have a lot of company in that case.

Why do I care? Because I prefer discussing the facts as opposed to someone trying to lecture me about things they know absolutely nothing about. Period. Enough said.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: O4Psyoper,

quote:

Originally posted by O4Psyoper:

quote:

Originally posted by 16185255:
Why do you care? I mean really. Are you related to her? She's a traitor and once a traitor always a traitor. Because of her american soldiers died! Period. Enough said.

You talk as if you were around at the time. Sorry, but you weren't there.

Because of her american soldiers died! Please cite your sources for this often heard statement. Actually, I'll save you the effort.

http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp

Furthermore, the utter fallacy of the "once a traitor" logic is precisely what several people here (myself included) are trying to point out regarding how we treated the Japanese and Germans that we needed after WWII. Get a clue here, NASA was built and staffed by "traitors" and literally hundreds of Japanese and German companies (Porsche for example) built machines of various kinds that actually did kill Americans.

Or, if that concept escapes you, here's one slightly closer to home: IBM was involved in virtually every aspect of the Third Reich’s operations. The company leased, serviced and upgraded more than 2,000 IBM multi-machine sets throughout Germany, and thousands more throughout Nazi occupied Europe. IBM developed custom-designed cards used by the Nazis; with as many as 1.5 billion punch cards being produced in Germany annually. So, by your own logic, where is your outrage about IBM then? So, I'm perfectly fine with Jane Fonda burning in hell. But she sure better have a lot of company in that case.

Why do I care? Because I prefer discussing the facts as opposed to someone trying to lecture me about things they know absolutely nothing about. Period. Enough said.

Heres a problem with this line of though. The Nazis in our space program and the Knights of Bushido who went on to get rich selling us little cars did not commit treason. Dont know about you, but I for one consider getting stabbed in the back by someone under your own roof worse than the person who goes into a fight and throws sucker punches.

Oh, and as to IBM. Did they do all this after December 1941? My guess is they did not.

Double post - sorry.

quote:

Originally posted by O4Psyoper:

quote:

Originally posted by 300_Spartans:
Oh, and as to IBM. Did they do all this after December 1941? My guess is they did not.

Having worked for IBM for 32 years, this is one subject I am somewhat familiar with. IBM's founder, Tom Watson, actually received an award personally from Hitler. Yes, he did return it in the late 1930's, but the profits kept rolling in throughout the war.

The U.S. State Department promised to renew its efforts to obtain all the materials IBM archived during its period of apparent complicity with the Nazi regime from 1933 to 1945.

IBM USA records demonstrate that as late as mid-1943, Watson still held the majority of shares in IBM's German subsidiary.

As explained in an 1944 interview: "all the head men in [IBM Germany's] employ are businessmen first and foremost. As such, and in view of the close connection between their concern and IBM, they are internationally-minded, and very much opposed to the ruinous business policies of the Nazi regime."

"Ruinous business policies of the Nazi regime"? I rank this as one of the greatest understatements of the 20th Century.

Also, for those interested, this all came out in 2001 due to this book on the subject. Up to that time, no one I knew had ever heard of this. To say it was a closely held subject is also an understatement.

Jane Fonda's actions gave much encouragement to our enemies. Did you ever think of what that might do in a conflict?

Consider the leaps and bounds media technology has progressed since the 1960s. We have the internet, CNN and Fox reporting in real time, and wireless communications.

Don't think for a second that our "primitive" enemies can't and don't exploit this. They've beheaded captives whom they call "infidels" and have sent the images straight to the web.

I have the utmost respect for Vietnam veterans and have them in my family. But I hold Jane Fonda and her "free love" contemporaries solely responsible for many of the social problems that we are left to deal with today. She and her kind acted irresponsibly and carelessly. They encouraged our enemies. I boycott her movies the same way I avoid Matt Damon and George Clooney's.

When you have fame and money, you can afford to act that way.

We can forgive Jane Fonda, but we can't condone that behavior when we are actively engaging an enemy and American lives are at stake.

quote:

Originally posted by O4Psyoper:

quote:

Originally posted by O4Psyoper:

quote:

Originally posted by 300_Spartans:
Oh, and as to IBM. Did they do all this after December 1941? My guess is they did not.

Having worked for IBM for 32 years, this is one subject I am somewhat familiar with. IBM's founder, Tom Watson, actually received an award personally from Hitler. Yes, he did return it in the late 1930's, but the profits kept rolling in throughout the war.

The U.S. State Department promised to renew its efforts to obtain all the materials IBM archived during its period of apparent complicity with the Nazi regime from 1933 to 1945.

IBM USA records demonstrate that as late as mid-1943, Watson still held the majority of shares in IBM's German subsidiary.

As explained in an 1944 interview: "all the head men in [IBM Germany's] employ are businessmen first and foremost. As such, and in view of the close connection between their concern and IBM, they are internationally-minded, and very much opposed to the ruinous business policies of the Nazi regime."

"Ruinous business policies of the Nazi regime"? I rank this as one of the greatest understatements of the 20th Century.

Also, for those interested, this all came out in 2001 due to this book on the subject. Up to that time, no one I knew had ever heard of this. To say it was a closely held subject is also an understatement.

Were you at IBM when that story broke? I was I remember the internal memos.

Oh yeah - everyone got the "Lou-gram".

While many of the more extreme actions attributed to 'Hanoi Jane' have been debunked, her 'photo op' on a North Vietnamese antiaircraft gun is undeniable. Her actions with Donald Sutherland and 'The FTA Show' as they attempted to foment dissent at US military bases are also well-documented.

Fonda was a mediocre actress whose best effort at that point had been 'Barbarella'. She willingly offered aid to this country's enemies at the expense of American GIs solely for the notoriety that might rekindle her lackluster career. She has never apologized; she merely offered a feeble excuse for her treasonous actions. In as much as Title 18, USC, lists no statute of limitations for treason. She should still be tried, convicted, and sentenced even today. America has spawned no greater traitor than 'Hanoi Jane'. The actions of Arnold, Burr, and Wilkinson pale in comparison; at least they served before they sold America out.

Some might forget; I won't. Others may forgive; I never will. Until my dying day, I'll willingly stand bare-a$$ed in a blizzard on the end of a five-mile line, solely for the opportunity to pi$$ on that woman's grave!

quote:

Originally posted by FBoehm:
America has spawned no greater traitor than 'Hanoi Jane'.

OK, well I'll see your Jane and raise you two Rosenbergs (Ethel and Julius). You may recall we executed them.

Honestly, my true villains are much higher up the food chain than Jane Fonda. For example - where does LBJ and his phony "Gulf of Tonkin" resolution fall in your hierarchy? To me, that is the root cause of 58,000 names on The Wall. Without LBJ, Mac and RMN - Jane would indeed still be just another mediocre actress, as you correctly said.

I am sorry you asked this question concering Jane Fonda. I understand how your husband, and thousands of others, feel. It is sad to have to use the word "HATE" but it is an appropriate word to use, by many, to describe their feelings towards Jane Fonda. I am 65 years old and 27 years old when I was a 1st. Lt. Infantry, in the U.S. Army. A Rifle Platoon Leader. A college grad and was an enlisted man pior to becoming a commissioned officer. Six years enlisted and proud of my enlisted service.

This was a long and bitter war that divided this country as did our civil war. Divided by the news media and the Hollywood elite. Viet Nam Veterans did not come home to a country that thanked them for their service. No parades. No one greeted us with open arms. For many, the reception was hostile. People threw human excrement at us, rocks, called us names I won't repeat here, treated us less than human and more. Viet Nam Vets had difficulty finding work and in some cases, were met with more anger and hostility attempting to enroll in college
using their G.I. Bill. One disabled vet, a double amputee in a wheel chair, was thrown out of his wheel chair while attempting to enroll in front of Mid-Western College admissions office. I won't go futher, you can read more and hear from other vets to get a real flavor of the period and time in history.

Jane Fonda had a right to protest the Viet Nam War. She went too far. She not only protested, she went to North Viet Nam to give aide, comfort and support to the enemy. Was photographed with the NVA on an anti-aircraft gun. She encouraged the shooting down of more American pilots. The killing of more Americans fighting in the south and some will argue, prolonging the war gernerally. Causing the loss of human lives, both American and Vietnamese. If this had happened in World War II, Jane Fonda would have arrested and tried in Federal Court for
"Aiding the Enemey, Treason and other possible war crimes". Instead, many Americans called her a "HERO" while more Americans died in the South and over North Viet Nam.

I am an Infantryman. There only two "Infantry's" in the U.S. Military. You will only find the Infantry in the U.S. Marine Corps and the U.S. Army. We, the Infantry, are brothers of the cloth. We have shed more blood than any other service. We own more white crosses in more cemeteries the world over than and other branch of military sevice. Many believe, and I am one of them, Jane Fonda helped send more Americans to their graves than she helped bring home. She can say she regrets her actions at the time but saying you are sorry will never bring home those husbands, fathers and sons to their families. Her words cannot make the pain and anger go away after all these years. Not all Viet Nam vets feel this way. But the Infanry does. We remember who of us died and why.

Your husband is angry and bitter. Will it go away some day? Sadly, the answer is no! Americans say the war is over. Historians say the war is over. Everyone wants to forget the Viet Nam war because the war is over. It is not over and it will never be over until the last living V.N. Veteran passes on and with him, the memories of this war and people like Jane Fonda who betrayed us.

I hope this response helps you and others understand. You may not agree with this insite but your husband does, all too well. I wish him well hope you both enjoy many years of happiness together inspite of the past. Sincerely, LHB

quote:

Originally posted by O4Psyoper:

quote:

Originally posted by FBoehm:
America has spawned no greater traitor than 'Hanoi Jane'.

OK, well I'll see your Jane and raise you two Rosenbergs (Ethel and Julius). You may recall we executed them.

Honestly, my true villains are much higher up the food chain than Jane Fonda. For example - where does LBJ and his phony "Gulf of Tonkin" resolution fall in your hierarchy? To me, that is the root cause of 58,000 names on The Wall. Without LBJ, Mac and RMN - Jane would indeed still be just another mediocre actress, as you correctly said.

I said 'no greater traitor..'. I didn't say she had no equals. The Rosenburgs had their day in court and were given their due; Jane has yet to receive hers.

I can't agree the 'Gulf of Tonkin Resolution' was phony. The Gulf of Tonkin Incident was, is, and probably always will remain a muddled mess; at it's worst, a complete fabrication and at best' a prime illustration of 'the fog of war'. The resolution, though, was a real as anything our legislators have ever