expansion of the GI Bill? How about just a resurrection of the original GI Bill and its intentions ( to include inflation)???

Here is what the GI Bill WAS, and should be...
President Franklin D. Roosevelt's Statement
on Signing the G.I. Bill
June 22, 1944

This bill, which I have signed today,
substantially carries out most of the recommendations made by me in a
speech on July 28, 1943, and more
specifically in messages to the
Congress dated October 27, 1943,
and November 23, 1943:


1. It gives servicemen and women the opportunity of resuming their education or technical training after discharge, or of taking a refresher or retrainer course, not only without tuition charge up to $500 per school year (this was more than enough 60 years ago), but with the right to receive a monthly living allowance while pursuing their studies.

2. It makes provision for the guarantee by the Federal Government of not to exceed 50 percent of certain loans made to veterans for the purchase or construction of homes, farms, and business properties.

3. It provides for reasonable unemployment allowances payable each week up to a maximum period of one year, to those veterans who are unable to find a job.

4. It establishes improved machinery for effective job counseling for veterans and for finding jobs for returning soldiers and sailors.

5. It authorizes the construction of all necessary additional hospital facilities.

6. It strengthens the authority of the Veterans Administration to enable it to discharge its existing and added responsibilities with promptness and efficiency.

And thats exactly what the democrats are backing:
"Specifically, it would provide the full cost of tuition and fees, and a living allowance for 36 months of schooling for those who enlist for four years of active duty military service. Right now, the Montgomery GI Bill (MGIB) pays less than two-thirds of the average cost of attending a 4-year public college"
Democratic GI Bill of Rights for the 21st Century
Congressman George Miller

Don't throw out this "liberal" name calling and smear campaign when the republicans aren't backing a bill as generous as the democrats. Youre so quick on your hate that you throw out partisan crap and spin which does nothing but divide our country, not unite it. You completely twisted something right into "unpassable" election circus move. got hope? If thats not "a spin" and an ugly pessimistic spin, I don't know what is.

America is hope, and dreams, and achieving the impossible dream NOT settling for whatever crumbs are thrown from the table because were too pessimistic to believe we can achieve anything better.
I think we should all be proud that America is united in trying to help its veterans. Leave the "liberal" hate for your Fox news calls.
Oh, and worried about where we'll get the money? How about we stop giving huge tax breaks to richest people, and how about we start taxing companies that insist on polluting, and making our homeland unsafe. It would be nice to have that kind of homeland security.

I think the current GI Bill is fine.

crap TOP, YOU still think that the War is worth it. ...But back then they didn't think about the Future for the GI bill....

That is correct mouse, I do still think the war is worth it.

The rhetoric about retention is pure BS...if they want someone to stay longer than their contract they will keep you under stop loss...I think the max they can keep someone on stop loss is over a year, up to two....

I was stop lossed for 367 days past my original 8 year MSO...just over a year....thats why I think the retention part of the argument the republicans/democrats put up is just BS....and a red herring to someone who was stop lossed...



"retention issue".....pfffft

Get rid of silly azzed stop loss policies and maybe I will listen to the retention argument, but right now its just BS......

BTW I used Voc rehab for my MA and got a sweet gov job outta it....

top! you are just one of the few who really believes in it. ..but looking past what already has transpired....in about 2-5 years the whole public well want the troops out...then what...what well we have gained....

quote:

Originally posted by DCT435:
top! you are just one of the few who really believes in it. ..but looking past what already has transpired....in about 2-5 years the whole public well want the troops out...then what...what well we have gained....

Well so far we have gained a few years of no terror attacks on American soil. Not that it wont happen again, but then it will happen again no matter what, all we can do is try our best. And if the election goes to the other party and the war does not end( as I fully expect it will not) I will still serve and if called again, go to Iraq again.

quote:

Originally posted by DCT435:
top! you are just one of the few who really believes in it. ..but looking past what already has transpired....in about 2-5 years the whole public well want the troops out...then what...what well we have gained....

What will be gained will be the same thing that was gained in Vietnam.....Zero. What we did at the end, i.e., bombed the north like what happened in late 72 and 1973 until the POW's were released is what should have been done at the very beginning.
Sadly we lost over 58,000 KIA and thousands WIA before the politicians figured it out. Read McNamaras book about what they knew two years into the war.
If we do not end up with troops in Iraq for the nest 20 years we will certainly be sending boo coo dinero to them. Have a nice day. Semper Fidelis. Blackcoat.

quote:

Originally posted by Blackcoat:

quote:

Originally posted by DCT435:
top! you are just one of the few who really believes in it. ..but looking past what already has transpired....in about 2-5 years the whole public well want the troops out...then what...what well we have gained....

What will be gained will be the same thing that was gained in Vietnam.....Zero. What we did at the end, i.e., bombed the north like what happened in late 72 and 1973 until the POW's were released is what should have been done at the very beginning.
Sadly we lost over 58,000 KIA and thousands WIA before the politicians figured it out. Read McNamaras book about what they knew two years into the war.
If we do not end up with troops in Iraq for the nest 20 years we will certainly be sending boo coo dinero to them. Have a nice day. Semper Fidelis. Blackcoat.

What we were fighting against in VietNam was the expantion of Communism, this is against the expansion of Radical Islam. They are not the same. Why would I read McNamaras book, so that I can have Mac himself explain how it wasnt his fault that he did suck a shiatty job of running the war. I would put McNamara and Rumsfield in the same catagory of shiattyness.

We most likely will end up with troops on the ground for at least the next 20 years, why would Iraq be any different than all the other shiatholes we have to fight in, we still have troops on the ground in all those other locations. I'm not sure why Iraq would be any different?

All that is being gained is time. This is a lose lose situation for us, no matter what we do. If we fight them, they hate us and try to thing up new and creative ways to kill us, if we dont fight them they will still hate us and try to think up new and creative ways to kill us. If we go back to being isolationist, they will try to kill us.

In fact, someone tell me a scenario in which we can do something that will stop the radical muslim sect from wanting and trying to kill us(short of converting to muslim)

So in my simple Marine mind( and yes it is simple, thats why I am artillery) I am fv cked either way and if that is the case I choose to go down fighting.

1stSgt

quote:

They are not the same

They are the same in one area you might come
home in a body bag. I think the Webb bill is
right on the money plus 16% loss projected retention rate could be made up by those seeking
the full beneifits.

quote:

Originally posted by woodsjim:

quote:

They are not the same

They are the same in one area you might come
home in a body bag. I think the Webb bill is
right on the money plus 16% loss projected retention rate could be made up by those seeking
the full beneifits.

Or I could just stay home and wait for them to come to me and put me in a body bag, again I prefer to fight.

I dont doubt that the GI Bill could be revamped, anyone who has had to go through the hassle of getting your money from the GI Bill, knows the process itself is a pain in the butt. I just dont trust politicians and I do not trust Jim Webb, he is a politicians politician.

Yep lstSgt I agree with you. The VA is a mine
field but we need to make a path through it.
Politician can't be trusted so what new?

The VA rep at my school has made the process a breeze. I just give her my registration and bam I get my money 10 weeks later.

Alot easier then getting simple things done with the s1 at my unit.

gained is time....yup! this is a lose, lose situation...yup! the USA can't kill them all...so instead of feeding the sharks...lets throw our troops a life preserver and get the hell out...."the USA stepped into a world of s hit with this one"...and them azz holes don't and NEVER will conform to the western way of life...

quote:

Originally posted by DCT435:
gained is time....yup! this is a lose, lose situation...yup! the USA can't kill them all...so instead of feeding the sharks...lets throw our troops a life preserver and get the hell out...."the USA stepped into a world of s hit with this one"...and them azz holes don't and NEVER will conform to the western way of life...

Again mouse, I prefer to fight and not hide my head in the sand, I am a volunteer just like all my brothers. We prefer to fight, not hide behind the skirts of our womenfolk. Those raghead biches started this shiat, I only hope we are man enough to finish it.

lets see...I am for the removal of our troops....NO more targets for the terrorist...While YOU are for fighting them there and providing targets...oh if you don't know...I Enlisted in 1969 knowing that I might end up in Vietnam...and I did...no difference between us there......psst just how many terrorist have the US killed while there...and is there an end to them...

You are for removal of the troops....NO more targets for the terrorist, then you ask how many terrorist have the US killed while there? Im confused. It sounds as if you are saying that there are no terrorist for us to kill over there and also saying troops are being killed by terrorist all in the same post? Would this be having your cake and eating it too?

Also from the tone of your post, when you say "I am for the removal of the troops....NO more targets for the terrorist" that what you mean is by removing the troops from over there, then Americans will stop being killed by terrorist? Is that what you mean?

A more direct answer to your question is, we have killed thousands upon thousands of terrorist over there and unless we wipe a few countrys, then no there is not and end it sight. So in the meantime we either continue to fight the best we can..........or we tuck tail and come home, hunker down and hope for the best. Again, I choose to fight. You go ahead and hunker down.

this has gone off topic...and for that I am sorry...

quote:

Originally posted by 1stSgtD0811:

quote:

Originally posted by Blackcoat:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DCT435:
top! you are just one of the few who really believes in it. ..but looking past what already has transpired....in about 2-5 years the whole public well want the troops out...then what...what well we have gained....

What will be gained will be the same thing that was gained in Vietnam.....Zero. What we did at the end, i.e., bombed the north like what happened in late 72 and 1973 until the POW's were released is what should have been done at the very beginning.
Sadly we lost over 58,000 KIA and thousands WIA before the politicians figured it out. Read McNamaras book about what they knew two years into the war.
If we do not end up with troops in Iraq for the nest 20 years we will certainly be sending boo coo dinero to them. Have a nice day. Semper Fidelis. Blackcoat.

What we were fighting against in VietNam was the expantion of Communism, this is against the expansion of Radical Islam. They are not the same. Why would I read McNamaras book, so that I can have Mac himself explain how it wasnt his fault that he did suck a shiatty job of running the war. I would put McNamara and Rumsfield in the same catagory of shiattyness.
------------------------------------------------

1stSgtD0811. If, as you state, we were in Vietnam to stop the expansion of communism why is it that both North and South Vietnam are presently in the hands of communists? Perhaps that is the reason at the beginning but in reality the people there are worse off now than before we spent tons of money, over 58,000 dead and thousands of civilians killed. Semper Fidelis. Blackcoat

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Blackcoat,

Ok, from reading the last couple of posts I see that the thread has degenerated into something retarded. I will not read the entire list of posts from start to finish because I really don't care. I came to post my 2 cents that you old farts may or may not give a flying **** at a rolling donut about.

I read enough to see that the reason Bush veto'd the new GIBILL proposition was the fact that it had too many earmarks or other things that washington politif@gs do to kill something that they don't want passed.

Also, the DoD's whine-fest about not passing it because it would hurt retention absolutely disgusts me. It really does. Someone at the Pentagon needs a punch in the mouth and a serious wake-up call. I cannot even fathom such a chicken-sh*t excuse for not providing such a bad-azz benefits package for vets. For the record, I have used up my GI Bill so I do not benefit in anyway from this thing ultimately passing/failing.

This package has the potential to get nearly every vet a college education in a world where a high school diploma is nearly worthless. Hell, the 4-year degree is almost becoming standard to put salt on the fries at McD's. Its sad but true. A Master's degree is fast becoming the bachelor's of the 70's and 80's.

The Gov't can debate the damn thing all they want, but in the end its the right thing to do. Not that politicians use morality other than a leveraging tool to get what they want, but it still should matter to all the mom, pops, and little timmys out there in the real man's world.

Fuck you.
Rant off.

quote:

For the record, I have used up my GI Bill so I do not benefit in anyway from this thing ultimately passing/failing.

Same here....

quote:

Someone at the Pentagon needs a punch in the mouth and a serious wake-up call.

quote:

A Master's degree is fast becoming the bachelor's of the 70's and 80's.

Yep, why I'm in school now..lol done in 8 weeks...MA in Political Science.

but yeah, the retention issue is piss poor considering they have a stop loss policy on the books....

quote:

but it still should matter to all the mom, pops, and little timmys out there in the real man's world

It matters to timmy.


Source:http://pics.soohrt.org

Well in reality I think the GI Bill should be revamped to just cover college period, no set dollar amount. You serve 4+ years in the military, you get free college, keep it simple. The only reason I even bothered to offer any counter argument is because I think Jim Webb is a c vnt and mouse is on the other side of the taint.

Just pay for vets college you stupid dirty politicians and stop playing the patriotism card, stupid dirty f vcks.

I received $321.00 a month and college in the California State system was free to residents. The G.I. bill was extended to 5 years paid benefits for Vietnam Vets. I was solicited by a peer counselor from El Camino Junior College that let me know that I had to use it or lose it within 10 years of discharge.

I had no idea. I used all 5 years and I wish I had bothered to at least commit to memory the name of the cute little blonde that walked me through everything.

Thanks kid, it served me well!

Give 'em whatever it takes.

I worked full time nights and went 12 credit hours a semester and both summer school sessions for 5 full years.

No regrets.

I encourage and support anything that will educate anyone that served their country, particularly during times many would say were best forgotten.

Semper Fidelis