It's not just about Beirut
By JENNIFER HLAD
Daily News Staff
September 2, 2007

John Selbe still thinks about the bombing of the Marine Corps barracks in Beirut often - especially when his back starts hurting again. But until a few years ago, he didn't know who was responsible for his recurring pain and the deaths of 241 servicemen." There was nobody to point the finger at," he said. Then, in 2003, he read an article in The Daily News. A group of survivors and family members of the fallen had sued the government of Iran for damages, and won.

"I just started calling people," Selbe said.Selbe got involved in a sister case Peterson vs. Islamic Republic of Iran to the original case, and the judge is scheduled to announce Friday how much Iran is liable for. But without action from Congress, Selbe said, it will be an empty promise. Though a previous court decision Flatow v. The Islamic Republic of Iran allows Americans to sue foreign governments if their government is on the list of state sponsors of terrorism, there is no real way to force the government to pay, said Dan Gaskill, the lead attorney in Selbe's case.

The U.S. Treasury has millions in frozen Iranian assets, but no law exists to allow the treasury to pay that money out, Gaskill said. The first time John Selbe was sent to Beirut, he had no idea what he was getting into."I hadn't even heard of Lebanon," he said.

During his two-and-a-half months there in late 1982, he did meet and greets with the press and appeared in dozens of newspapers. One of his Marines was on the cover of Time magazine. The unit returned to the U.S. in December, he said.In the spring of 1983, he left again, this time with the 24th Marine Amphibious Unit. When they arrived, the American Embassy had already been attacked by a suicide bomber.

At first, Selbe and the rest of the engineer platoon trained the Lebanese Army, teaching them basic demolitions and basic land mine warfare. But the training stopped after they started getting fired upon. "We always knew we were vulnerable," Selbe said.

Then a sergeant, Selbe tried to keep his Marines out of the main barracks building as much as possible, he said, rotating them out to other areas when possible. They had served about seven months in Beirut and were scheduled to go home, but the unit slated to replace them was sent to Grenada in mid-October, Selbe said. The 24th MAU's tour was extended another few weeks.The morning of Oct. 23, 1983, Selbe was scheduled for guard duty, but his shift didn't start until 8 a.m. He was awake in his cot on the third floor of the barracks at 6:22 a.m. when a delivery truck drove through the barbed wire fence at the Beirut International Airport, crashed through the gate and smashed into the barracks. "I heard a crash," Selbe remembers.

"Something told me to curl up in a ball." Selbe fell through the floor in the fetal position, landing nearly upside down on the second floor of the building. He was buried underneath a pile of rubble for at least four hours before rescuers were able to get him out. Then, he said, came the "whirlwind of hospitals" in Europe.

After Selbe was rescued, he learned that one of his Marines woke up with the truck's wheel on his chest. The blast had pushed the vehicle carrying the bomb out of the barracks, through a wall and into the area where the Marine was sleeping, Selbe said. He, along with about 14 other members of Selbe's platoon, survived. Selbe's back was injured, and for a while, the left side of his body from the waist up was paralyzed.

"It was like it didn't exist," he said. But he just needed time. He recovered and stayed in the Marine Corps. Two years later he was working in the minefields in Cuba. He retired in 2001 after serving 24 years.And though he kept in touch with other survivors of the bombing, "we never knew who did it," Selbe said. "We've got to make these people pay." After the family of Alisa Flatow won their case against the government of Iran for her death in a bus bombing carried out by Iran in 1995 survivors and families of the servicemen killed in the barracks bombing began asking, "What about our guys?" attorney Gaskill said. The idea behind the Flatow case, Gaskill said, was "terrorism is so cheap.

If it cost them millions of dollars each time an American was killed, maybe it would be better than nothing happening to them."Still, lawyers weren't sure the case would fly, since this time the plaintiffs were U.S. servicemen. But it was a peacekeeping mission, U.S. District Court Judge Royce Lamberth wrote in his opinion. The Marines and other service members "were clearly noncombatants operating under peacetime rules of engagement," he wrote.

During the trial, witnesses described how Hezbollah operated at the time "In the '83 time frame, it was essentially a tool of Iran" and how the type and concentration of explosives found at the site was not manufactured in-side the border of Lebanon at the time, but rather, inside of Iran." These are not things that you just go down to the drug-store and buy a pound of, these are not things [for which] you buy innocuous materials and manufacture in your backyard," an explosives expert testified, according to the judge's opinion. The families affected by the bombing are still feeling the pain, witnesses told the court." The pain does not stop when you bury the dead; it is only the very beginning. We feel this loss over and over and over again.

It does not go away and it does not lessen with time; that is a myth," Lynn Smith, sister of fallen Marine Capt. Vincent Smith, told the court. "Vince would have wanted us to fight. Vince would have said … we must hold these men accountable," she said, according to the court opinion. "We stand together to do what they cannot do for themselves." Unfortunately, Selbe said, there are two more branches of the government to overcome before the victims will see their payback. Until Congress passes a law allowing the victims to collect frozen assets from the U.S. Treasury, the plaintiffs will see nothing, Selbe said. But it is not just about Beirut, he said. Though the bombings in Beirut were among the first suicide bombings designed to kill large groups of people, they weren't the last. Over the years, terrorists "have hidden behind immunity laws," he said. "It was a lot different when 9/11 happened," he said. "How are you supposed to sue Al Qaeda? "But with Beirut and other terrorist acts, there was a government behind it, he said. "The point is, we've got to make these people pay," Selbe said." They can't dodge this bullet forever."

On Aug. 2, 15 senators introduced the Justice for Victims of State Sponsored Terrorism Act to the Senate. It's the third bill of its kind to be introduced. The other two never made it out of committee, Selbe said.The problem, Gaskill said, is the money. The president "has the sole ability to decide issues of foreign diplomacy," Gaskill said. "So by the court making this rule, or the Senate making this rule and the court finding what they found, they don't want anything to infringe upon the president's ability to conduct foreign affairs."But the point of the lawsuit, Gaskill said, is to tell terrorists "every time they blow up an American, they're going to have to pay." "(Legislators) say the money is an important bargaining chip," Gaskill said.

"But if we don't bargain with terrorists, for what do we need a bargaining chip?" Selbe said he and the approximately 50 other North Carolinians involved in the related lawsuits want someone to pay. Being able to sue the government responsible for terrorist acts means nothing if they are not held fiscally responsible, he said. "Somebody, somewhere, someday is going to have to deal with this problem," Selbe said. "They can't dodge this bullet forever."

Check my facts on this.

The way I remember it,

When the 8th Marines went into Beirut, they were commnded by Lt. Col. Garrity. As soon as he got inland, the first thing they did was set up a good defensive parimeter. OPSEC was all the rage, in all the ground units back then. The Marine Barracks area was toured by 5 US Senators, The only two I remember was Ted Kennedy, and John Jenrette. They toured the area, and were apaulled, because it "looked like a war zone." Col. Garrity was ordered by these 5 Senators to "Take down the forifications." He did as dutifully ordered. After the Bombing. the same 5, called for his a** on a plate, to cover thier own. fortunatly, the Commadant refused.
This has always been close to me, as I had tried to "Cross decks" to the 8th, prior to thier shippng out. But for the grace of God, and some admin red tape, I should have been there.

Please fact check this, and let me know if there are inaccruacy. as I want to keep the memory of these Marines as it was.
-Frank

Some history contained HERE.

Another interesting story, or at least to 0351's like me. Talking to a couple of Marines I knew when they got back about the efectiveness of the LAW rocket.

"One night we got a call that a yellow Mercades, had fired on our position. soon, we saw a yellow mercades speeding down the road in front of our position. Since our side of the AO was a free fire zone, we engauged it with small arms fire and LAW rockets. the car went off into the ditch. while we were cheering, another yellow mercades rounds the corner headed past our position. So we engauged it too. After it piled up into the ditch we sat there quitely wondering what to do. then the radio gose off saying that the same car, {Yellow mercades) that shot up the other side of the AO is heading for our position. So we shot at it. the LAW rocket went in the rear fender well, behind the tire. It blew the trunk open, and all this smoke came out. The rest of the night went by quitely."

Back to your original point.
I hope they sue the **** out of Iran, aqnd the state dept. should authorize payment.

And if my first post proves factualy correct, I want to hang those bastards by thier balls!

Sidebar;
Rita Jenrette left the pencildick shorly thereafter, and posed for Playboy. Not a bad spread, either.

-Frank

quote:

Originally posted by fontman:
Some history contained HERE.

Thank you for that link, I don't ever want to forget.

-Frank

unfortunatly i dont think the stage of world politics will ever allow it to happen


and i really hate to go there but its our own governments fault as much as the terrorists who hit us.... they were well aware of the threats yet chose a path that let us remain vulnerable

good luck to em and god bless em

I lost a good friend there...

Frank,
Just a little fact check for you. Colonel Geraghty was the Commander of 24th MAU, the BLT 1/8 CO was Lt. Col. Larry Gerlach (who was seriously wounded but survived the bombing). I have no doubt that immediately after a Congressional visit the Marines might have received some recommendations to reduce the outward appearance of their fortifications....it happened to us before 24th MAU was there, but I don't believe that either Col. Geraghty or Lt. Col. Gerlach actually did such a thing because they were engaged in open combat with the Amal militia by late August 1983.

I do know in speaking with Col. Geraghty, that he encouraged moving more of the H&S and Weapons Company Marines into the building because of the overhead cover the reinforced concrete provided....but he was very concerned about putting so many men in one location.

I will say here just as I have said on the BVA board that I am not in favor of legal actions against Iran or any other foreign entity over this attack because I feel that it will bring countersuits against us from a host of countries or individuals from anywhere we have ever been.....it sets a precedent which could wind up being much more expensive to us than we could imagine!

Semper Fidelis,
Mike

Thanks for setting me straight. My facts, like my memory is slipping.
About the legal issiues. It sounds like you know what you are talking about. However, I understand the frustration of the victims and their families with the inaction of their government. Plus I hope it puts it back in the news, and if it is true, about Kennedy and company, I want it out in the light.

-Frank

At that time we were trying to climb out from the whole VN image of the Marine babykillers and we just wanted to look nice and be nice so our enemies would not hate us so.

VN has shadowed us everytime and all the Liberal BS and Politics comes out to soften up our defenses and curb or offensive attacks.
We always think of how the world thinks, how China thinks about us in Korea, how USSR and China think about us in VN, how USSR thinks of us in peacetime, how Iran thinks of us in nov 4th 1979, what will USSR do? What will we do in all future war and bombings, we will run around and think of what we did wrong and how we can please our enemies not to attack us again.

We live in a big shadow, afraid to step out into the light and fight, to survive and TO HELL with what others think!

Pelosi, Reid, and more that a few others are trying to make shure we relive Veitnam all over again
-Frank

This is Dan Gaskill - the lawyer handling the Beirut case. Let me know if you want any information about the case, want to try to contact any of the survivors or their family members, or just want to say Semper Fi!

For dangaskill1

Wow!

How did you find this topic?

I am a member of the site (USMC 1989-1994).

By the way, this morning Judge Lamberth entered the largest judgment in the history of America against the Iranians. I was there - it was 2.65 Billion - and more to come with some follow up cases!

There were about 300 Beirut families in the room, including Lt. Col. Larry Gehrlach, Col. Gehraty, I saw Capt. Macgroglou's parents, Jeff Nashton, Col. Mike Valore... obviously I can't list them all - but it was amazing.

Let me know if you want to hear about it!

quote:

Originally posted by dangaskill1:
I am a member of the site (USMC 1989-1994).

By the way, this morning Judge Lamberth entered the largest judgment in the history of America against the Iranians. I was there - it was 2.65 Billion - and more to come with some follow up cases!


There were about 300 Beirut families in the room, including Lt. Col. Larry Gehrlach, Col. Gehraty, I saw Capt. Macgroglou's parents, Jeff Nashton, Col. Mike Valore... obviously I can't list them all - but it was amazing.

Let me know if you want to hear about it!

I would like to let them know that we still remember them, and we care.

-Frank, and all Marines everywhere!